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06-13-2010, 04:18 PM
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#1 |
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Member
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I have a hard time figuring out why there has been on this site, a seeming juxtaposition and dualism between butches and transguys that is reactionary - like someone is encroaching on someone else's territory. Yes, butches and transguys are different, but that difference doesn't have to mean that there should be a hierarchy or a mutual exclusivity. My queer sisters and brothers are family to me. One of my very best friends is a butch. We understand things about each other that most people don't. But we recognize the differences as well and celebrate those in each other. I have a great respect for butches and their courage to walk in a world that can sometimes be harsh and judgmental, and ignorant. Let's stop the in-fighting and unite to support each other!
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06-13-2010, 05:05 PM
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#2 |
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Senior Member
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So, other than using the correct pronoun, how may I be supportive of everyone here?
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<3 Love is weird. |
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06-13-2010, 05:17 PM
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#3 |
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she loves my shaggy hair Join Date: Nov 2009
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Interesting quote though from an odd source (forgive me if I don't get it perfectly it's been a while):
"Sometimes I think it should be a rule of war that you have to stand face to face with your enemy and get to know him before you can shoot him." M*A*S*H, Colonel Potter I've thought of that quote often in these "gender wars", we're so much more than our IDs. The idea that we could sum up anyone or their ideas by them isn't realistic, they're so personally subjective anyway who'd even know what the mean but to the one owning them. Sure you can tell a little by ID, but like, you can know my ID but it won't tell you that I'm a very compassionate person, don't hold a grudge long or hell, that I love fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches. I always hate to think based on them anyone wouldn't feel welcome here in these spaces, it's shitty, and I know I've felt that way at times myself. It doesn't feel good to not feel welcome in a community you care about. I think if anybody goes away un-welcomed that's feels to me like a big fail on our part. I don't know how to fix the shit except on my part to try to be aware of what I say and do. And yeah Atlast, I do have hope... real life I've never had issues with other identities, I just think something (maybe the face to face human factor) gets lost in translation here. Peace, Metro
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.......... In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus
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06-13-2010, 05:23 PM
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#4 |
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Timed Out
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AtomicZombie & Metro,
I agree with what you both posted. I try my best to avoid drama. Sometimes I get caught up with the words or phrases that people say. Or if I post my feelings/opinions I get flamed by the same ones. I am tired. I feel very much silenced and I question if I belong here. I used to think that this was my community too. I get rejected by society because I am slow. If I ask a question or post my feelings or opinions there is someone to beat me down. It is worse than high school. I do care about the many people who I do love and who I consider my family. But I am tired. I have a limited short term memory, and long term memory is at zero. I am tired of having to share personal information to every Tom, Dick, and Harry to understand me. When I post that I am not good with words, trust me. When I post I am not computer savvy. Don't ask me to post pics in the gallery. I have no clue as to how too. Make sense? If I smoke a Nub cigar, trust me I am smoking a Nub cigar. Sorry for my rant. I just have to let it out. Andrew |
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06-13-2010, 05:29 PM
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#5 | ||
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Quote:
WOW, you and have closely related histories with our butch identity! But, I was much older before I developed a personal comfort zone. Dammit! And my history with transpeople is different than most here. Which is why I sometimes have thought, WTF? A friend pointed out to me that I have been in a state and geographical too long that trans is just part of everyday life. Plus, there has been a Tran gendered person around me or related to my relationships for 40 years, now. Not so for many people. However, I feel like my experiences is limited in many ways because it really is a different world evolving around gender these days. I remember the woman's space thread and was glad you started it, but knew some flack would fly. But, also, that a whole lot of positive could come along, too. Yup, a good starting place for you! Can't promise we won't get tangled up somewhere, but, so far, so good! I know that some folks have just had negative experiences on both sides (or should I say within all of the sides!), so, they will have to see how it goes before posting anything. I have been taken to task (outside of the site, as in real-time people) by some female-identified butches because I want to talk about this stuff. They see me as a traitor. These are not really friends to me, more like acquaintances, so, I'm just letting that go. Yup, the ignorance factor rides again! But, I can't change them. Quote:
Thank you so much for this. The part I underlined is so much at the center of how I hope this conversation goes. I don't get the dualism either. Sure, we can all have different political and philosophical views, and thoughts about gender (in and of itself), but I don't want to waste time fighting. I want unity, too. Not that we can't and won't disagree, but I'd much rather have disagreement and walk away with knowing someone better due to it. Yes, let's celebrate! Sometimes, I think that |
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06-13-2010, 06:16 PM
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#6 |
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If i may......
Just wanted to pop my femme head in here, since AtLast invited everyone (thanks for that).... I want to just say how wonderful this thread is to read and how happy I am to see it. In my life as a femme, I have wittnessed the sometimes anamosity that can go on. It has always saddened me. What a wonderful idea, Atlast, to bring the positive, upbeat, informative and "shaking hands" comradery that this has started. *curtsies to all here and Thank you for the breath of fresh air and sunlight that leads our community into strength and togetherness and overpowers the negative and bias who's shadows grow larger in the dark.
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~ I've learned that people will forget what you said,
people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. ~ Maya Angelou |
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06-13-2010, 06:20 PM
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#7 |
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MILLION $$$ PUSSY
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I have to ask just for clarification because I really need it right now..
Was I wrong to assume this was Butch and Transmen space? or was everyone allowed? Thank you for your time.
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"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden   |
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06-13-2010, 06:22 PM
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#8 | ||
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The Planet's Technical Bubba
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Quote:
From the OP: Quote:
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06-13-2010, 06:23 PM
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#9 | |
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MILLION $$$ PUSSY
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Quote:
Linus thank you I am to busy with a soon to be 10 year old to have read it all... I appreciate the clarification, for now I can post some thoughts. 
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"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden |
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06-13-2010, 06:29 PM
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#10 | |
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Timed Out
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Quote:
wow 10 already? how time flies .gif "Say What?") i know wrong thread |
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06-13-2010, 06:26 PM
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#11 | |
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Infamous Member
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Quote:
What is kewl is that quite a few members have just come in and posted! |
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06-13-2010, 06:28 PM
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#12 | |
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Roadster Guy
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Quote:
Forgive me here, AtLast, but I just want to make sure...the topic is butch, transmen, and intergendered friendships, though, correct?
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-Dapper    Are you educated or indoctrinated? |
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06-13-2010, 07:15 PM
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#13 | |
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MILLION $$$ PUSSY
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Quote:
*I* think (not saying this for everyone) that another thread should be started on a femme's perspective or affect on these friendships. This way you all have the chance to build some bridges and friendships without more stuff thrown in there. I hope that made sense. Oh lookee here I got ballsy and made the damn thread... http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...647#post129647 Mince!!!!
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"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden Last edited by The_Lady_Snow; 06-13-2010 at 07:30 PM. Reason: I got ballsy, I blame it on Forrest Gump being on and him slamming that guy during the Black Panther gathering..:| |
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06-13-2010, 06:28 PM
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#14 |
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Timed Out
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I'm thinking they will let ANYONE in this thread eh?
So many thanks to ya'll this is a great thread. i have been reading along. |
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06-13-2010, 10:41 PM
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#15 |
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Senior Member
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Hey Guys,
Please take my words not always literally for I am not the best at putting words into writing like some of you so eloquently do. I am asking this from my heart and not being an ass in anyway shape or form. I'm not so "up" on my trans knowledge so please bare with me while I come up with words that do not offend anyone. And please believe me when I say this is from my heart because one of my best buds is Post-Op (he says he thinks we were separated at birth) lol ok so here it goes.... Over at the Dash site I started a thread pertaining to the Olivia Cruise: in regards of Trans folks not being welcome on a Olivia Cruise. I wanted to ask the question but I stopped before because my previous questions stirred up some not so happy comments from folks including the owner. My question is this, How are they to know if some random Joe Blow who has never been through a transition get on the Cruise? For real.. I'm not trying to stir up shit trust me. Can't any male just hop on the ship? How are they to know who transitioned and who hasn't? I want all my friends gay-lesbian-trans-tg-ect... to be able to enjoy the things I enjoy not because of who I am or who they are. I want equal rights for ALL. They would have to let "everyone" on the ship? No? How could they not, are they really going to ask me if I'm really gay? Will they ask you what you are? I don't know ... I think I should make a phone call. |
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06-13-2010, 10:47 PM
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#16 |
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Strappie, personally I don't care about the dash site, or what they do or don't do, I have no vested interest in that site. I know that this site and the owners are very inclusive and would not in any way be divisive to the membership. So what the owner of the other site does or doesn't do in no way effects me or mine. And take your time to express yourself, I'm in no hurry.
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06-13-2010, 10:59 PM
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#17 |
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Corkey,
Thanks for not taking my words wrong. I find it a bit absurd that they would allow Men to go on the Cruise. They might as well open it up if they do that. I guess at this point I'm frustrated with the decision they made because I do know some do not feel it would be a welcoming place for them. I've heard a couple of times, "why would I support a function that is for "women" only. |
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06-13-2010, 11:05 PM
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#18 | |
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Quote:
__________________
"Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them".
~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee) |
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06-13-2010, 10:51 PM
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#19 | |
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Roadster Guy
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Quote:
I would really like to know. Not b/c I am planning on going, but b/c I would like to know. Also, if it is typcially only gay females, did the admin of the dash site may a special request that EVERYONE on her web site be able to attend? Let us (or at least me!) know if you make that phone call/pose that question on the site, what you find out.
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-Dapper Are you educated or indoctrinated? |
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06-13-2010, 11:01 PM
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#20 |
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Strappie,
I don't know who Olivia markets their cruises to now. I know how they initially did. They probably have a website you can check. |
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Russian Unicorn
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Hybrid Mode
