Male ID butch vs. FTM??

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Lee

Ive never seen Male Id butch before this website. I think i get the concept, ive read short explanations on a lot of other posts but I was wondering if someone would mind breaking down the difference between a Male ID Butch person and a FtM trans person?

Thanks
Lee

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Liam

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

I am confused by this statement. If someone tells me they are male, I consider them male and it doesn't have anything to do with them having surgery or taking T.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am confused by this statement. If someone tells me they are male, I consider them male and it doesn't have anything to do with them having surgery or taking T.

You bring up a very important point, Bulldog—not all FTMs have surgery and/or take testosterone.

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by Liam

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

No. I had a beautifully perfect female body that represented ITSELF as female. Inside, since the get go, I participated in male activities, and sexually, I ID as male. All my life I've wanted to transition, yet, I did'nt want to mess up my female body in any way.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

No. I had a beautifully perfect female body that represented ITSELF as female. Inside, since the get go, I participated in male activities, and sexually, I ID as male. All my life I've wanted to transition, yet, I did'nt want to mess up my female body in any way.

I have a few questions for you popcorninthesofa:

What do you mean when you say your female body represented itself as female?
What are male activities?
How are you using the word, "sexually," and what does it mean to sexually identify as male?

Thanks.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Liam

A male identified butch presents themselves as male. An FTM is male.

I disagree. I identify as a male id'd stone butch and as far as I am concerned I am male. Since I was a small child I couldn't think of myself as anything but. I am not just masculine, not just male presenting, but male. Part of the reason I identify as a male id'd stone instead of FtM is that FtM or trans anything has always, to me, implied going from female to male. Some have expressed that male id'd butches just don't want to get top surgery, go on T etc., but I don't think that's what defines a male id'd butch. For me when I do get top surgery, f.ex., I don't feel that I'll be taking a greater step toward transitioning to male because I already perceive myself as male. I've always been there mentally (not saying transguys haven't either, just trying to explain how my own mind processes my own characteristics), and I've spent the better part of my life sculpting my body physically to try to match where I am mentally as best I can.

So then why do I still insist on the stone butch part? Honestly, it's what I've comfortably grown into, was an important part of how I began to better understand myself and I don't see it as detracting from my "maleness" (or whatever you want to call it) in the least. It's perhaps more a descriptor of my own boundaries, and yet those boundaries, for lack of a better word, exist for me because I am male; yet a male who's physical body does not entirely match his mind.

Considering the differences of opinion here, I think what defines a male id'd butch varies from individual to individual. For me it's no different than simply being male.

[Lee]

Thank you all for your great responses. I think Im learning a lot here. Basically Male ID Butch is another gender label, and as we all know each person defines their own gender label in a very personal and individual way? Right?

So heres what ive heard (read?) :

Male ID Butches are generally men or male ID folks who choose not to alter their bodies with T or surgery but some Male ID Butches still see their physical body as female.
FtM Trans folks are men who did not start out with a male body and may or may not use T or surgery to change their body.

So do any Male ID Butches take T and have surgery, or does the T and surgery mean that you are FtM (I know that you dont HAVE to have T and surgery to be FtM, but im wondering if it works the other way around...everyone who takes T and has surgery is an FtM, rather than other labels like Male ID Butch)??

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...

Thanks
Lee

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Lee

Thank you all for your great responses. I think Im learning a lot here. Basically Male ID Butch is another gender label, and as we all know each person defines their own gender label in a very personal and individual way? Right?

So heres what ive heard (read?) :

Male ID Butches are generally men or male ID folks who choose not to alter their bodies with T or surgery but some Male ID Butches still see their physical body as female.
FtM Trans folks are men who did not start out with a male body and may or may not use T or surgery to change their body.

So do any Male ID Butches take T and have surgery, or does the T and surgery mean that you are FtM (I know that you dont HAVE to have T and surgery to be FtM, but im wondering if it works the other way around...everyone who takes T and has surgery is an FtM, rather than other labels like Male ID Butch)??

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...

Thanks
Lee

It is all purely subjective, from the person who wishes to ID themselves. There are no set rules or ways of gender expression. A FTM may or may not take T and FTM may or may not have surgery. It is up to that individual to make that distinction. A Male ID'd person may or may not take T a Male ID'd person may or may not have surgery, again it is all subjective and expressed individually.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Lee

Thank you all for your great responses. I think Im learning a lot here. Basically Male ID Butch is another gender label, and as we all know each person defines their own gender label in a very personal and individual way? Right?

So heres what ive heard (read?) :

Male ID Butches are generally men or male ID folks who choose not to alter their bodies with T or surgery but some Male ID Butches still see their physical body as female.
FtM Trans folks are men who did not start out with a male body and may or may not use T or surgery to change their body.

So do any Male ID Butches take T and have surgery, or does the T and surgery mean that you are FtM (I know that you dont HAVE to have T and surgery to be FtM, but im wondering if it works the other way around...everyone who takes T and has surgery is an FtM, rather than other labels like Male ID Butch)??

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...

Thanks
Lee

Lee, again, welcome to the site. The questions you are asking have been discussed many times here and on the other site. Please do not think I am saying your questions are redundant, they are not. I like the straight forward way you ask the question.

I cannot give you a big long answer that includes the "whys" right now because I am due at a meeting.

I am a masculine identified butch/ Transmasculine Butch and I have had surgery and I have been taking T for two years. I also use the label Transman at times.

Gotta go.

[Greyson]

Back. Lee there is no right way or wrong way to label your gender identity. That is entirely your decision. Many of us here came to our own personal gender identity through somewhat of an evolutionary process.

Let me step back and speak from the "I" perspective. For most of my adult life, I consciously identified as a Butch. In my thinking that put me in a sort of 3rd gender realm.

Now, for the past 20 years give or take a few years, it has become very possible for female bodied people to "transition."

For me, this "transition" is taking years and my transition is not restricted to hormones and surgeries. There is also the psychological, spiritual, and legal aspect to all of this, for me.

I identify as a "Transmasculine" Butch in part because I do not believe masculinity must be, can only be expressed as a male. "Masculinity" is present in both sexes and and all along the gender spectrum.

Legally, I am now a male but in many ways I am still working on what that looks like for me. For me I do not believe I am the same as a cisgendered man. Not all of the Butches, FTMs, bois believe the same as I do. And that is okay.

Finally, I have seen a few of us here change our ideas, and opinions about "gender" as we continue to discuss things here and live our lives in the world.

Good luck to you.

[Joe Mario]

Wow, this is a very interesting topic. The terms "male" and "man" still doesn't feel right for me.
The term male feels like "Bio-male" to me. I am still a sexual minority, not more than superficially assimilated with the hets.

TG Butch, as always before, still feels right for me.

[DamonK]

I'm not on T.
I've not had top surgery.

I have no intention of going on T.
Currently, I am not going to have top surgery. Regarding this, I have a plan that is a possibility. Healthwise, and emotionally, my plan fits my needs better.

That being said. I am a transguy. I don't need surgery or T to know this. I just am.

Someday, my outside will present more as my insides do. Hopefully within the next year.

I'm not FtM necessarily, I'm not male. I'm an unique person that embodies another third gender.

[Bad_boi]

I think it depends upon the person. There are so many pre-conceived ideas about what makes a man and what makes a woman. Same goes for butch and FTM. It is different for the individual.