Concealed weapons. Yes or No ???

afixer · 08-15-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldo

Out of curiosity have any of you who have a concealed weapons permit and/or carry regularly had a gun pulled on / leveled at you?

yes I have...once.
I was robbed at the place I was working and I let them have what they came in for, money.
I had a pistol in my boot and could have shot the perp as he left. that is not why I carry though.
I carry when I feel the need, for my safety.

waxnrope · 08-15-2010, 11:09 AM

I think that for me, one of the problems with this discussion are what one presupposes as innocent and law abiding. Historically, this position of what might be called rightness (and whiteness) those deemed to fit in this group and were either given tacit approval, legal approval, or permits, belonged to group who wielded power over others. Those denied such permissions were "law breakers" and others who were deemed "at risk."
As a POC and butch, I was assaulted by self proclaimed REDNECKS on the Burnside Bridge in Portland, Oregon some years ago. As a health care professional without a criminal record, I was denied a permit to carry, despite this experience. I didn't really want to, but like many here, wad frightened. A friend of a friend was on the Police force. He took me to a shooting range. Taught me safety and cleaning, then helped me bypass the prior denial to get my permit. I did buy a gun ... it was stolen@
! But I was both afraid about this and very glad.

Even though there have been occasions, for protection of self or material thongs (even my new kitchen sink wstill in the box was stolen), I never got another gun. I was really angered about the thefts, but realized that I didn't want to shoot some kid over a Friggin sink. Besides, Oakland PD being what it is (and if there were a reason to carry, they would be it ... for ME), I would likely be denied as a matter of course.

Sorry about the ramble.

Zora77 · 08-15-2010, 11:34 AM

After continuing to read this discussion I have moments where I feel proud to be German - which is a first!

Where to start - or continue? It makes shiver to read "growing up around guns". Every year there are thousands of children and teenagers who get killed as a result accidents involving guns. Apparently those law-abiding citizens do not all come with good parenting skills or the little bit of imagination it takes to figure out what could happen when your five year old gets his or her hands on the gun under mum's bed.

Stearns · 08-15-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zora77

After continuing to read this discussion I have moments where I feel proud to be German - which is a first!

Where to start - or continue? It makes shiver to read "growing up around guns". Every year there are thousands of children and teenagers who get killed as a result accidents involving guns. Apparently those law-abiding citizens do not all come with good parenting skills or the little bit of imagination it takes to figure out what could happen when your five year old gets his or her hands on the gun under mum's bed.

Zora, when people in the U.S. talk about growing up around guns, they don't just mean that their family had one in the house, stuck up in the closet somewhere or in a nightstand drawer. They mean that guns were essentially a part of life - used regularly for hunting, for shooting poisonous snakes in the yard or on the farm, for shooting predators of their livestock, etc. The children have been taught a healthy fear of and respect for the power of guns. They're not viewed as toys and we were not allowed to use or treat them as such. You were taught how to shoot them, under what circumstances you could shoot, and how to clean and take care of them. The worst mistake a parent can make is to have a gun in the house and think they're hiding it from their kids and, as a result, never teach their kids about it. Children know what's hiding in their parents' closets and drawers and they will be fascinated by and drawn to a gun. If the family is open and instructional, it takes away the fascination away and, therefore, the temptation to get it out to 'see how it works' and feels in one's hands.

waxnrope · 08-15-2010, 11:11 AM

I think that for me, one of the problems with this discussion are what one presupposes as innocent and law abiding. Historically, this position of what might be called rightness (and whiteness) those deemed to fit in this group and were either given tacit approval, legal approval, or permits, and belonged to group who wielded power over others. Those denied such permissions were "law breakers" and others who were deemed "at risk."
As a POC and butch, I was assaulted by self proclaimed REDNECKS on the Burnside Bridge in Portland, Oregon some years ago. As a health care professional without a criminal record, I was denied a permit to carry, despite this experience. I didn't really want to, but like many here, was frightened. A friend of a friend was on the Police force. He took me to a shooting range. Taught me safety and cleaning, then helped me bypass the prior denial to get my permit. I did buy a gun ... it was stolen@
! But I was both afraid about this and very glad.

Even though there have been occasions, for protection of self or material thongs (even my new kitchen sink wstill in the box was stolen), I never got another gun. I was really angered about the thefts, but realized that I didn't want to shoot some kid over a Friggin sink. Besides, Oakland PD being what it is (and if there were a reason to carry, they would be it ... for ME), I would likely be denied as a matter of course.

Sorry about the ramble.

BullDog · 08-15-2010, 11:24 AM

Good points Waxnrope. If ordinary citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons, does anyone really believe that young men of color or say visibly looking queer people are going to be given the same "right?"

As to police officers having guns, let's ask the people of color who live in Portland, OR if they feel safer knowing this.

waxnrope · 08-15-2010, 11:49 AM

I suspect that, just as one item on another thread a poster felt like a hamster, we are spinning around our own beliefs and convictions, the lines are drawn and no one will move or cross boundaries. Yet I hope that we all understand the fear that drives people to have a gum, albeit, those fears may be oppositional, thus noteworthy. I also hope that those who advocate the use and legal permission to carry guns realize that not everyone will have the right to do so

Meanwhile, criminals will continue to get and use guns. And SOME police and others given authority will abuse their rights. Ah, an armed nation, legal and illegally armed. Pass the popcorn, please.

betenoire · 08-15-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stearns

You cannot wipe out generations who used and viewed guns as a means of survival - for food and safety. Try stabbing a poisonous snake, go ahead.

This is a different time. Unless you live in the woods surrounded by bears and only get to eat what you personally kill - you do not need guns for food and safety. You do not need a gun on your person at the grocery store. You do not need a gun on your person at the post office. You do not need a gun on your person at a bar.

I can see how carrying a handgun can potentially make a shitty situation into a deadly situation. If somebody who has a gun is stealing your wallet and you reach for or mention your gun - he's going to shoot you. You have turned a situation where you could have lost your wallet and kept your life into a situation where you get to keep neither. But you're safer, how?

More guns is not going to solve the problem of violence in the US. Guns, handgun specifically, are an instrument of violence. On what planet does it make sense that you're going to stop violence by creating more violence?

Zora77 · 08-15-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Good points Waxnrope. If ordinary citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons, does anyone really believe that young men of color or say visibly looking queer people are going to be given the same "right?"

As to police officers having guns, let's ask the people of color who live in Portland, OR if they feel safer knowing this.

Thank you for mentioning this important aspect. I think it is not possible to fully understand the discussion on gun laws in this country without seeing it in the context of White Privilege. Here an excerpt from an interesting article by Tim Wise:

Imagine if the Tea Party was Black (by Tim Wise)

(...)

Imagine that hundreds of black protesters were to descend upon Washington DC and Northern Virginia, just a few miles from the Capitol and White House, armed with AK-47s, assorted handguns, and ammunition. And imagine that some of these protesters —the black protesters — spoke of the need for political revolution, and possibly even armed conflict in the event that laws they didn’t like were enforced by the government? Would these protester — these black protesters with guns — be seen as brave defenders of the Second Amendment, or would they be viewed by most whites as a danger to the republic? What if they were Arab-Americans? Because, after all, that’s what happened recently when white gun enthusiasts descended upon the nation’s capital, arms in hand, and verbally announced their readiness to make war on the country’s political leaders if the need arose.

(...)

(To read the full article go to: http://cosmicnavellint.blogspot.com/...-tim-wise.html)

08-15-2010, 11:11 AM	#5
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	I think that for me, one of the problems with this discussion are what one presupposes as innocent and law abiding. Historically, this position of what might be called rightness (and whiteness) those deemed to fit in this group and were either given tacit approval, legal approval, or permits, and belonged to group who wielded power over others. Those denied such permissions were "law breakers" and others who were deemed "at risk." As a POC and butch, I was assaulted by self proclaimed REDNECKS on the Burnside Bridge in Portland, Oregon some years ago. As a health care professional without a criminal record, I was denied a permit to carry, despite this experience. I didn't really want to, but like many here, was frightened. A friend of a friend was on the Police force. He took me to a shooting range. Taught me safety and cleaning, then helped me bypass the prior denial to get my permit. I did buy a gun ... it was stolen@ ! But I was both afraid about this and very glad. Even though there have been occasions, for protection of self or material thongs (even my new kitchen sink wstill in the box was stolen), I never got another gun. I was really angered about the thefts, but realized that I didn't want to shoot some kid over a Friggin sink. Besides, Oakland PD being what it is (and if there were a reason to carry, they would be it ... for ME), I would likely be denied as a matter of course. Sorry about the ramble. Last edited by waxnrope; 08-15-2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason: dumbass phone duplicated message. now i cant delete. aargh

08-15-2010, 11:24 AM	#6
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Good points Waxnrope. If ordinary citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons, does anyone really believe that young men of color or say visibly looking queer people are going to be given the same "right?" As to police officers having guns, let's ask the people of color who live in Portland, OR if they feel safer knowing this. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

08-15-2010, 11:09 AM	#2
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	I think that for me, one of the problems with this discussion are what one presupposes as innocent and law abiding. Historically, this position of what might be called rightness (and whiteness) those deemed to fit in this group and were either given tacit approval, legal approval, or permits, belonged to group who wielded power over others. Those denied such permissions were "law breakers" and others who were deemed "at risk." As a POC and butch, I was assaulted by self proclaimed REDNECKS on the Burnside Bridge in Portland, Oregon some years ago. As a health care professional without a criminal record, I was denied a permit to carry, despite this experience. I didn't really want to, but like many here, wad frightened. A friend of a friend was on the Police force. He took me to a shooting range. Taught me safety and cleaning, then helped me bypass the prior denial to get my permit. I did buy a gun ... it was stolen@ ! But I was both afraid about this and very glad. Even though there have been occasions, for protection of self or material thongs (even my new kitchen sink wstill in the box was stolen), I never got another gun. I was really angered about the thefts, but realized that I didn't want to shoot some kid over a Friggin sink. Besides, Oakland PD being what it is (and if there were a reason to carry, they would be it ... for ME), I would likely be denied as a matter of course. Sorry about the ramble.

08-15-2010, 11:34 AM	#3
Zora77 Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 58 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 72 Thanked 121 Times in 37 Posts Rep Power: 175636	After continuing to read this discussion I have moments where I feel proud to be German - which is a first! Where to start - or continue? It makes shiver to read "growing up around guns". Every year there are thousands of children and teenagers who get killed as a result accidents involving guns. Apparently those law-abiding citizens do not all come with good parenting skills or the little bit of imagination it takes to figure out what could happen when your five year old gets his or her hands on the gun under mum's bed.

08-15-2010, 11:49 AM	#7
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	I suspect that, just as one item on another thread a poster felt like a hamster, we are spinning around our own beliefs and convictions, the lines are drawn and no one will move or cross boundaries. Yet I hope that we all understand the fear that drives people to have a gum, albeit, those fears may be oppositional, thus noteworthy. I also hope that those who advocate the use and legal permission to carry guns realize that not everyone will have the right to do so Meanwhile, criminals will continue to get and use guns. And SOME police and others given authority will abuse their rights. Ah, an armed nation, legal and illegally armed. Pass the popcorn, please.