Politics-What's on your mind?

Cin · 11-12-2020, 12:16 PM

What is on my mind (and has been on my mind a lot since this endless election counting began) is what it might mean that over 72 million Americans voted for Trump to be the US President for another 4 years. They came out in droves to support him. It was mostly white people of course, although 34% of Asian voters, 32% of Latinx voters, 13% of black voters, and 41% of other voters chose Trump. I assume non white voters support Trump and the Republican party for tax reasons, fiscally conservative reasons, and/or socially conservative/religious reasons. However I don't believe those are the primary motivators for white republicans any longer, if they ever were. And any non white American supporting Donald Trump needs to understand this, anyone with a soul needs to understand this regardless of anything else. Although I suppose people could understand this completely and just not care. It does seem an odd thing not to care about, but then so is a pandemic and plenty of people don't seem to care about that. But to get back on track, 1972 was the year the Republicans succeeded with their Southern strategy and they have never looked back. I personally believe religious zeal drives many Republicans, but I also think nothing is as important as white nationalism. Here is an interesting article that speaks to this issue.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/20...-get-better-us

Things May Get Worse Before They Get Better for the U.S.

For many, Trump’s ouster is a relief. But his steadfast support among white voters puts his party on a crash course with democracy.

byWalden Bello

I’m one of those kibitzers who supported Joe Biden reluctantly from a distance, mainly because I felt that for both the U.S. and the world, he was the lesser evil. And like many, I breathed a sigh of relief when Biden crossed the 270 electoral vote marker.

Then the political sociologist in me took over as I looked at the electoral breakdown by race.

The electoral coalition that was behind Biden’s win was a minority of whites (42 percent, most likely the people with more years in school), the vast majority of Black voters (87 percent), and a big majority of Latinx voters (66 percent) and Asian American voters (63 percent).Whites make up around over 65 percent of the electorate of the US. Surveys show that 57 percent of white voters (56 percent women, 58 percent men) went for Trump, despite everything—his awful mismanagement of the pandemic, his lies, his anti-science attitude, his divisiveness, and his blatant pandering to white nationalist groups like the Nazis, Klan, and Proud Boys.

Trump’s support among whites was essentially the same as in 2016, with support from women rising to make up for a slight decline in that of men. White solidarity continues to be disturbingly strong, and, more than opposition to taxes, opposition to abortion, and unqualified defense of the market, it is now the defining ideology of the Republican Party.

How did the party of Abraham Lincoln, author of the Emancipation Proclamation, become so completely opposite of what he stood for?

The Party of White Reaction

Over the last five decades, the key feature of U.S. politics has been the unfolding of a largely race-driven counterrevolution against progressive and liberal politics.

The year 1972, when Richard Nixon beat George McGovern for the presidency, was a watershed, since it marked the success of the Republicans’ “Southern Strategy.” It had been Nixon’s aim to detach the American South from the Democratic Party and place it securely in the Republican camp as a reaction to the Democrats’ moving to embrace—albeit haltingly—the civil rights of Black people.

From 1972, the racist colonization of the Republican Party steadily progressed, reaching a first peak with Ronald Reagan, president from 1981 to 1989, whose extremely effective “dog-whistle” was the “welfare queen,” which whites decoded into “Black woman with lots of children dependent on state support.”

His successor, George H.W. Bush, memorably owed his election to his playing up the charge that his opponent Michael Dukakis, owing to a prison furlough bill the latter had supported as governor of Massachusetts, was “responsible” for a Black man, Willie Horton, going on a weekend leave from which he did not return and went on instead to commit other crimes.

This does not mean, of course, that people flocking to the Republicans during this period did not have other reasons for doing so, like opposition to abortion and to tax increases. There were a variety of reasons, but the central driver of this political migration was racism.

That racist Republican base, the majority of whom still believed as late as December 2017 that former President Obama had been born in Kenya, was the key factor that catapulted Trump to the presidency in 2016 (though Obama’s pro-free trade policies also played a crucial role in costing Hillary Clinton white working class voters in the deindustrialized Midwest states).

Turning Away from Democracy

What Trump has managed over the last few years as president is not so much to transform an already racially polarized electoral arena but to mobilize his racist base extra-electorally, combining dog-whistle race-coded language with rhetorical attacks on “Big Tech” and “Wall Street” (and on the latter, it’s just a matter of time before his followers will start zeroing in on the immigrant Indian roots of some very visible members of Silicon Valley and Wall Street’s elites, like Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella and former Citigroup chief Vikram Pandit.)

History has shown that when large social groups no longer feel they can win by democratic elections, the temptation towards extra-parliamentary solutions becomes very tempting. As the aggregate minority population in the U.S. moves toward parity in numbers with the white population over the next few decades, white nationalism is likely to become more rather than less popular among whites of all ages and across gender lines. That is where the danger lies now: the fascist mobilization of a white population that is in relative decline numbers-wise.

Many people are wondering why Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and most other Republican top dogs aren’t telling Trump to concede, though they most likely know his claims of fraud are bogus. The reason is that they know very well that if they do, Trump’s base would turn against them, endangering their current and future ambitions.

This just goes to show how much Trump and his base have converted the Republican Party into a pliable political instrument, with a leader-base relationship much like the Nazi Party in the Germany of the 1930s.

In fact, Trump is as much a creation of his base as he is creator of that base. What liberal commentators do not understand is that it is not only a case of Trump whipping up his base for his personal political ends. It is that, but it is much more: that base wants Trump to lie for them and cheat for them and go to hell for them—and if Trump were to stick to the conventions of the transition process, he himself would run the risk of being disowned by them.

For Trump’s people, what is at stake is the maintenance of white supremacy, the enduring material and ideological legacy of the genocide of Native Americans and enslavement of African Americans that are among the key foundational elements of the United States of America. Just as the South was willing to stake everything on the roll of the dice of secession in 1861, a very large part—perhaps the majority of the Republican base—is probably now willing to resort to extra-parliamentary means to stop the tide of equal rights and equal justice for all.

In this connection, the armed pro-Trump convoys that paraded against Black Lives Matter supporters in Portland in September, and the armed band that showed up to intimidate electoral workers counting the votes in Maricopa County, Arizona, on election night, may not be aberrations but a taste of things to come.

It is now evident that the Republicans’ emerging strategy is to refuse any formal concession on Trump’s part and boycott the inaugural ceremonies, then mobilize against the Biden administration as “illegitimate,” paralyzing it over the next four years.

I hate to spell this out, but the current mood in the U.S. approximates that of civil war, and it may just be a matter of time before one side, the Trump forces, translates that mood into something more threatening, more ugly.

Can Biden’s victory be the equivalent of Lincoln’s in the elections of 1860, which led the white South to support the secession spearheaded by the slave-owning aristocracy? Lincoln’s words unfortunately ring true today as they did then: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”

BullDog · 11-12-2020, 01:17 PM

I agree with Cin and the article above. I am sickened by how many people voted for Trump and the high percentage of white voters making up that number. I can't say I am completely shocked but it is disgusting. I kept hearing how white suburban women were fleeing Trump in droves. Well, apparently not. I guess they really don't care about children being separated from their parents, having no viable healthcare, or all of the atrocities Trump has committed and his incompetence.

I too believe white nationalism is the driving factor, although to make themselves feel better they will cite economic and other factors. The tax cuts favor the wealthy, not the middle or working classes. They are deluding themselves.

That's why any in-fighting among various factions of the Democratic party or telling Democrats they need to have better messaging, etc. I think is pretty much bullshit. We have an overwhelming problem with 65% of the electorate. They overlook their own economic interests, health, and more not to mention justice and standing up for democracy. That doesn't mean that I think we shouldn't keep fighting or trying harder but let's be clear what the huge problem is.

Vincent · 11-12-2020, 02:22 PM

I find the transitional period of 3 mths is very problematic in the US.

In a Aust,the govt of the day call an election and the parliament is disolved and is now in caretaker mode.
They cannot spend money or do any govt buisiness IE,pass bills sack public servants,as they are no longer the govt, while the election process is taking place.
After the Election,the new govt is imediately formed and then form a cabinet.
I'm afraid if the old govt maintained power after the election,they would clean out treasury,not that at the last election the current govt,believing they would loose ran up huge debt,then won,so now it is clearly the debt of their own making.
We have the westminster system,I'm wondering how other countries work?

Please don't make this a nationlalistic conversation,for me !!!!!
I am a world citizen.
I have blood ties to this land through Aboriginal elder maternal grandparents

Aboriginals had circular societies and were led by elders,not pyramid like capitalist society.

homoe · 11-13-2020, 08:48 AM

~~~
In the past few days, I've noticed several pundits bringing up "should Trump decided to run again in 2024"

STOP please I beg of you just stop it...

Cin · 11-13-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

That's why any in-fighting among various factions of the Democratic party or telling Democrats they need to have better messaging, etc. I think is pretty much bullshit. We have an overwhelming problem with 65% of the electorate. They overlook their own economic interests, health, and more not to mention justice and standing up for democracy. That doesn't mean that I think we shouldn't keep fighting or trying harder but let's be clear what the huge problem is.

I totally agree that in-fighting is counter productive. I don't know how it will happen but Democrats need to find a way to compromise. I think there is a much better chance for Democrats to find common ground with each other than with Republicans. A focus on Bipartisanship will lead Democrats down a dark path and is an object lesson in futility.

But I don't think constantly pushing for a move away from over focusing on choices that serve Wall St and Silicon Valley, addressing overwhelming income inequality and taking action by putting more money in the hands of the middle and working class, raising the minimum wage, caring for the poor and the homeless, fixing a broken healthcare system, demilitarization, slashing the trillion-dollar-plus annual military budget, putting an end to the country's endless wars, embracing nuclear disarmament and being a part of the U.N. Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, etc... means you are not clear what a huge problem white nationalism is in the US. It just means we need to keep the focus on what really matters for the average American.

I also don't think calling out the Democratic Party elite for blaming progressives for down ballot losses means you aren't clear on the huge problem white nationalism is in the United States. On the other hand pandering to the white nationalist party, better known as the Republican Party, does make it seem as though the huge problem of white nationalism in the US isn't clear to the Democratic Party. It isn't a good plan to focus on compromising with Republicans. And it doesn't makes it seem as though there is a lot of clarity as to what the huge problem in the US right now is if we chose to do that. We will not win the hearts and minds of the white nationalists who make up most of the Republican Party, so it would be better to focus on the needs of the people who put Biden in power. Don't make choices with the Republicans in mind, they will not make concessions, they do not compromise. Bipartisanship forces Democrats to blur lines and compromise values and the end result allows both parties to only focus on the interests of their donors and not the American people.

The Democratic Party needs to focus on getting those 2 Senate seats. If that doesn't go our way we will have to do the best we can with what we have and forget about the Republicans, we can't ever get them to compromise. All of the democratic party needs to work together, progressives and centrists, left and right, whatever you want to call them. It is a war for our for nation's soul, but it is NOT going to be won through bipartisanship. Working with a party whose agenda is white nationalism and causing chaos will not get us anything. They are not interested in working together and they are not interested in what is good for all Americans. Democrats working together for the common good and letting the American people, who are crying out for change, see that the Biden Administration is interested in bringing that change will do a lot to clarify a Democrat Party agenda so that voting Democrat isn't just voting against something, against Trump, against white nationalism, but voting FOR something, real change, systemic change. It is playing the long game, but it will go a lot further toward winning hearts and minds than focusing on making compromises and concessions that will never happen with the Republican (white nationalist) Party. The Republican party's idea of compromise is that the Democrats roll over every time.

BullDog · 11-13-2020, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cin

I totally agree that in-fighting is counter productive. I don't know how it will happen but Democrats need to find a way to compromise. I think there is a much better chance for Democrats to find common ground with each other than with Republicans. A focus on Bipartisanship will lead Democrats down a dark path and is an object lesson in futility.

But I don't think constantly pushing for a move away from over focusing on choices that serve Wall St and Silicon Valley, addressing overwhelming income inequality and taking action by putting more money in the hands of the middle and working class, raising the minimum wage, caring for the poor and the homeless, fixing a broken healthcare system, demilitarization, slashing the trillion-dollar-plus annual military budget, putting an end to the country's endless wars, embracing nuclear disarmament and being a part of the U.N. Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, etc... means you are not clear what a huge problem white nationalism is in the US. It just means we need to keep the focus on what really matters for the average American.

I also don't think calling out the Democratic Party elite for blaming progressives for down ballot losses means you aren't clear on the huge problem white nationalism is in the United States. On the other hand pandering to the white nationalist party, better known as the Republican Party, does make it seem as though the huge problem of white nationalism in the US isn't clear to the Democratic Party. It isn't a good plan to focus on compromising with Republicans. And it doesn't makes it seem as though there is a lot of clarity as to what the huge problem in the US right now is if we chose to do that. We will not win the hearts and minds of the white nationalists who make up most of the Republican Party, so it would be better to focus on the needs of the people who put Biden in power. Don't make choices with the Republicans in mind, they will not make concessions, they do not compromise. Bipartisanship forces Democrats to blur lines and compromise values and the end result allows both parties to only focus on the interests of their donors and not the American people.

The Democratic Party needs to focus on getting those 2 Senate seats. If that doesn't go our way we will have to do the best we can with what we have and forget about the Republicans, we can't ever get them to compromise. All of the democratic party needs to work together, progressives and centrists, left and right, whatever you want to call them. It is a war for our for nation's soul, but it is NOT going to be won through bipartisanship. Working with a party whose agenda is white nationalism and causing chaos will not get us anything. They are not interested in working together and they are not interested in what is good for all Americans. Democrats working together for the common good and letting the American people, who are crying out for change, see that the Biden Administration is interested in bringing that change will do a lot to clarify a Democrat Party agenda so that voting Democrat isn't just voting against something, against Trump, against white nationalism, but voting FOR something, real change, systemic change. It is playing the long game, but it will go a lot further toward winning hearts and minds than focusing on making compromises and concessions that will never happen with the Republican (white nationalist) Party. The Republican party's idea of compromise is that the Democrats roll over every time.

Yes, I think it's noble that Biden wants to work with everyone but he needs to be disabused of the notion that Republicans will work with him ASAP and not waste a second on it. They won't even acknowledge that he won a clear-cut victory.

I agree. Focus on the needs of those who support you. One place where Democrats I think could improve is with Latino voters. Biden is going to sign an executive order to protect the Dreamers and has pledged to try to reunite the children who are separated from their parents. Obviously, these things should be done because they are the right thing to do but hopefully, it will also show the Democrats commitment and they will continue to work on issues that impact Latino lives.

Of course, African American interests should be front and center. They are the backbone of our party.

Biden, of course, needs to focus on the coronavirus and beyond that, I say really basic economic issues that affect the lives of working-class and middle-class Americans. Get money into people's pockets and focus on job opportunities. I think an infrastructure plan would also be great because our roads, bridges, etc. are crumbling and it would create jobs. These things have nothing to do with progressive versus moderate or whatever. People need to be able to pay their bills and support their families.

I get irritated with the media about how the Democrats are supposed to better understand the Trump voter and that the messaging is all wrong. That's not to say Democrats can't do better but I sure as hell don't hear anyone saying now that Trump has lost that the Republicans really need to reach out to Democrats and understand their voters. The fact of the matter is during this crisis the Democrats tried to pass legislation to help people in need and the Republicans got rewarded for being obstructionists. It's disgusting.

Anyway, we need to continue to grow our base and just outnumber them.

Kätzchen · 11-13-2020, 11:31 AM

I am resonating greatly with posts by Cin & Bulldog.

Here is what I think needs to be dealt with, head on. White Nationalism, toxic white priviledge, and the cancerous hold it has on those who espouse these tenets and values. Every time i see McConnel's face or Graham's face, i see the embodiment of White Nationalism and the racist choices both make in the name of the Republican (White Nationalist) party.

They are both creepy, and people like them and stand beside them are equally creepy and toxic and (...).

I am beyond grateful for the sledgehammer effect of those who voted for the Democratic party.

And, yes, we got to keep on top of this situation until every last breath of White Nationalism is eradicated from American society.

~ocean · 11-13-2020, 12:02 PM

trump wanting to pardon himself along with known criminals ~ is an admission of guilt ~ he needs to be brought to justice no more allowances .the administration regardless of party, needs to intercept all of the actions of a crazy dictator named DONALD TRUMP . without these actions they are enabling a this man to jeopardize our security and needed actions to act on the pandemic. TRUMP doesn't care who dies or suffers. this virus is going to leave millions of people mentally disturbed. Including himself even more than he is now. What does this say about the AMERICAN government ? I ponder this argument constantly to myself. This is my own theory... WE ARE NOT FREE. This tyrant has us up against the wall. The people don't want him to stifle us when it comes to the pandemic. WE want to be saved. WE built this country it's ours. not HIS or a government that bends over for fear. He can't handle money ~ or the lives of the Americans. TRUMP bends over for evil leaders . He disrespects woman. TRUMP is a sexual deviate. ALL we know about him and we let him run OUR COUNTRY... Where is our legal justice ?? I'm not for violence, but we need to take TRUMP out of the WH physically. with OUR military behind us. The military is OURS . They are tax paying citizens who chose to uphold justice. OUR HEROES not TRUMPS TOYS. CIVILIAN TAKEOVER ... citizens arrest. He needs to GO. This is what casts over my daily thoughts. I am a creative person who is being robbed of my freedom, to feel and think of all of life's aspects because of the shadow that engulfs us. I have tried to preoccupy my thoughts. I can't when every part of thinking refers to business, health , freedom of going OUTDOORS to shop or walk ~ smile at a stranger and make their day or mine. YOU can't see a smile under a mask. TRUMP took our living daily lives away. TRUMP needs to GO. ~ and with this I need to go wash the escarole for tonight's soup. sorry for the rant ~

Vincent · 11-13-2020, 02:29 PM

fri DN
https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2020/11/13

homoe · 11-16-2020, 10:38 AM

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump’s refusal to concede the election has entered a more dangerous phase as he stokes resistance and unrest among his supporters and spreads falsehoods aimed at undermining the integrity of the American voting system.

More than a week after President-elect Joe Biden was declared the winner, Trump continues to block his successor’s transition, withholding intelligence briefings, critical information about the coronavirus pandemic and access to the vast machinery of government that Biden will soon oversee.

Some former top advisers to Trump have said that his refusal to cooperate is reckless and unwise. John F. Kelly, Trump’s former chief of staff, called it “crazy” on Friday. John R. Bolton, the president’s former national security adviser who wrote a scathing memoir about his time in the administration, said the refusal “harms the country.” “Every day that he delays under the pretense that he’s simply asking for his legal remedies ultimately is to the country’s disadvantage,” Bolton said on ABC’s “This Week” program on Sunday morning.

11-12-2020, 12:16 PM	#1
Cin Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Truly Madly Deeply Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: In My Head Posts: 2,815 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,333 Thanked 10,409 Times in 2,477 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	What is on my mind (and has been on my mind a lot since this endless election counting began) is what it might mean that over 72 million Americans voted for Trump to be the US President for another 4 years. They came out in droves to support him. It was mostly white people of course, although 34% of Asian voters, 32% of Latinx voters, 13% of black voters, and 41% of other voters chose Trump. I assume non white voters support Trump and the Republican party for tax reasons, fiscally conservative reasons, and/or socially conservative/religious reasons. However I don't believe those are the primary motivators for white republicans any longer, if they ever were. And any non white American supporting Donald Trump needs to understand this, anyone with a soul needs to understand this regardless of anything else. Although I suppose people could understand this completely and just not care. It does seem an odd thing not to care about, but then so is a pandemic and plenty of people don't seem to care about that. But to get back on track, 1972 was the year the Republicans succeeded with their Southern strategy and they have never looked back. I personally believe religious zeal drives many Republicans, but I also think nothing is as important as white nationalism. Here is an interesting article that speaks to this issue. http://www.commondreams.org/views/20...-get-better-us Things May Get Worse Before They Get Better for the U.S. For many, Trump’s ouster is a relief. But his steadfast support among white voters puts his party on a crash course with democracy. byWalden Bello I’m one of those kibitzers who supported Joe Biden reluctantly from a distance, mainly because I felt that for both the U.S. and the world, he was the lesser evil. And like many, I breathed a sigh of relief when Biden crossed the 270 electoral vote marker. Then the political sociologist in me took over as I looked at the electoral breakdown by race. The electoral coalition that was behind Biden’s win was a minority of whites (42 percent, most likely the people with more years in school), the vast majority of Black voters (87 percent), and a big majority of Latinx voters (66 percent) and Asian American voters (63 percent).Whites make up around over 65 percent of the electorate of the US. Surveys show that 57 percent of white voters (56 percent women, 58 percent men) went for Trump, despite everything—his awful mismanagement of the pandemic, his lies, his anti-science attitude, his divisiveness, and his blatant pandering to white nationalist groups like the Nazis, Klan, and Proud Boys. Trump’s support among whites was essentially the same as in 2016, with support from women rising to make up for a slight decline in that of men. White solidarity continues to be disturbingly strong, and, more than opposition to taxes, opposition to abortion, and unqualified defense of the market, it is now the defining ideology of the Republican Party. How did the party of Abraham Lincoln, author of the Emancipation Proclamation, become so completely opposite of what he stood for? The Party of White Reaction Over the last five decades, the key feature of U.S. politics has been the unfolding of a largely race-driven counterrevolution against progressive and liberal politics. The year 1972, when Richard Nixon beat George McGovern for the presidency, was a watershed, since it marked the success of the Republicans’ “Southern Strategy.” It had been Nixon’s aim to detach the American South from the Democratic Party and place it securely in the Republican camp as a reaction to the Democrats’ moving to embrace—albeit haltingly—the civil rights of Black people. From 1972, the racist colonization of the Republican Party steadily progressed, reaching a first peak with Ronald Reagan, president from 1981 to 1989, whose extremely effective “dog-whistle” was the “welfare queen,” which whites decoded into “Black woman with lots of children dependent on state support.” His successor, George H.W. Bush, memorably owed his election to his playing up the charge that his opponent Michael Dukakis, owing to a prison furlough bill the latter had supported as governor of Massachusetts, was “responsible” for a Black man, Willie Horton, going on a weekend leave from which he did not return and went on instead to commit other crimes. This does not mean, of course, that people flocking to the Republicans during this period did not have other reasons for doing so, like opposition to abortion and to tax increases. There were a variety of reasons, but the central driver of this political migration was racism. That racist Republican base, the majority of whom still believed as late as December 2017 that former President Obama had been born in Kenya, was the key factor that catapulted Trump to the presidency in 2016 (though Obama’s pro-free trade policies also played a crucial role in costing Hillary Clinton white working class voters in the deindustrialized Midwest states). Turning Away from Democracy What Trump has managed over the last few years as president is not so much to transform an already racially polarized electoral arena but to mobilize his racist base extra-electorally, combining dog-whistle race-coded language with rhetorical attacks on “Big Tech” and “Wall Street” (and on the latter, it’s just a matter of time before his followers will start zeroing in on the immigrant Indian roots of some very visible members of Silicon Valley and Wall Street’s elites, like Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella and former Citigroup chief Vikram Pandit.) History has shown that when large social groups no longer feel they can win by democratic elections, the temptation towards extra-parliamentary solutions becomes very tempting. As the aggregate minority population in the U.S. moves toward parity in numbers with the white population over the next few decades, white nationalism is likely to become more rather than less popular among whites of all ages and across gender lines. That is where the danger lies now: the fascist mobilization of a white population that is in relative decline numbers-wise. Many people are wondering why Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and most other Republican top dogs aren’t telling Trump to concede, though they most likely know his claims of fraud are bogus. The reason is that they know very well that if they do, Trump’s base would turn against them, endangering their current and future ambitions. This just goes to show how much Trump and his base have converted the Republican Party into a pliable political instrument, with a leader-base relationship much like the Nazi Party in the Germany of the 1930s. In fact, Trump is as much a creation of his base as he is creator of that base. What liberal commentators do not understand is that it is not only a case of Trump whipping up his base for his personal political ends. It is that, but it is much more: that base wants Trump to lie for them and cheat for them and go to hell for them—and if Trump were to stick to the conventions of the transition process, he himself would run the risk of being disowned by them. For Trump’s people, what is at stake is the maintenance of white supremacy, the enduring material and ideological legacy of the genocide of Native Americans and enslavement of African Americans that are among the key foundational elements of the United States of America. Just as the South was willing to stake everything on the roll of the dice of secession in 1861, a very large part—perhaps the majority of the Republican base—is probably now willing to resort to extra-parliamentary means to stop the tide of equal rights and equal justice for all. In this connection, the armed pro-Trump convoys that paraded against Black Lives Matter supporters in Portland in September, and the armed band that showed up to intimidate electoral workers counting the votes in Maricopa County, Arizona, on election night, may not be aberrations but a taste of things to come. It is now evident that the Republicans’ emerging strategy is to refuse any formal concession on Trump’s part and boycott the inaugural ceremonies, then mobilize against the Biden administration as “illegitimate,” paralyzing it over the next four years. I hate to spell this out, but the current mood in the U.S. approximates that of civil war, and it may just be a matter of time before one side, the Trump forces, translates that mood into something more threatening, more ugly. Can Biden’s victory be the equivalent of Lincoln’s in the elections of 1860, which led the white South to support the secession spearheaded by the slave-owning aristocracy? Lincoln’s words unfortunately ring true today as they did then: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” __________________ The reason facts don’t change most people’s opinions is because most people don’t use facts to form their opinions. They use their opinions to form their “facts.” Neil Strauss

11-12-2020, 01:17 PM	#2
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I agree with Cin and the article above. I am sickened by how many people voted for Trump and the high percentage of white voters making up that number. I can't say I am completely shocked but it is disgusting. I kept hearing how white suburban women were fleeing Trump in droves. Well, apparently not. I guess they really don't care about children being separated from their parents, having no viable healthcare, or all of the atrocities Trump has committed and his incompetence. I too believe white nationalism is the driving factor, although to make themselves feel better they will cite economic and other factors. The tax cuts favor the wealthy, not the middle or working classes. They are deluding themselves. That's why any in-fighting among various factions of the Democratic party or telling Democrats they need to have better messaging, etc. I think is pretty much bullshit. We have an overwhelming problem with 65% of the electorate. They overlook their own economic interests, health, and more not to mention justice and standing up for democracy. That doesn't mean that I think we shouldn't keep fighting or trying harder but let's be clear what the huge problem is. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

11-12-2020, 02:22 PM	#3
Vincent Member How Do You Identify?: Transman Preferred Pronoun?: Him,he Relationship Status: just me Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Tweed Heads Australia Posts: 427 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,205 Thanked 936 Times in 335 Posts Rep Power: 12178444	I find the transitional period of 3 mths is very problematic in the US. In a Aust,the govt of the day call an election and the parliament is disolved and is now in caretaker mode. They cannot spend money or do any govt buisiness IE,pass bills sack public servants,as they are no longer the govt, while the election process is taking place. After the Election,the new govt is imediately formed and then form a cabinet. I'm afraid if the old govt maintained power after the election,they would clean out treasury,not that at the last election the current govt,believing they would loose ran up huge debt,then won,so now it is clearly the debt of their own making. We have the westminster system,I'm wondering how other countries work? Please don't make this a nationlalistic conversation,for me !!!!! I am a world citizen. I have blood ties to this land through Aboriginal elder maternal grandparents Aboriginals had circular societies and were led by elders,not pyramid like capitalist society. __________________ https://soundcloud.com/conormont https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb1y2xyfYSw If Not Me-Who If Not Now-When If Not Here-Where

11-13-2020, 08:48 AM	#4
homoe Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: ..... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 30 minute ferry ride from Seattle Posts: 38,565 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 20,811 Thanked 33,548 Times in 14,914 Posts Rep Power: 21474889	Enough Already....... ~~~ In the past few days, I've noticed several pundits bringing up "should Trump decided to run again in 2024" STOP please I beg of you just stop it...

11-13-2020, 11:31 AM	#7
Kätzchen Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Join Date: May 2010 Location: @ home with my granddaughter, chosen friends & family. ツ Posts: 16,131 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,540 Thanked 33,557 Times in 10,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474868	I am resonating greatly with posts by Cin & Bulldog. Here is what I think needs to be dealt with, head on. White Nationalism, toxic white priviledge, and the cancerous hold it has on those who espouse these tenets and values. Every time i see McConnel's face or Graham's face, i see the embodiment of White Nationalism and the racist choices both make in the name of the Republican (White Nationalist) party. They are both creepy, and people like them and stand beside them are equally creepy and toxic and (...). I am beyond grateful for the sledgehammer effect of those who voted for the Democratic party. And, yes, we got to keep on top of this situation until every last breath of White Nationalism is eradicated from American society. __________________ “Evil flourishes in darkness, Corruption flourishes in secrecy,” ~Attorney’s for the Epstein Sex Abuse Survivors.

11-13-2020, 12:02 PM	#8
~ocean Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme blows a kiss off my finger tips * Preferred Pronoun?: ~ hey girl ~ Relationship Status: ~ single & content ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Massachusetts ~coastal Posts: 7,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 22,958 Thanked 16,018 Times in 4,724 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	trump wanting to pardon himself along with known criminals ~ is an admission of guilt ~ he needs to be brought to justice no more allowances .the administration regardless of party, needs to intercept all of the actions of a crazy dictator named DONALD TRUMP . without these actions they are enabling a this man to jeopardize our security and needed actions to act on the pandemic. TRUMP doesn't care who dies or suffers. this virus is going to leave millions of people mentally disturbed. Including himself even more than he is now. What does this say about the AMERICAN government ? I ponder this argument constantly to myself. This is my own theory... WE ARE NOT FREE. This tyrant has us up against the wall. The people don't want him to stifle us when it comes to the pandemic. WE want to be saved. WE built this country it's ours. not HIS or a government that bends over for fear. He can't handle money ~ or the lives of the Americans. TRUMP bends over for evil leaders . He disrespects woman. TRUMP is a sexual deviate. ALL we know about him and we let him run OUR COUNTRY... Where is our legal justice ?? I'm not for violence, but we need to take TRUMP out of the WH physically. with OUR military behind us. The military is OURS . They are tax paying citizens who chose to uphold justice. OUR HEROES not TRUMPS TOYS. CIVILIAN TAKEOVER ... citizens arrest. He needs to GO. This is what casts over my daily thoughts. I am a creative person who is being robbed of my freedom, to feel and think of all of life's aspects because of the shadow that engulfs us. I have tried to preoccupy my thoughts. I can't when every part of thinking refers to business, health , freedom of going OUTDOORS to shop or walk ~ smile at a stranger and make their day or mine. YOU can't see a smile under a mask. TRUMP took our living daily lives away. TRUMP needs to GO. ~ and with this I need to go wash the escarole for tonight's soup. sorry for the rant ~ __________________ ~ Always, ocean

11-13-2020, 02:29 PM	#9
Vincent Member How Do You Identify?: Transman Preferred Pronoun?: Him,he Relationship Status: just me Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Tweed Heads Australia Posts: 427 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,205 Thanked 936 Times in 335 Posts Rep Power: 12178444	Democracy now fri DN https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2020/11/13 __________________ https://soundcloud.com/conormont https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb1y2xyfYSw If Not Me-Who If Not Now-When If Not Here-Where

11-16-2020, 10:38 AM	#10
homoe Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: ..... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 30 minute ferry ride from Seattle Posts: 38,565 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 20,811 Thanked 33,548 Times in 14,914 Posts Rep Power: 21474889	I seethe whenever I hear anything out of Bolton's mouth... WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump’s refusal to concede the election has entered a more dangerous phase as he stokes resistance and unrest among his supporters and spreads falsehoods aimed at undermining the integrity of the American voting system. More than a week after President-elect Joe Biden was declared the winner, Trump continues to block his successor’s transition, withholding intelligence briefings, critical information about the coronavirus pandemic and access to the vast machinery of government that Biden will soon oversee. Some former top advisers to Trump have said that his refusal to cooperate is reckless and unwise. John F. Kelly, Trump’s former chief of staff, called it “crazy” on Friday. John R. Bolton, the president’s former national security adviser who wrote a scathing memoir about his time in the administration, said the refusal “harms the country.” “Every day that he delays under the pretense that he’s simply asking for his legal remedies ultimately is to the country’s disadvantage,” Bolton said on ABC’s “This Week” program on Sunday morning.