The Falwells (et al)

[C0LLETTE]

Don't you think that telling Falwell that he will have redemption and a place in Heaven if he just says he's sorry is asking for trouble?

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Don't you think that telling Falwell that he will have redemption and a place in Heaven if he just says he's sorry is asking for trouble?

This mindset in Christians is hilarious to me because Sola Fide does not mean what Evangelicals think it means. We can be saved by "faith alone," not because faith is enough, but because salvation is a bigger gift than a human could earn from God.

Sola Fide is not a get out of Hell free card, it is a reminder that God is too great to do business with us. There is nothing we could offer him that he needs. But people persist in making the relationship transactional and believe thier prosperity means they are getting it right.

[C0LLETTE]

I'm not a Christian and this is difficult for me to wrap my head around.
Does the "misunderstanding' begin with Jesus and where does this leave Christians?
Is salvation yours no matter what you do as long as you believe in God, or even if you don't?

I realize "religion" is a very delicate subject and I mean no offence by my question. I really am interested.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

I'm not a Christian and this is difficult for me to wrap my head around.
Does the "misunderstanding' begin with Jesus and where does this leave Christians?
Is salvation yours no matter what you do as long as you believe in God, or even if you don't?

I realize "religion" is a very delicate subject and I mean no offence by my question. I really am interested.

Lol I can talk about religion all day!

Jesus is actually very clear on this, the entire Sola Fide doctrine comes from the Epistles, which were written after Jesus was dead.

The doctrine itself teaches that the get out of Hell free card only works if one's Christian faith is sincerely held. And Jesus teaches that most of the people who think they are Christians will not be recognized at the Pearly Gates. Most people's faith will be revealed as insincere and they'll have to get on the down elevator.

ALSO Jesus says that a sincerely held faith will manifest in the fruits of the spirit: charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity (kindness), goodness, longanimity (forbearance), mildness (gentleness), faith, modesty, continency (self-control), and chastity.

So, even though you can't earn salvation by doing virtuous things, your salvation with make you virtuous automatically, and you'll do virtuous things anyway.

Jerry is not manifesting many fruits, so his card probably won't work.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Is salvation yours no matter what you do as long as you believe in God, or even if you don't?

The Catholic church does have some wiggle room for those who don't believe, especially for those who die in uncontacted regions (unlike the Baptists, who like to force contact with primitive tribes and give them germs.)

This is why Catholics have Limbo and Purgatory. Those are for people who did not get a chance to become Christians, through no fault of their own. Jesus cleared out Limbo and Purgatory on His way to Heaven after the Crucifixion. Prophecy says he will clear them out again at the Apocalypse.

My opinion is that people do not actually choose belief. Delusions and denial are permeable, it's actually very difficult to consciously decide you are going to believe something or not believe it.

You can absolutely be someone who has decided to reject church and faith, but never fully extinguished the spark, deep down. Those people are still saved.

[C0LLETTE]

You can absolutely be someone who has decided to reject church and faith, but never fully extinguished the spark, deep down. Those people are still saved.[/QUOTE]

Not being smart ass, but what could you do that wont get you saved?

This is all new to me and I thank you . I'm enjoying the learning experience.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

You can absolutely be someone who has decided to reject church and faith, but never fully extinguished the spark, deep down. Those people are still saved.

Not being smart ass, but what could you do that wont get you saved?

This is all new to me and I thank you . I'm enjoying the learning experience.[/QUOTE]

Hypocrisy, arrogance, WEALTH!

[C0LLETTE]

Well, that rules out all organized religions.
Maybe the Sadhus can make it through.

[~ocean]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

Not being smart ass, but what could you do that wont get you saved?

This is all new to me and I thank you . I'm enjoying the learning experience.

Hypocrisy, arrogance, WEALTH![/QUOTE]

lol you just described TRUMP ~ but you knew that lol ^ 5