Gay Marriage until...a break up. Why Gays need to walk the walk.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by TenderKnight

Good topic.. You know, I have a lot of issues with Marriege anyway.. and the way that it has all panned out so far in the press and within the GLBT community, at least here in CA.

Do I think that GLBTQ folks should be held to a higher standard, no.. As others have stated, we are all humans and sometimes, shit happens. I don't think that just because one breaks up they aren't required to go through legal procedures, if they are together for an extended amount of time.

Blah.. I disagree with the whole *legal* thing anyway.. Are the folks fighting for gay marriege fighting for recognition as equal citizens, or are they fighting for the legal rights that straight folks get? *sighs* I'm not sure I'm even making sense, and I think that my beef needs it's own thread, lol.. Maybe I will start one.. In any case, I get what you mean about this example.. It seems to me that Melissa wants the best of both worlds.. The status of being MARRIED and the ease of just leaving when she wants without having to end the marrage.

I have no knowledge of the Etheridge situation (I only recently discovered that Ellen and Heche broke up, and that Madonna and Sean Penn are no longer an item), so I’m not the person to go to for commentary on celebratory happenings, but I do have very strong views on same-sex marriage.

I’m one of the fortunate ones whose marriage is legally recognized. I live in Canada. And for every one of those who has ever argued that the fight to have this happen is not important- I will be the most vocal in saying that they are wrong. Every form we fill in- the spouse column is always completed, a recent trip to the hospital meant that my voice was heard when seeking treatment for my wife who was too sick to speak for herself; my opinion is not disregarded by third parties when they only have her name as a contact and she’s not available. Because the law recognizes our relationship- regardless of any internal phobias, everyone who deals with us must also recognize it. Those who once used “Special friend” or any other words to describe our relationship can no longer do so without the embarrassment of being factually corrected.

To be able to enjoy all that is associated with being legally married, one has to understand that with that comes responsibility, including any consequences that are associated with divorce. The situation that SuperFemme is talking about seems like yet another sad example of why the fight for recognition of same sex marriages must be fought.

Separate to that I can not comment on the ethical way that Etheridge appears to have handled the break-up, but at face value this behaviour seems like a comment on her character- and something I hope any one considering a future with her pays special attention to. Something about a leopard not being able to change their spots…

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Converse

I

To be able to enjoy all that is associated with being legally married, one has to understand that with that comes responsibility, including any consequences that are associated with divorce. The situation that SuperFemme is talking about seems like yet another sad example of why the fight for recognition of same sex marriages must be fought.

Yes! That is exactly what I am speaking to.

[Apocalipstic]

Yes, I think if Gays marry we should have to get a real divorce.

But we don't know what is really happening? or do we? Personally?

In straight marriages almost no one get's alimony (I read 4%) any more and the court refused to give Tammy 25K beacause Melissa is paying all Tammy's bills according to court documents.

Melissa wants to share custody of the twins, Tammy wants 100% custody.

Next court date is in September.

I don't know what really happened, it should be interesting to see how the courts rule! I think comments on Melissa's character may be premature?

Intesting subject SF!

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Yes, I think if Gays marry we should have to get a real divorce.

But we don't know what is really happening? or do we? Personally?

In straight marriages almost no one get's alimony (I read 4%) any more and the court refused to give Tammy 25K beacause Melissa is paying all Tammy's bills according to court documents.

Melissa wants to share custody of the twins, Tammy wants 100% custody.

Next court date is in September.

I don't know what really happened, it should be interesting to see how the courts rule! I think comments on Melissa's character may be premature?

Intesting subject SF!

The line I bolded is what I want to talk about.

I don't know the particulars of the singers break up, nor do I want to. I was just using it as an example - of a visible queer that has advocated for Gay Marriage, and is not ending hers like everyone else who has been afforded that basic civil right.

Perhaps Melissa Etheridge was a bad example? I just read something about it and it made me start thinking, hence the subject in this thread.

[Corkey]

If Ami and I were to ever divorce one of us would have to live in Canada for 6 months to abide by the country's divorce laws. There are no easy solutions to divorce, just as entering into marriage is something of a serious act. I know those of us who are married here take our commitment very seriously. Divorce is serious as well, both for the financial and emotional aspects. A certain maturity is required to be married. That doesn't end when getting a divorce.
When I married Ami it was for the rest of my life, I made a conscious decision to work always on our marriage. I'm not a youngster who is still looking for the greener pastures. My life is full and wonderful.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Corkey

If Ami and I were to ever divorce one of us would have to live in Canada for 6 months to abide by the country's divorce laws. There are no easy solutions to divorce, just as entering into marriage is something of a serious act. I know those of us who are married here take our commitment very seriously. Divorce is serious as well, both for the financial and emotional aspects. A certain maturity is required to be married. That doesn't end when getting a divorce.
When I married Ami it was for the rest of my life, I made a conscious decision to work always on our marriage. I'm not a youngster who is still looking for the greener pastures. My life is full and wonderful.

I agree with you about the entire concept of marriage. I also agree with whomever it was that pointed out that marriage is the beginning of a journey...not the end of one.

It takes work, hard work sometimes. It also means that we should be aware of the consequences on each other and our families should the marriage end. By divorce or by death....

I don't think I'll ever get divorced, but if I did, I would sure not shirk my responsibilities. I would allow my kids a relationship, rather than using them as a tool as so often happens. I would not cut anyone out of our family using anti-gay ideology. Of course, that is "me", my views and I am not trying to project them on anyone else.

Over the past five years, being an activist for Gay Marriage here in CA and being in the trenches...with that raw emotion? I think I maybe take it too personally when I see a gay person who has a track record of being an activist for the same thing, do something so opposite I suppose.

As I mentioned, our marriage license is a love hate thing. I love that we have it, and have no idea at the moment if we are going to keep it, or if the repeal of our civil rights will erase it forever. It hurts my heart to see people I love filling out DP papers, rather than getting a license. I almost feel like a traitor sometimes.

I know lots of people think the word marriage is disposable, and the sticking point. That if we just call it something else, they'll acquiesce. I don't want something else. I want equal rights.

And I am prepared (as are thousands of my peers) to take those rights seriously, just like I take my marriage seriously.

[Corkey]

I wish we did live in a state that recognized our marriage, but it isn't this one. We aren't able to even have domestic partnerships or civil unions. We still have our documents to help protect us at hospitals, but that doesn't give us any protections as far as banking or federal rights others have. We can't combine our incomes into one joint account because of my SSDI. That however doesn't prevent us from maintaining our household as one unit. If I should die, Ami still wouldn't be able to get surviving spousal payments from Soc Sec. We have a long fight ahead of us, one I doubt I'll see the fruition of in my lifetime.

[SuperFemme]

NOM is making a tour of hate. Today they were in Madison Wisconsin.
NOM supports = 54 (one sign read that the solution to gay marriage was..and it showed a picture of two nooses).
Equality Protesters = 466

Here is a video of the protesters on the Equality side.
It makes me so proud of how hard we work, and how much our community is coming together. Maybe this post is off topic, I don't know.

[Hack]

I'm not a fan of marriage for myself, personally. I have no problem with what others want to do for themselves, of course. I think I hold myself to a higher standard because if I were to ever marry, it would be a one-time only, limited offer kind of thing. Call me old-fashioned in that Catholic-married-for-life kind of way. There's been exactly one woman who even stirred those thoughts in my little pointy head. And I think a big part of me considers that those feelings have come and now have gone. And probably won't be back. And I'm ok with that.

And, honestly, I find it hard to generate sympathy for yet another celebrity marriage -- gay, straight or otherwise -- that has fallen apart. Money, fame, celebrity does funny things to people that we can only pretend to understand.

Jake

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by Converse

I have no knowledge of the Etheridge situation (I only recently discovered that Ellen and Heche broke up, and that Madonna and Sean Penn are no longer an item), so I’m not the person to go to for commentary on celebratory happenings, but I do have very strong views on same-sex marriage.

I’m one of the fortunate ones whose marriage is legally recognized. I live in Canada. And for every one of those who has ever argued that the fight to have this happen is not important- I will be the most vocal in saying that they are wrong. Every form we fill in- the spouse column is always completed, a recent trip to the hospital meant that my voice was heard when seeking treatment for my wife who was too sick to speak for herself; my opinion is not disregarded by third parties when they only have her name as a contact and she’s not available. Because the law recognizes our relationship- regardless of any internal phobias, everyone who deals with us must also recognize it. Those who once used “Special friend” or any other words to describe our relationship can no longer do so without the embarrassment of being factually corrected.

To be able to enjoy all that is associated with being legally married, one has to understand that with that comes responsibility, including any consequences that are associated with divorce. The situation that SuperFemme is talking about seems like yet another sad example of why the fight for recognition of same sex marriages must be fought.

Separate to that I can not comment on the ethical way that Etheridge appears to have handled the break-up, but at face value this behaviour seems like a comment on her character- and something I hope any one considering a future with her pays special attention to. Something about a leopard not being able to change their spots…

Converse, thank you for this input.. You know, the legal right to be recognized IS important and I will fight fucking tooth and nail for it, I guess the word "marriage" triggers me on a lot of levels.. Will have to think on that one..