Lesbian Cougar Video--funny or not?

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Ender it doesn't matter whether the video makers intended to portray women in a negative light or not. Their intent very well may have been satire and they missed the mark.

However, it's the end product that matters- not their intent. They don't appear to know enough about lesbians or sexism or misogyny to effectively pull it off, and the end product is just degrading and insulting.

College frat boys are the ones that mostly rape college girls at parties where there has been lots of alcohol. Inserting an older lesbian for a frat boy doesn't make any sense and I fail to see how this is satire.

I have a question: how can you ascertain whether or not they have enough information about lesbians, sexism or misogyny if the point of the satire was to appear ignorant of all of the above? When feigned ignorance is what makes it satirical?

The creator is not trying to replace the frat boy with the older lesbian because he believes that lesbians actually behave in such a manner, but because that is how many in society view older lesbians. It is attempting to shed light on that stereotype and ridicule it. Again, making light of horrific situations is part of what makes satire effective and powerful. While this might not be the best attempt at it, I don't understand why there is such a huge backlash against it. Even well written satires are misunderstood by many and threaten to have an audience that does not fully understand its purpose.

Anyways, I can see we are going in circles, so I won't continue to the press the point.

On a side note, I don't find my age to be a valid argument against me, and I don't feel that I should be dismissed simply because I happen to be younger. If society were forever doing this, no new ideas would ever be brought into the mainstream. I am not claiming to be some kind of young 20-something genius, just that I can't see any logical justification whatever to dismissing me as ignorant because of my age. If you believe my age somehow does come into play, please explain exactly how. I'd be more than happy to hear your reasoning.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

On a side note, I don't find my age to be a valid argument against me, and I don't feel that I should be dismissed simply because I happen to be younger. If society were forever doing this, no new ideas would ever be brought into the mainstream. I am not claiming to be some kind of young 20-something genius, just that I can't see any logical justification whatever to dismissing me as ignorant because of my age. If you believe my age somehow does come into play, please explain exactly how. I'd be more than happy to hear your reasoning.

I agree. Everyone comes from a different walk in life that brings all kinds of knowledge to the table.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I have a question: how can you ascertain whether or not they have enough information about lesbians, sexism or misogyny if the point of the satire was to appear ignorant of all of the above? When feigned ignorance is what makes it satirical?

The creator is not trying to replace the frat boy with the older lesbian because he believes that lesbians actually behave in such a manner, but because that is how many in society view older lesbians. It is attempting to shed light on that stereotype and ridicule it. Again, making light of horrific situations is part of what makes satire effective and powerful. While this might not be the best attempt at it, I don't understand why there is such a huge backlash against it. Even well written satires are misunderstood by many and threaten to have an audience that does not fully understand its purpose.

Anyways, I can see we are going in circles, so I won't continue to the press the point.

On a side note, I don't find my age to be a valid argument against me, and I don't feel that I should be dismissed simply because I happen to be younger. If society were forever doing this, no new ideas would ever be brought into the mainstream. I am not claiming to be some kind of young 20-something genius, just that I can't see any logical justification whatever to dismissing me as ignorant because of my age. If you believe my age somehow does come into play, please explain exactly how. I'd be more than happy to hear your reasoning.

I don't understand why you are defending a lame piece of satire and ignoring the messages it is sending about women. Go read the comments on YouTube- that's where they distribute their videos. See if their "satiric" message is getting through or whether you see a bunch of misogynist, homophobic comments.

Satire- know your audience, know your subject material. Otherwise you are going to cause way more harm than good so don't even fucking bother, especially if it's going to reinforce violence against women and horrible stereotypes.

How do I know they don't know enough- I am a lesbian. It's obvious. I wouldn't be telling a transman, hey you are not getting the point of this hilarious piece of satire made by non-trans people. They are mocking the transphobes not trans people, really honest.

As to your age, you don't seem to taken into account the lived experiences those of us have had. And yes I find it irritating when someone much younger than me thinks I am not getting their point. I know what satire is, and I know how to read your posts. You think I am not getting your point. I want to know why you don't seem to be putting any effort in trying to understand why people are upset and take into account what they have to say about how women are portrayed and the rape and other experiences they endure rather than trying to point out how we are not getting your point. We know it's supposed to be satire. We don't need your help on that point.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Ender not trying to be mean, just being honest but this feels like you comin in here as a dude and telling the women to shut the fuck and just laugh at the funny.

It's kind of gross feeling.

Just being honest

[Corkey]

Satire, when done well, is funny as hell. Think Monty Python. This piece of garbage is sexist, homophobic, misogynistic and down right fucked up. It is sophomoric at best and it is just plane gross.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Ender not trying to be mean, just being honest but this feels like you comin in here as a dude and telling the women to shut the fuck and just laugh at the funny.

It's kind of gross feeling.

Just being honest

Just want to clarify (and I've stated it a few times now) that I don't actually see the video as funny. I think I wrote that even in the first post I made. I think whoever created it probably shouldn't quit their day job. I'm also not telling women, or anyone for that matter, to shut the fuck up and laugh (actually, kind of the opposite). If I wanted people to shut up, I wouldn't continue talking to them. If I didn't want the discussion to happen, I wouldn't start typing to begin with. What I'm trying to say is that if people are angry, fine, go ahead and be angry. But what I'm also trying to say is that it doesn't help anyone's cause to sit there and point fingers all day.

People keep bringing up how I identify, and I get that people think that because someone doesn't identify in a certain way that they don't understand what other people of that identification feel about a subject that directly concerns them. But honestly, where would we get if we started limiting people on what they have to say based on their gender identification? Am I supposed to agree just because I don't identify a certain way and couldn't "possibly understand"? What if I identified as female and a lesbian? Would people be more willing to listen, then? People also seem to think I don't care or want to care about how lesbians/female identified folks feel...that's not the case at all. I am understanding, truly I am, but understanding does not necessarily mean that I'm going to agree that this is the most productive way to go about addressing these issues, and the fact that I don't agree shouldn't mean that I don't respect those feelings. I just think that reacting on pure emotion can be counterproductive to raising awareness.

Not trying to be mean either, and also just being honest. If this is your polite way of saying "Ender, fuck off" then please tell me "Ender, fuck off." I promise not to take it personally. Until someone tells me to blatantly get lost, all I get is that you guys disagree with me, but still don't mind me continuing to discuss. But I'm slowly getting the impression that it's a polite/indirect "please, shut up now." Please tell me if it is.

[The_Lady_Snow]

It's not an Ender shut up or fuck off, I was merely voicing what it felt like to me.

Thanks for listening

[weatherboi]

hi everybody!!!

as a guy from this community that has loved femmes/lesbians it offends me to see the style of woman i love portrayed this way!!! in fact it just fuckin pisses me off!!!

as a guy from this community that loves women and has my own herstory i am offended by the disgusting way that this particular piece of "comedy" sets a tone for it to be ok to take advantage of women and have done enough work to understand how media like this goes against the fighting violence against women!!!

as a guy from this community i think it is important to say to others like me that have/will be gaining priviledge from transitioning that if this video did not offend you then you may need to revisit the mental work that comes with transitioning!!!

*notunderstandinghowyoucan'tseeitdancinglamb*

[imperfect_cupcake]

The creator is not trying to replace the frat boy with the older lesbian because he believes that lesbians actually behave in such a manner, but because that is how many in society view older lesbians. It is attempting to shed light on that stereotype and ridicule it. Again, making light of horrific situations is part of what makes satire effective and powerful. While this might not be the best attempt at it, I don't understand why there is such a huge backlash against it. Even well written satires are misunderstood by many and threaten to have an audience that does not fully understand its purpose.

by being misunderstood, I don't think it's being insinuated anyone is "dim" by the way. I think it's just the being able to see a picture one way and another, shifting the cube back and forth.

There's certain kinds of layerd irony in the way some of my friends take the piss that I have trouble understanding and I sometimes get upset and distressed. Mainly because of my cultural background and upbringing. Sometimes they have to re-assure me, it not meant that way.


I'm including a link to Nighty Night if some of you enjoy dark humour and satire.
I think you'll agree the absurdity shows more here and there's absolutely no suggestion they represent all women, nor are they encouraging people to treat pregnant people in this manner by abusing a pregnant woman.



this is much better written. and yes, I agree, bulldog and heart, know your audience or it doesn't work! but I still don't think that video was supporting rape, no more than this video is supporting the abuse of pregnant women.

[Heart]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

The creator is not trying to replace the frat boy with the older lesbian because he believes that lesbians actually behave in such a manner, but because that is how many in society view older lesbians.

See, I don't think so. I don't think there is a cultural impression of older lesbians as sex-craved cougars. That's a tried-and-true older straight woman stereotype. (Mrs. Robinson anyone?)

Older lesbians are stereotyped as sexless, humorless, birkenstock-wearing, man-hating, granola-eating separatists. Rarely have I seen older lesbians portrayed as sexual in any manner.

Seriously, this clip just makes no sense to me (older lesbian that I am). To do satire, you gotta know your tropes. And in not hitting its satirical mark, this clip ends up being pretty damn offensive.

Heart

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Heart

See, I don't think so. I don't think there is a cultural impression of older lesbians as sex-craved cougars. That's a tried-and-true older straight woman stereotype. (Mrs. Robinson anyone?)

Older lesbians are stereotyped as sexless, humorless, birkenstock-wearing, man-hating, granola-eating separatists. Rarely have I seen older lesbians portrayed as sexual in any manner.

Seriously, this clip just makes no sense to me (older lesbian that I am). To do satire, you gotta know your tropes. And in not hitting its satirical mark, this clip ends up being pretty damn offensive.

Heart

Our experiences on the matter are different, then. I can think of a few instances in American sitcoms and other television shows where older Lesbians are portrayed this way. Out of curiosity, are you speaking about your experience on a day to day basis, or in mainstream media, or both?

[Heart]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Our experiences on the matter are different, then. I can think of a few instances in American sitcoms and other television shows where older Lesbians are portrayed this way. Out of curiosity, are you speaking about your experience on a day to day basis, or in mainstream media, or both?

I'm speaking of my own contextual knowledge as an older lesbian. Yes, that includes personal experience, but also exposure to literature, visual media and culture, social networks, etc.

Ender -- your argument that cool heads would be better than "mud slinging" feels like it betrays your more academic arguments about satire. As a woman and a lesbian my answer to this question is, no. No, cooler heads do not necessarily prevail; no, objecting strenuously is not "mud-slinging;" no, I will not bank my anger if I think women are being degraded, and no, I am not interested in gaining "sympathy," in the face of offense, nor is my job always to school the offender. Sometimes all that is required is to take it down as loudly and messily as need be.

I'm not saying this is that situation, but calls for women (or any degraded group), to be calm are guaranteed to bring out the warrior in me because I can sniff out injustice like a bloodhound.

Heart

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I'm including a link to Nighty Night if some of you enjoy dark humour and satire.
I think you'll agree the absurdity shows more here and there's absolutely no suggestion they represent all women, nor are they encouraging people to treat pregnant people in this manner by abusing a pregnant woman.

I know I'm off topic and I do not care. I just have to say that when the brunette got into the stair-chair my first thought was "ooooh, I hope she falls down the stairs!". And she did.

I am satisfied.

[Stearns]

EnderD_, to be "schooled" on satire is, frankly, off-putting. It seems as though you are giving short shrift to this community's intelligence, wisdom, discernment and experience.

Additionally, a call for "cooler heads" by a male, among mostly women, is offensive and bespeaks of male superiority and privilege.

Anger is not a bad thing. After all, anger propelled the 19th Amendment, among many other rights that have been gained. Were it not for anger, mothers, sisters and wives would still be required to provide proof of a male relative's consent before being allowed to buy property or open even a checking account. I think this community knows what to do with its anger. It has, unfortunately, lots of experience with it.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I know I'm off topic and I do not care. I just have to say that when the brunette got into the stair-chair my first thought was "ooooh, I hope she falls down the stairs!". And she did.

I am satisfied.

you might also like

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=xRhD6qsQC3w&feature=fvsp

it's the entire second series to green wing. batty, weird and awkward english humour.

Set up is a bit difficult but one point important: Guy, who is a doctor, took the blonde Head of Administration out for a fast lay then they both discovered after the fact that she's his mother.

point two, the scottish insane woman is madly in love with the red haired doctor in a coma. she's jealous of his gf so is trying to either marry him while he's in a coma or steal some sperm to get pregnant.

it's very absurd and nonsequiture at times but it's fabulous

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

you might also like

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=xRhD6qsQC3w&feature=fvsp

it's the entire second series to green wing. batty, weird and awkward english humour.

Set up is a bit difficult but one point important: Guy, who is a doctor, took the blonde Head of Administration out for a fast lay then they both discovered after the fact that she's his mother.

point two, the scottish insane woman is madly in love with the red haired doctor in a coma. she's jealous of his gf so is trying to either marry him while he's in a coma or steal some sperm to get pregnant.

it's very absurd and nonsequiture at times but it's fabulous

I tried to watch it but

This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

I have no idea who this Channel 4 is, but they need to seriously check their bullshit meanypants hatred of Canada. *irate*

I am going to make a thread about this!

[Apocalipstic]

I thought the video was dumb. It was not funny no matter how I tried to look at it. Irony. satire, British humor....nah, did not do it for me. Just kind of sat there being dumb. Was I offended? no. But I think it is dangerous to even suggest that taking advantage of drunk girls, is funny.

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes and how many of these rapes are perpetuated by lesbians? The main point is that young women get raped and that is definitely not funny. It is also true that lesbians are doing very little, if any, of it.

I personally have been sexually assaulted by more than one Lesbian while I was drunk. Yes, I blame myself because I was drunk, but I said no and fought back....so saying that Lesbians are doing little, if any of it is a pipe dream.

Women can be predators and can and do rape other women.

I don't think it makes it better or worse to change it to frat boys. Either way, taking advantage of someone is just not funny.