Difference between masculine and male identified?

[Andrew, Jr.]

I live as a man. I try my best to pass. I have had the surgeries, but am not on hormones. I am never going to be allowed to have t. That is what cards I was dealt - all from a childhood head injury.

[Blaze]

Very difficult question for me. 99.9% of the time I am called Sir, Mister, Him. It's not that I try to look male ID'ed. It's just a given. I have been asked many times from others; at what stage am I in my Trans-gendered transformation. My answer is I am at no stage. When I was 16 I had intestine cancer, to which I had to take Chemo as well as steroids. Thus, I could grow side burns as well as a decent beard if I chose to. But I prefer to shave daily sometime twice a day, is it a blessing? Not really, I hate the
5 O'clock shadow that follows. I do feel comfortable with myself, yet sometimes when I look in the mirror, I am down fonded at what I see. I feel very masculine and yet my breast depress me. I don't want to do any changes to my body, I guess because my mind is strong enough to recognize that I am alright with myself. And that I am a woman, and can be butch at the same time.
Thank's for sharing this post!

[Andrew, Jr.]

Blaze, We are like the exact opposite. One who wants and one who wants not. Like driving a car. One wants an SUV and one who wants BMW sedan. Just the cards we were given in life.

Andrew

[Jett]

I'm not "female identified butch" or "male identified butch"... or "masculine identified butch"...

But I am a butch... I am masculine.... I am a female


I just am what I am I guess.

[MainelyButch]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm not "female identified butch" or "male identified butch"... or "masculine identified butch"...

But I am a butch... I am masculine.... I am a female


I just am what I am I guess.

Very well said....sometimes this is EXACTLY how I feel!!! I am the sum of both, a female presenting as masculine...BUTCH.

[Darth Denkay]

I appreciate all those who have posted but am not sure I clearly stated my question. Here, let me try again.

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Thoughts?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

I appreciate all those who have posted but am not sure I clearly stated my question. Here, let me try again.

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Thoughts?

To answer your question, yes. What to do about it to change others minds, shrugs, maybe we can't. Maybe we just have to live as we are, and not worry how others perceive us. It really doesn't matter at the end of the day, I still look in the mirror and see me, in all my glory.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Yes, it seems at times that the binary is still the standard, the standard to live and measure our identity. For many years I never thought I was "gender queer." I was a butch. No one ever asked me if I were male or female identified. It felt as though many believed that to be butch was by default a immitation of male. I reject all of this.

Through my own inquiry, thinking and living in my skin, I now know that masculinity is not restricted to cisgendered men or other masculine entities.

I think gender can be primarily a construct. However, I did not realize for most of my life, that I could construct and define my own gender. I identify as a Transmasculine Butch because for me, I cannot label myself a mistake. I am evolving. I was born into a female body because it is a foundational part of who I am. I also choose to move further into a more masculine presentation via surgery and taking T.

I am not content that in the realm of legal recognition I have only two options, male or female. I have the history, hormones, thoughts, experiences of both. Which in my mind makes me "other."

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

I appreciate all those who have posted but am not sure I clearly stated my question. Here, let me try again.

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Thoughts?

Yes, I do believe that there is an expectation that butches be female-identified or male identified.

Personally, I am not a "female identifed butch" OR a "male identified butch". Subsequently, I identify as a TG Butch. I also do not regard myself as a woman, nor do I see myself as a man. (However, I do regard my sex as female, as that is what I am biologically).

Except for a recent thread on the "dash site" (I love that saying by the way...don't know who came up with it) where the request was made for only female-id'ed butches to post, I have never felt like I didn't have a "place" or didn't fit.

It was the first time that I ever considered or was concerned that butch threads would start to get divided into male id'ed and female id'ed threads. It concerned me for the community (more division) and then I also thought....hey, where the hell will I post? lol

[Bootboi]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm not "female identified butch" or "male identified butch"... or "masculine identified butch"...

But I am a butch... I am masculine.... I am a female


I just am what I am I guess.

Right on Metro!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm not "female identified butch" or "male identified butch"... or "masculine identified butch"...

But I am a butch... I am masculine.... I am a female


I just am what I am I guess.

My butch identity lies within the realm of being a woman. One that is lesbian, masculine and feminine and whose gender stems from masculine energies projected (and formed) from the female (animus). This is how it has always been for me even when I did not identify as butch (or even knew of the term). Consequently, female-identified butch does provide me with an identification that allows for this fluidity. I can't provide an answer for how it applies to others only for myself.

I have never felt that masculine falls exclusively in the domain of men. Nor that femininity falls exclusively in the domain of women. And I feel that the limits of western culture (and language) is what keeps us stuck in the binary. Other cultures (including Native American), do not have this dilemma as they have several terms and descriptors of gender. However, gender theory gives us an opportunity to break through this isolation. For a long time, I could only make sense out of my own gender fluidity and integration through Jungian theory.

I gues, I am what I am, too!

[TIMBERWOLF]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm not "female identified butch" or "male identified butch"... or "masculine identified butch"...

But I am a butch... I am masculine.... I am a female


I just am what I am I guess.

Thanks Metro, I guess thats the way I feel too. It wasn't until people and threads were trying to put everyone in a category of male Id or Female Id, well I'm not feminine but am attracted to those that are, I don't always wear boxers and I (WT) just bought a 3 piece women's suit for my job interviews because even as Butch as I am I have to down play it for jobs.I have to shave every day and I don't go by male pronouns . I believe to each their own journey or path to their discovery of who they are,and I wear the strap on in this relationship
TIMBER

[AtLast]

What I am getting the most from this thread right now is about deep hurt around divisive labels/identifications. I don't exactly know why this is just more salient to me in this particular thread (or site), but I just have a much more positive feeling inside about our communication. And this just feels so much better because I want to get past the places where we get stuck so often.

When I think about being butch, it is about a multi-faceted array of constructs. And when I run head-on into the negative stuff I hear at let's say, events like the dyke march during pride (or some other LGB-"TI" event), I become so bewildered. The assumptions about the B-F dynamic and trans-people (including the inter-gendered) along with the B-F dynamic in general remain stuck in what we are talking about. Doesn't matter at all about individual identifications. So much of this has been part of my experience throughout many years now.

I do understand how and why certain identifiers have ended up as terms that can inflame and cause division. I am thinking that developing more sensitivity to this is one way I can at least diffuse some of this. I remember feeling somewhat angry in a thread in the dist site in which I felt I had to keep posting disclaimers concerning TG/I identities to ward off being viewed as anti-trans. My struggle was with needing to claim my female butch identification with pride, but knowing that TG/I friends and a family member also needed my support and for me to just be aware of the other side of the coin.

What I have been experiencing here from many male-identified, TG/I butches (and their partners) feels much more mutually supportive.

Thinking we need a whole lot more of this! I can't see developing more inclusive and positive butch frameworks without sifting out what sets apartmale and masculine. This is just a part of opening one's mind and not depending on stereotypic, or assummed definitions (for me, anyway).

:LGBTQFlag:Hey, maybe we all will gather under this flag once and for all!

[Jett]

I find it very interesting that what I hear consistently is that many (not saying all) butches don't feel the pressure/need to publicly identify as one or the other until entering (mainly online) B-F communities. The only advice I would give to someone who's suddenly finds themselves mulling the "ID's" to try and find a fit... is to look damn close as to who's expectations and definitions you're actually cleaving to and what made you feel like you need to.

Because at what point are we no longer breaking gender stereotypes when we define/label ourselves as XYZ ID'd butches, but rather bowing to the binary stereotype and kissing patriarchal ass-umptions and expectations of the sexes by obediently adhering to their perceived limits/restrictions in what female/male means.

I feel like in turn we're sometimes failing to stronghold the uniqueness, limitlessness and possibilities of just who we are already as butches without needing additional outside affirmation in that context.

Again, just random thoughts...
Metro

[Lillie]

When I first met hym and we started to get to know each other..I asked.."how do you identify" it is important for me to know this..so the boundaries are there..I loved what he said

"Im masculine..but i feel like I am the feminine side of a man..the softer side.."This helped me so much to understand hym...confusion in the beginning for this femme anyway is a turn off..be upfront about who and how you identify..makes it easier for both..

Lillie

[MysticOceansFL]

Darth I agree with you on this topic I am a lesbian identified Butch. My behaviours are butch.

[Liam]

Could the distinction between the two, be that one identifies as a lesbian, and the other does not?

[AtlantaButch824]

Originally Posted by Blaze

Very difficult question for me. 99.9% of the time I am called Sir, Mister, Him. It's not that I try to look male ID'ed. It's just a given. I have been asked many times from others; at what stage am I in my Trans-gendered transformation. My answer is I am at no stage. When I was 16 I had intestine cancer, to which I had to take Chemo as well as steroids. Thus, I could grow side burns as well as a decent beard if I chose to. But I prefer to shave daily sometime twice a day, is it a blessing? Not really, I hate the
5 O'clock shadow that follows. I do feel comfortable with myself, yet sometimes when I look in the mirror, I am down fonded at what I see. I feel very masculine and yet my breast depress me. I don't want to do any changes to my body, I guess because my mind is strong enough to recognize that I am alright with myself. And that I am a woman, and can be butch at the same time.
Thank's for sharing this post!

Blaze thank you for sharing. I feel the same way you do. I am masculine it's just my nature. I think like a man but when I look in the mirror I know I am in a woman's body. I am simply a butch/stone butch. I am comfortable with myself. Hopefully one day I will find a woman to spend the rest of my life with, who will love me for who I am.