Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

[blush]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I have not read any post past this one.

I focus on girls and women for a reason. Yes, I am against snipping off part of a boy/man penis.......for any reason. I don't think that practice of Judaism (and taken up others), rises to the horrific consequences of mutilating a girl's clitoris and entrance to the vagina.

It is a red herring to bring up snipping off the foreskin and leaving the penis a functional pleasurable sexual organ. It does not relate in any way, shape or form, nor has any connection with rendering a girl/women unable to experience sexual pleasure.

edited to add: and that mutilation continues her role as the vessel for the next generation, while ending her ability to have any pleasure from the act of procreation.

Fair enough. I hear you. I didn't intend it as a red herring to diminish the horror of what happens to women(girls). Genital mutilation is genital mutilation, whether it happens to boy or girl infants.

Sincerely, I do hope you'll contribute to the thread Nat started.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Martina

The idea behind the term "breeder" is to denigrate women for producing, or overproducing, offspring.

I feel that it is also to *remind* women are their role in the patriarchy.

Like, a this is the reason you're here type o' thing.

I mean, again, I think it can be used either way (sinner/saint thing)



Dylan

[Heart]

As I've said many times, context is everything.

As for FGM - there is no comparison between what is done to boys and what is done to girls, not physically, socially, psychologically, functionally, or culturally.

See the rest of my comments in the GM thread.

[Toughy]

me in this color

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Just to be clear, "breeding" and one's life revolving around children are hardly synonymous.

I simply stated how I used the term. For me it is about those whose life revolves around children.

you use it however you want.


In fact, I think you just utilized a more repugnant use for the term.

You are entitled to your opinion

In context, you equate the ability to get pregnant with actual parenting, which
1.) invalidates the parenting of non-birth children.
2.) makes the assumption that getting pregnant means choosing also to actively parent.

I did not say any of this. You might trying reading what I said again.

Neither is logical and I want to think that none of this is what you actually meant. Such is the way of language.


You're the one who made up that interpretation. You own it, not me.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I love you darlin..............that does not mean we cannot disagree. We have a bond that will not be broken.

I will always always question authority. I worry that when we censor words, we censor thought. I am so fucking wrong because I call part of my family breeders.............really???????............Adel e.......ya can't tell me that. They are breeders in the sense they produce the next generation. My family will produce some queers.........we have for generations past. We breed queers. It's a damn good thing. I hope we continue to breed queers. My family breed me.

Do you see my point? I will do my best to not use that word around you. I hear it is hurtful to you and others. I will not stop using that term in reference to mi familia. I want mi familia to breed more who question authority, who do the right thing in spite of the consequences. I want mi familia to breed folks who see the equality in all of us.

Maybe it's because I am from farm and ranch folks and folks who appreciate genetics...........breeding is not a negative term..........it is a term to connotate the products of conception brought to life. It's a term used to promote the best of the species.

We can disagree yes. I just want to point out that I am not per se saying that the term is *wrong*. I am saying that it is hurtful. To me.

I am going to have to contact mi familia in Belen and Los Lunas and see how the Queers on the Ranches there feel about the word. Perhaps you have a point in regards to farm and ranch folk. I will go on a quest to find out.

I am not so small minded as to think that my little feelings make something wrong or right. I just know that the word hurts me as a Femme and as a Mother. If I sit around like a good little girl and ignore that? Then what purpose does that serve?

What I really really appreciate is that you can feel that the word is hunky dory and still be sensitive enough to try not to use it around me. Thank you.

[Mr. Moon]

It just ocurred to me after Toughy's post, that I really dislike the term "queer".

In my world it was used so much to hurt gay people that I twinge every time I hear it.

Then came the 90's and everybody wanted to "take it back" "own it".
I always had a hard time with that concept. Seems kind of silly to me, but it works for some I suppose, therefore it is not silly to them.

I think maybe the term in question has the same feeling to some people. So therefore I get it. I don't feel that way, but they do and that's what counts.

And I know I made several people blink alot, admitting I do not like the term queer.

Still makes me shudder. But I realize it's not about me, it's not used to hurt me (for the most part unless you travel in certain spots here in Maryland). So, I roll with people using that term.

I hope this made sense. I'm rattling...
-Mr. Moon

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moon

It just ocurred to me after Toughy's post, that I really dislike the term "queer".

In my world it was used so much to hurt gay people that I twinge every time I hear it.

Then came the 90's and everybody wanted to "take it back" "own it".
I always had a hard time with that concept. Seems kind of silly to me, but it works for some I suppose, therefore it is not silly to them.

I think maybe the term in question has the same feeling to some people. So therefore I get it. I don't feel that way, but they do and that's what counts.

And I know I made several people blink alot, admitting I do not like the term queer.

Still makes me shudder. But I realize it's not about me, it's not used to hurt me (for the most part unless you travel in certain spots here in Maryland). So, I roll with people using that term.

I hope this made sense. I'm rattling...
-Mr. Moon

Moonie, that must be even tougher than *breeder*. Because that term is used on such a large scale nowadays. I will make sure not to call you that and thanks for letting me know.

I wonder about words that carry that kind of power that have been reclaimed now. What if a person doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does?

Language. Argh.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moon

It just ocurred to me after Toughy's post, that I really dislike the term "queer".

In my world it was used so much to hurt gay people that I twinge every time I hear it.

Then came the 90's and everybody wanted to "take it back" "own it".
I always had a hard time with that concept. Seems kind of silly to me, but it works for some I suppose, therefore it is not silly to them.

I think maybe the term in question has the same feeling to some people. So therefore I get it. I don't feel that way, but they do and that's what counts.

And I know I made several people blink alot, admitting I do not like the term queer.

Still makes me shudder. But I realize it's not about me, it's not used to hurt me (for the most part unless you travel in certain spots here in Maryland). So, I roll with people using that term.

I hope this made sense. I'm rattling...
-Mr. Moon

It did..
And it was kind of the same thing I was thinking, and figured if i posted at all, that I would say..
I mean I like the word Queer, but I get, that many don't !
I do think context is important with any word, and yes I really do mean

ANY word...

Me, I don't like it when people use cunt as a swear word or to denote a stupid person
Need I explain why ?
But if I am referring to my cunt.. that's a whole nother story
Also, a lot is cultural..Not just contextual .. or let us say, they cultural differences, lend to different contextual meanings..

Oh and btw, did anyone come up with any other phrases and/or words , that are used by GLBTQ etc people , to hurt each other? I do believe that was the title of the thread, and maybe even the intent

[DapperButch]

Mr. Moon's comment made me think of how when I used to refer to myself as a dyke at work around the heterosexuals that I have a friendly relationship with, would become horrifed FOR me. "Don't say that...you are not a dyke!". This was their way of saying, oh gosh, has Dapper internalized that slur? :-( We don't want her (most I haven't had the gender conversation with), to do that!

I would have to educate them on how for me dyke is a proud term.

For some reason, they don't react to queer...I think at this point they just let me say whatever and don't question it! LOL

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

It did..
And it was kind of the same thing I was thinking, and figured if i posted at all, that I would say..
I mean I like the word Queer, but I get, that many don't !
I do think context is important with any word, and yes I really do mean

ANY word...

Me, I don't like it when people use cunt as a swear word or to denote a stupid person
Need I explain why ?
But if I am referring to my cunt.. that's a whole nother story
Also, a lot is cultural..Not just contextual .. or let us say, they cultural differences, lend to different contextual meanings..

Oh and btw, did anyone come up with any other phrases and/or words , that are used by GLBTQ etc people , to hurt each other? I do believe that was the title of the thread, and maybe even the intent

There are the attacks on gender which I and somebody else have mentioned: Shim, HeShe

There is the naming of the Slut: This is particularly hurtful. I think it happens in groups of women when we don't understand each other or are feeling insecure. It is sticky because the word slut when used by ones self can be empowering. When used to tear a woman down it can be really hurtful.

Anybody else?

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by blush

I wonder about words that carry that kind of power that have been reclaimed now. What if a person doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does?

If an individual doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does - really their only "responsibility" it to not use it. If someone doesn't like Queer, nobody is forcing them to say it. You're welcome to articulate why you don't like the word - but don't expect everybody to apologise and never use it again. DO expect everybody to make a mental note of that and not refer to YOU as Queer, however.

And then there's Fat.

I love the word Fat. I think Fat is just about the greatest fucking word in my vocabulary. I'm all about overusing it and desensitizing people to it to the point where when I say it it's clear to the listener that I'm using the same matter-of-fact voice that I would use if I were to mention my freckles.

I think there's a lot of power in taking back Fat.

But, you know, not everybody is on board. And they really don't have to be. I don't get to decide what words make other people uncomfortable.

Sometimes if I reference my Fat it squicks people out. From the co-worker who (so well intentioned) say "Brandy...you are not fat, honey." to lovers who say "I don't think you're fat, I think you're beautiful." (like I fucking can't be both? wtf! I wanna be both!) When that happens the onus is on me to (briefly) explain that I don't think Fat is a bad word, and why, and then move on with my life.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by betenoire

If an individual doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does - really their only "responsibility" it to not use it. If someone doesn't like Queer, nobody is forcing them to say it. You're welcome to articulate why you don't like the word - but don't expect everybody to apologise and never use it again. DO expect everybody to make a mental note of that and not refer to YOU as Queer, however.

And then there's Fat.

I love the word Fat. I think Fat is just about the greatest fucking word in my vocabulary. I'm all about overusing it and desensitizing people to it to the point where when I say it it's clear to the listener that I'm using the same matter-of-fact voice that I would use if I were to mention my freckles.

I think there's a lot of power in taking back Fat.

But, you know, not everybody is on board. And they really don't have to be. I don't get to decide what words make other people uncomfortable.

Sometimes if I reference my Fat it squicks people out. From the co-worker who (so well intentioned) say "Brandy...you are not fat, honey." to lovers who say "I don't think you're fat, I think you're beautiful." (like I fucking can't be both? wtf! I wanna be both!) When that happens the onus is on me to (briefly) explain that I don't think Fat is a bad word, and why, and then move on with my life.

And on four hours of sleep Bete succinctly sums it up. Thank you!

There are words that are going to be one persons trigger and anothers salvation. I suppose the key is opening our mouths and letting each other know what those words are?

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

There are the attacks on gender which I and somebody else have mentioned: Shim, HeShe

There is the naming of the Slut: This is particularly hurtful. I think it happens in groups of women when we don't understand each other or are feeling insecure. It is sticky because the word slut when used by ones self can be empowering. When used to tear a woman down it can be really hurtful.

Anybody else?

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

I understand. Until they are not, in context....

[Martina]

i don't think i have ever in my adult life used the word "slut" with anything but a tone of approval.

One thing i have heard in our community which reflects the sexism of the culture is disgust expressed for having casual sex or having had sex with numerous partners.

i know this feeling is not uncommon, but i truly wish it were less freely expressed.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

I never considered that "Shim" and "HeShe" could be ever be "endearing" even in context.

I am curious as to how you have heard these words be used in endearing ways.

[Darth Denkay]

Getting rid of flippant language: Check yourself here

This was the thread I read immediately before I read this one.

The word in question is offensive to folks on this site. That should be enough. Sometimes context doesn't matter. Well, okay, in at least one case it does. See, I have a friend who is a breeder. She breeds Siberian Huskies.

There are countless ways to refer to individuals who have children that are not offensive. My mother had two children, but she is not a breeder. See, that would make me a calf now wouldn't it.

A dialogue about patriarchy expecting women to bear children, identifying that as their most important role, is certainly a valid discussion. Using words in that discussion that are offensive are not necessary as well as disrespectful. Surely we have sufficient vocabulary to get our point across without being offensive.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Martina

i don't think i have ever in my adult life used the word "slut" with anything but a tone of approval.

One thing i have heard in our community which reflects the sexism of the culture is disgust expressed for having casual sex or having had sex with numerous partners.

i know this feeling is not uncommon, but i truly wish it were less freely expressed.

By the "naming of the slut" i am talking about a way we femmes ostracize one another and other one another. I don't know how to articulate it.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I never considered that "Shim" and "HeShe" could be ever be "endearing" even in context.

I am curious as to how you have heard these words be used in endearing ways.

Me too.

MOST transgender people I know don't find it endearing to be called two genders. Or even the gender they were incorrectly born into.

If you want to be endearing to my Beloved? He or Hy will do. "HeShe" is one step short of just saying freak, and I find it very disrespectful.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I never considered that "Shim" and "HeShe" could be ever be "endearing" even in context.

I am curious as to how you have heard these words be used in endearing ways.

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !