Religious Holidays in Public Schools

Stearns · 07-25-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxnrope

In my experiences, subjects are taught by those who not only are members of a specific discipline, but who also have academic credentials. In progressive education, and in an interdisciplinary team approach, this CAN work quite well.

Waxnrope, how would it be decided which religions to teach? And, from what perspective would they be taught - As history? From a spiritual perspective? Patriarchy v. matriarchy? Oppression v. non-oppression? etc. Are you saying you would need a member from every religion taught to teach it?

Corkey · 07-25-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearns

Waxnrope, how would it be decided which religions to teach? And, from what perspective would they be taught - As history? From a spiritual perspective? Patriarchy v. matriarchy? Oppression v. non-oppression? etc. Are you saying you would need a member from every religion taught to teach it?

Not many Native American Shaman who have teaching credentials. This is a huge problem, the white teacher can't teach what they don't know.

Soon · 07-25-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey

Not many Native American Shaman who have teaching credentials. This is a huge problem, the white teacher can't teach what they don't know.

We recently had a white religion dept. head who was *teaching* a unit (gr. 12 World Religion) on Native religion(s). (I am sure she didn't know the multitude of different practices/beliefs for different tribes).

She had the students come into class with their faces painted, had them bang on some drums, and eat some desserts in simulation of her perception of a pow wow.

yep.

Corkey · 07-25-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

We recently had a white religion dept. head who was *teaching* a unit (gr. 12 World Religion) on Native religion(s). (I am sure she didn't know the multitude of different practices/beliefs for different tribes).

She had the students come into class with their faces painted, had them bang on some drums, and ate some desserts in simulation of her perception of a pow wow.

yep.

WOW, yep pretty offensive.

waxnrope · 07-25-2010, 04:19 PM

I cannot do multiple quotes from my phone. Your patience is appreciated. I cannot seem to make lengthy replies without the cursor jumping all around. So, succinct, and please ask for clarity.

Before I begin I wish it to be known that my approach to this subject arises from the perspective of a postcolonial scholar and as a POC. I also believe that NOT ALL white people are bad, even though I and my people have been irreparably harmed for centuries by SOME white people. It took a long time for me to get this. I also believe, and have learned through my studies of the multiplicity, the interrelatedness of things. Having said this, I will try my best to respond.

I have taught such a course, developed primarily in conjunction with a First Nation woman. And one can hardly teach every religion known to humankind. One looks upon the the culture/s of place, of the student body, and of the interests of both students and professors. We looked at current issues and prevailing problems. After spending months, and we argued, we presented our proposal. A course suitable in Berkeley, CA, might not be suitable for another city. We spent neatly half a year developing the course with various scholars from different religious backgrounds. We also had Elders and other wise people from SOME lesser known religions give thought to, and participate in the curriculum. We were determined, and it wore us out. It was difficult because we had so few models to guide us. But, yes, it is possible.

The example given by HSIN ... is that ignorant racialization or a religious issue?

waxnrope · 07-25-2010, 04:23 PM

Sorry, I had to submit my post prematurally. This is driving me batty. I'm just going to stop for a while and listen.
Thank you for the inquiry.

Corkey · 07-25-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxnrope

I cannot do multiple quotes from my phone. Your patience is appreciated. I cannot seem to make lengthy replies without the cursor jumping all around. So, succinct, and please ask for clarity.

Before I begin I wish it to be known that my approach to this subject arises from the perspective of a postcolonial scholar and as a POC. I also believe that NOT ALL white people are bad, even though I and my people have been irreparably harmed for centuries by SOME white people. It took a long time for me to get this. I also believe, and have learned through my studies of the multiplicity, the interrelatedness of things. Having said this, I will try my best to respond.

I have taught such a course, developed primarily in conjunction with a First Nation woman. And one can hardly teach every religion known to humankind. One looks upon the the culture/s of place, of the student body, and of the interests of both students and professors. We looked at current issues and prevailing problems. After spending months, and we argued, we presented our proposal. A course suitable in Berkeley, CA, might not be suitable for another city. We spent neatly half a year developing the course with various scholars from different religious backgrounds. We also had Elders and other wise people from SOME lesser known religions give thought to, and participate in the curriculum. We were determined, and it wore us out. It was difficult because we had so few models to guide us. But, yes, it is possible.

The example given by HSIN ... is that ignorant racialization or a religious issue?

Would you be able to give every school this type of endeavor? I think not, for there aren't many of our Elders left alive. Just because a white person or any one of another ethnic group studies Native Shamanism, it doesn't make them qualified to teach. Ours is just an example. I wouldn't want a Rabbi teaching Taoism, nor a priest teaching Buddhism. These are just a few examples, and I'm sure Pagan doesn't want a Roman Catholic priest issuing examples of Druidism. It just is improper and offensive to those who practice these religions.

ETA: college courses are a totally different subject, primary and high school do not have the resources of a college, nor are the students there as willing participants.
My .02

waxnrope · 07-25-2010, 05:01 PM

Corey, perhaps I was not clear: NO white person taught about First Nation religion. And, there were mote than one rabbi because, just as with Christianity, there are more than a single belief system. Which, I might add, seems to be a notion on this thread. Universalizing is the master's tool.

The idea was to see if two doctoral students COULD find a way to do it ... and if, in the paucity of our teaching experiences we could, than it should be possible for those who have mote experience to do so. Actually, it is kind of interesting in that you have the same objections da the conservative folk who nearly killed our project.

View Poll Results: what do you think about adding holidays to school calendars?
I think we need to be more inclusive and add other religious holidays	39	41.49%
I think we need to pare it down, we have too many	11	11.70%
I think we need to take all religious holidays out of public school calendars	27	28.72%
I don't care	17	18.09%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

07-25-2010, 04:19 PM	#5
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	I cannot do multiple quotes from my phone. Your patience is appreciated. I cannot seem to make lengthy replies without the cursor jumping all around. So, succinct, and please ask for clarity. Before I begin I wish it to be known that my approach to this subject arises from the perspective of a postcolonial scholar and as a POC. I also believe that NOT ALL white people are bad, even though I and my people have been irreparably harmed for centuries by SOME white people. It took a long time for me to get this. I also believe, and have learned through my studies of the multiplicity, the interrelatedness of things. Having said this, I will try my best to respond. I have taught such a course, developed primarily in conjunction with a First Nation woman. And one can hardly teach every religion known to humankind. One looks upon the the culture/s of place, of the student body, and of the interests of both students and professors. We looked at current issues and prevailing problems. After spending months, and we argued, we presented our proposal. A course suitable in Berkeley, CA, might not be suitable for another city. We spent neatly half a year developing the course with various scholars from different religious backgrounds. We also had Elders and other wise people from SOME lesser known religions give thought to, and participate in the curriculum. We were determined, and it wore us out. It was difficult because we had so few models to guide us. But, yes, it is possible. The example given by HSIN ... is that ignorant racialization or a religious issue?

07-25-2010, 04:23 PM	#6
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	Sorry, I had to submit my post prematurally. This is driving me batty. I'm just going to stop for a while and listen. Thank you for the inquiry.

07-25-2010, 05:01 PM	#8
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	Corey, perhaps I was not clear: NO white person taught about First Nation religion. And, there were mote than one rabbi because, just as with Christianity, there are more than a single belief system. Which, I might add, seems to be a notion on this thread. Universalizing is the master's tool. The idea was to see if two doctoral students COULD find a way to do it ... and if, in the paucity of our teaching experiences we could, than it should be possible for those who have mote experience to do so. Actually, it is kind of interesting in that you have the same objections da the conservative folk who nearly killed our project.