The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[violaine]

[QUOTE=The_Lady_Snow;151869]Ms Apoca I am gonna jump off your post.

So what does one do when you have made it clear, a THOUSAND times with patience, with kindness and the person still does not respect those boundaries?

Do I just chalk it up to the fact they have a disability and they are gonna use that as an excuse time and time again?

Curious how you would handle this cause I don't have a soft buffer like yourself?

TheLadySnow

i was thinking apocalipstic's post was really good [to me] about her ability to understand posts, over the years, which may have been written by DA, and NT moderated.

your question, although it's to apocalipstic, i would like to respond to, please. in my own experiences, i could ask the very same thing about NT's who disrespect boundaries time and time again- do i chalk it up to being the 'majority?"

this is very interesting, because i sometimes have wondered if NT's - DA or not - notice certain things, which can get lost during my translation to someone not on the spectrum, whenever i try to explain what i just heard and/or saw - and these NT words/behaviours can happen rapid-fire.

[SuperFemme]

[quote=violaine;151949]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Ms Apoca I am gonna jump off your post.

So what does one do when you have made it clear, a THOUSAND times with patience, with kindness and the person still does not respect those boundaries?

Do I just chalk it up to the fact they have a disability and they are gonna use that as an excuse time and time again?

Curious how you would handle this cause I don't have a soft buffer like yourself?

TheLadySnow

i was thinking apocalipstic's post was really good [to me] about her ability to understand posts, over the years, which may have been written by DA, and NT moderated.

your question, although it's to apocalipstic, i would like to respond to, please. in my own experiences, i could ask the very same thing about NT's who disrespect boundaries time and time again- do i chalk it up to being the 'majority?"

this is very interesting, because i sometimes have wondered if NT's notice certain things, which can get lost during my translation to someone not on the spectrum, whenever i try to explain what i just heard and/or saw - and these NT words/behaviours can happen rapid-fire.

What is an NT?
What do you mean by "being the majority"?

[christie]

[quote=SuperFemme;151952]

Originally Posted by violaine

What is an NT?
What do you mean by "being the majority"?

NT = Neuro-Typical

[SuperFemme]

[quote=christie0918;151956]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

NT = Neuro-Typical

ah. thank you

[Corkey]

Neuro typical are the majority of people with brains that function in a typical fashion. I hate using normal, cause there are all kinds of normal.

[SuperFemme]

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;151967]What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

yes, and i am DA, and am participating in this thread topic as such, addressing the very same thing - fairness - from every angle.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

Is it bad to have a different set of expectations? In all respect, I am not trying to be negative.

I agree that pity is bad, and treating with kid gloves is bad....but what about different types of communication where someone might read like an asshole to the average person, when really they are not trying to be an asshole at all?

I have pretty much stopped mentioning when someone is AS as an explanation for behavior because the answer always is..."so and so is not stupid", then I feel stupid for even bringing it up because the post was clear as day to me as not assholish and I must be stupid to be able to understand it clearly.

The difference between many people who are Autistic and on the Spectrum is that we don't see ourselves as having a disability. We see ourselves as having a different way of being which some of us even see as being superior (hence the problem I think)...and I know this can cause anger in Neurotypical people. I have experienced it myself.

Heck NO I don't want pity, but I don't want to be like everyone else either, except for maybe you SuperFemme! xoxoxxo

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Is it bad to have a different set of expectations? In all respect, I am not trying to be negative.

I agree that pity is bad, and treating with kid gloves is bad....but what about different types of communication where someone might read like an asshole to the average person, when really they are not trying to be an asshole at all?

I have pretty much stopped mentioning when someone is AS as an explanation for behavior because the answer always is..."so and so is not stupid", then I feel stupid for even bringing it up because the post was clear as day to me as not assholish and I must be stupid to be able to understand it clearly.

The difference between many people who are Autistic and on the Spectrum is that we don't see ourselves as having a disability. We see ourselves as having a different way of being which some of us even see as being superior (hence the problem I think)...and I know this can cause anger in Neurotypical people. I have experienced it myself.

Heck NO I don't want pity, but I don't want to be like everyone else either, except for maybe you SuperFemme! xoxoxxo

I am not talking about expectations, although I do think that if we are going to take the time to understand and communicate with people of different abilities that we can take an extra moment and give that same consideration to NT people too if we want to.

I am speaking to a different set of rules/consequences. Really, even if consequences are on a case by case basis (which isn't a bad thing and is my understanding this happens across the board here by mods/owners) at then end of the day are the rules different?

If so, then how is that empowering and a positive thing?

I don't have autism/AS so I don't really know what things look like for somebody that does. Since you know maybe you can tell me if you would feel ok with having a different set of rules than the rest of the world?

Because I am super interested in hearing from ALL kinds of differently abled people.

If someone doesn't consider themselves as such, I respect that. Who am I to label? As for you bringing it up and the response being "that person is not stupid"? That is not a response from a person who wants to communicate. That is a response from a person who is deeply invested in being "right".

I get pretty fumed at the expectation of stupidity in relation to being differently abled. I want to punch people that say "You're so smart, I'd never know you had a TBI".

Instead? I try to educate. If it's a moot point, I don't try very hard.

[MrSunshine]

Passes. I don't get them or give them.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

Thanks for this thread. I will be back to participate later. Gotta get some household stuff done, today!

My 30 year old great-nephew will soon be living close to me as he enters graduate school. He is not only a young man born with V.A.T.E.R.'s Syndrome (also known as V.A.C.T.E.R.L. syndrome) with life-long physical ramifications, hospitalizations and surgeries. He also also deals with Asperger's syndrome.

Will be good to be able to read some things, here, I believe.

http://specialchildren.about.com/od/...ex/g/VATER.htm

[Corkey]

Sometimes I think it does take being repetitive, to the point of pulling ones hair out. Some just don't have the capacity to remember the social cues that the rest of us NT's take for granted. I know my wife has to go thru this on a daily basis when she is at work, and that is with NT folks, not just the individuals she has to take care of. Do they get a pass, no because their behavior is still in question and it is addressed. I do think personally that NT folks have a greater responsibility for patience. Or not, this requires one remove the offending person from their life.

[The_Lady_Snow]

[quote=violaine;151949]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Ms Apoca I am gonna jump off your post.

So what does one do when you have made it clear, a THOUSAND times with patience, with kindness and the person still does not respect those boundaries?

Do I just chalk it up to the fact they have a disability and they are gonna use that as an excuse time and time again?

Curious how you would handle this cause I don't have a soft buffer like yourself?

TheLadySnow

i was thinking apocalipstic's post was really good [to me] about her ability to understand posts, over the years, which may have been written by DA, and NT moderated.

your question, although it's to apocalipstic, i would like to respond to, please. in my own experiences, i could ask the very same thing about NT's who disrespect boundaries time and time again- do i chalk it up to being the 'majority?"

this is very interesting, because i sometimes have wondered if NT's - DA or not - notice certain things, which can get lost during my translation to someone not on the spectrum, whenever i try to explain what i just heard and/or saw - and these NT words/behaviours can happen rapid-fire.

We have all joined a site, that has a set of rules, we all live in a society with sets of rules. Be we either NT or not we have to abide to the rules and boundaries that are set by one another or that have been already set.

So NT or DA matters not, I could use the fact that english is not my first language and I am dyslexic, then again you are assuming we are all NT no? We all have a knowing of what is right and wrong, if we do not have that comprehension then we are asking for trouble if allowance is being given time and time again because of someone's illness

Make sense?

[Apocalipstic]

[quote=The_Lady_Snow;152040]

Originally Posted by violaine

We have all joined a site, that has a set of rules, we all live in a society with sets of rules. Be we either NT or not we have to abide to the rules and boundaries that are set by one another or that have been already set.

So NT or DA matters not, I could use the fact that english is not my first language and I am dyslexic, then again you are assuming we are all NT no? We all have a knowing of what is right and wrong, if we do not have that comprehension then we are asking for trouble if allowance is being given time and time again because of someone's illness

Make sense?

You are right we do have to have the same rules for everyone.

But say if you said something some people took wrong and I knew it was because English is not your first language, I would say so and be supportive of you.

I really like it that we have time outs on this website before full on banning, so people can think about what they did to break the rules.

Is it possible that some people have too much going on to be a valuable asset to an on line community?

[MrSunshine]

[quote=apocalipstic;152046]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Is it possible that some people have too much going on to be a valuable asset to an on line community?

This is a damn good question.

[The_Lady_Snow]

[quote=apocalipstic;152046]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

You are right we do have to have the same rules for everyone.

But say if you said something some people took wrong and I knew it was because English is not your first language, I would say so and be supportive of you.

I really like it that we have time outs on this website before full on banning, so people can think about what they did to break the rules.

Is it possible that some people have too much going on to be a valuable asset to an on line community?

Because I know I have to decipher things from spanish to english, then fucking read through the cryptic lettering and put it all together in my head I watch what I say.

I read posts sometimes 20 times and still I fuck up, I don't expect anyone to pat pat me or use a different filter.

*I* don't want that.

I am just the same as everyone else with the same rules

[Apocalipstic]

[quote=The_Lady_Snow;152051]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Because I know I have to decipher things from spanish to english, then fucking read through the cryptic lettering and put it all together in my head I watch what I say.

I read posts sometimes 20 times and still I fuck up, I don't expect anyone to pat pat me or use a different filter.

*I* don't want that.

I am just the same as everyone else with the same rules

I get what you are saying and agree. I do the same thing.

I highlight so I can read the print if the color is too light, change the damn font size on my computer, try to take into account what the person might be feeling or what they REALLY might mean, where they might be from, what does their slang mean (I look that up)....etc...etc...so i can try to know how to answer. Then I try to make my sentence phrasing and spelling sound like I am from the US..............

But bottom line, you are right! Hell, if you and I can follow the rules, then they can't be that hard to follow.

[Liam]

I don't want a pass, however I do want people to ask questions for clarification. My experience has been that people make assumptions, over and over, and they are wrong.

I don't think most people should have a pass, however there are those whom I believe should. When a brain injury occurs, the functions of the neurons, nerve tracts, or sections of the brain can be effected. If the neurons and nerve tracts are effected, they can be unable or have difficulty carrying messages that tell the brain what to do. This can result in Thinking Changes, Physical Changes, and Personality and Behavioral Changes. These changes can be temporary or permanent. They may cause impairment or complete inability to perform a function. One of these impairments, which may occur concerns social competence, it is one of the most complex tasks our brain encounters, and for some it doesn't happen. If someone lacks skill in this area, it is unreasonable to demand that it occur. Anger and punishment only adds to their frustration, and they only know that they did something wrong, but are left without a clue as to how to fix it. A person can read, write, take care of themselves and not be able to grasp the nuances that many take for granted. Their style of communication may seem inappropriate, when they are angry, scared or excited. I think this kind of person should get a pass.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Liam

I don't want a pass, however I do want people to ask questions for clarification. My experience has been that people make assumptions, over and over, and they are wrong.

I don't think most people should have a pass, however there are those whom I believe should. When a brain injury occurs, the functions of the neurons, nerve tracts, or sections of the brain can be effected. If the neurons and nerve tracts are effected, they can be unable or have difficulty carrying messages that tell the brain what to do. This can result in Thinking Changes, Physical Changes, and Personality and Behavioral Changes. These changes can be temporary or permanent. They may cause impairment or complete inability to perform a function. One of these impairments, which may occur concerns social competence, it is one of the most complex tasks our brain encounters, and for some it doesn't happen. If someone lacks skill in this area, it is unreasonable to demand that it occur. Anger and punishment only adds to their frustration, and they only know that they did something wrong, but are left without a clue as to how to fix it. A person can read, write, take care of themselves and not be able to grasp the nuances that many take for granted. Their style of communication may seem inappropriate, when they are angry, scared or excited. I think this kind of person should get a pass.

So I have to ask you Liam, if this person has been asked a THOUSAND times to back off, and one has reiterated their boundaries time and time again with them I should give them a pass and fuck my safe space?

[Liam]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So I have to ask you Liam, if this person has been asked a THOUSAND times to back off, and one has reiterated their boundaries time and time again with them I should give them a pass and fuck my safe space?

If they have indeed been asked a thousand times and seem to not understand boundaries then, it would seem to me, that clearly they lack social competence, and they really don't know how to do what you would like them to do.

Would not putting them on ignore, maintain your safe space?