Butch/Butch Theory

[evolveme]

I think it's a problem of internalized homophobia. If we aren't fetishizing it (and it is squicking us out) this is likely the reason. Which is curious, because of who we are. Homophobia is so systemic that it would be over-reaching to assume we are exempt from experiencing it.

I have to share here, if I am honest, that the butch/butch dynamic was something I spent real work getting to be okay with (a previous partner was equally enamored of butches as with femmes). This bothered me. I had to think about why. I had to explore it and work it out.

Eventually, my baseline beliefs were able to overthrow my reflexive ones. I want for all of us to experience not just equality around whom we naturally love, but a sense of celebration.

And that's where I am today.

[deathbypoem]

Many MANY thanks to you grrls/guys that have shed some light on this bois mad rant I appreciate the support and the real talk here!!! I think its great to be openminded and love who it is we so desire to.

[Dragonfly]

Has anyone experienced a butch/butch relationship where there was BF Community social pressure felt by one of you to "become more feminine"... or did others seem to question your butchness for having this preference?

[RNguy]

I think this is an interesting topic, so thank you for bringing it up.
I really think love is love, and I have always been curious on this one thought:
This is my own opinion. I wondered if 2 people were stranded on an island with no contact or communication with anyone other than the one they are stuck with and who haveno chance of being rescued then I wondered if those 2 people would fall in love .
I think that in that type of situation where 2 people never thought that the other persons identity was ever attractive all of a sudden find them to be the most attractive person they ever saw.
I have never thought that boi's were attractive at all. I have never been in any kind of relationship with another boi , butch, or andro even bc I'm just not that boi. I believe that love is love and who ever you find attractive and love is amazing ! I would think that the intimacy with 2 butches would be very very intence.
I wondered if since I do not think butches are attractive and would not be with one, if maybe I were to be stuck in a stranded place with no hopes of rescue if I would fall in love with another boi???? I think I would.
I think love is a beautiful thing no matter who one shares it with.
I have had several butches that only desire butches tell me that I am nice looking and etc... I'm flattered by that , just as I am flattered if a femme, or whoever would say it.

-RNguy

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I have to agree with everyone who has posted so far.

My town is similar to that G describes. You see Butches with Butches alot.

Snouzepoo?

Avocado Christie, I agree wholeheatedly on all points, though our fetishizing of B/B likely makes us pretty non-PC.

Death, you mention people feeling threatened by Butches who want to date Butches. I think people are naturally inclined to be threatened by something (anything).

I get the allure of dating someone you have tons in common with. I learned in Sociology in college that the more a couple has in common, the more likely it is that they will stay together.

I'm sorry that you feel misunderstood and I totally get that...most regular Lesbians in my town think I am absolutely out on the lunatic fringe somewhere for dressing like I do and liking Butches.

Maybe the power of Butch is what is threatening? I don't know. Interesting thread.

Two points:

1. I agree with you wholeheartedly that some are threatened by the power of (the) butch. I think it's the dichotomy that gets folks' boxers and panties in big ole bunches over it.

2. Schnoodle?

Originally Posted by evolveme

I think it's a problem of internalized homophobia. If we aren't fetishizing it (and it is squicking us out) this is likely the reason. Which is curious, because of who we are. Homophobia is so systemic that it would be over-reaching to assume we are exempt from experiencing it.

I have to share here, if I am honest, that the butch/butch dynamic was something I spent real work getting to be okay with (a previous partner was equally enamored of butches as with femmes). This bothered me. I had to think about why. I had to explore it and work it out.

Eventually, my baseline beliefs were able to overthrow my reflexive ones. I want for all of us to experience not just equality around whom we naturally love, but a sense of celebration.

And that's where I am today.

I had the opposite dynamic that I found I had to work on. For me, I just could not wrap my mind around the Femme/Femme dynamic. In my mind, it was so twisted and tangled with the images shown by straight porn of "lesbians" together that I think I rejected the concept as a whole.

It's my nature to say "whatever floats your boat" so I wasn't completely oppositional to the dynamic....just more along the lines of "why?" Since it's the hotness of the butch that revs my engine, I couldn't grasp why everyone didn't feel the pull towards them as I did. Eventually, I came to my senses and saw what others who do enjoy that dynamic see. I still don't feel it's for me, but my horizon was definitely broadened.

[Darth Denkay]

Interesting thought.

I can only theorize what would happen if I was stranded with another butch with no hope of ever being rescued or whatever. Assuming we got along and all, I would think that I would grow to love the other butch. Would I fall in love with them - well, I guess I'm not really sure what the difference would be between loving the butch and being in love with the butch. Splitting hairs - maybe. I imagine that we aould be involved in a sexual relationship. We both have needs and in extreme situations we sometimes do what normally would not be our preference. Happens all the time in situations where a bunch of men or women are forced together - in jails for instance.

So yeah, I would probably - hopefully - love the butch. Yeah, we would probably have sex. But again, this is an extreme situation. If the same butch and I were friends in the real world, would those same feelings and behaviors occur. For me, I would think not.

Originally Posted by RNguy

I think this is an interesting topic, so thank you for bringing it up.
I really think love is love, and I have always been curious on this one thought:
This is my own opinion. I wondered if 2 people were stranded on an island with no contact or communication with anyone other than the one they are stuck with and who haveno chance of being rescued then I wondered if those 2 people would fall in love .
I think that in that type of situation where 2 people never thought that the other persons identity was ever attractive all of a sudden find them to be the most attractive person they ever saw.
I have never thought that boi's were attractive at all. I have never been in any kind of relationship with another boi , butch, or andro even bc I'm just not that boi. I believe that love is love and who ever you find attractive and love is amazing ! I would think that the intimacy with 2 butches would be very very intence.
I wondered if since I do not think butches are attractive and would not be with one, if maybe I were to be stuck in a stranded place with no hopes of rescue if I would fall in love with another boi???? I think I would.
I think love is a beautiful thing no matter who one shares it with.
I have had several butches that only desire butches tell me that I am nice looking and etc... I'm flattered by that , just as I am flattered if a femme, or whoever would say it.

-RNguy

[imperfect_cupcake]

hmn, hard to explain.

for a long time my only exposure to dykedom was through amutual friend who was very much part of the seattle butch/butch leather scene, a long time ago. For the longest time is really affected how I percieved being a dyke. I couldn't be one. I wasn't a butch, nor was I that kind of leather. And as far as I knew, at that point, that's was dykes were.

plus when I was in their company, they did nothing but say dismissive and hideous things about femmes. Some of them occationally dated femmes but their attitude was "bit of fluff on the side."

So I grew from 18 - 25, thinking that the only way to be taken seriously was to be masculine and that butch-butch were so into masculinity, and hated femininity so much (probably due to the phase they had to go through of rejection for themselves), that femmes were pretty much loathed.

So I pretty much thought that butch/butch would hate me for my femininity, without even knowing me. But, there is a similarity in butch/butch as there is in gay male men/men communities. Many of them do hate women and want nothing to do with females. Thankfully, a lot of them don't. And the same with butch/butch.

So when I'm introduced to a butch/butch couple when I'm out, the first thing that skidds across my brain is "how quickly are they going to ignore me/dismiss me because I don't matter."

sometimes I'm proved wrong and that makes me happy. I can have good conversation with good people. And I've made some great, fun friendships. But sometimes, unfortunately, I'm right. And instead of friendship I get the bland dismissal look of "oh. femme. *blank*" Usually because they themselves make assumptions about me and about femininity.

I've been privy to conversation about things like "oh do we have to bring a femme along? she's just going to whine, complain about her feet hurting and demand attention..." when one of them says that they are bringing X to an after-party or whatever. Either forgetting I'm there or just being an asshole.

that said, one of the politest, loveliest butches was one that was with another butch and sincerely helped me when everyone else flaked out.

I'm just scared of wierd misogyny. I'm a bit wary about gay men in the same way when I meet them because of the same issue.

[Lynn]

Having worked so hard and waited so long to pursue the type of individual I would truly desire, I can't begin to judge anyone else for their preferences. I'm a pretty accepting, open person, anyway. I could probably fall in love with you (any of you) if you reveal yourself to me. I am deeply touched by authenticity, in all its forms. But, I've learned that love isn't always love, at least for me. I definitely have sexual preferences and proclivities. If you're a woman, that's great. If you have masculine qualities, that's perfect. I'm absolutely certain that my kind of desire grosses other people out. So, butch on butch doesn't perplex me, nor does femme on femme. Or just about anything else that's legal. We've come too far to require one another to justify who we are and how we're wired.