Islam & the Muslim faith- banishing myths

[Glenn]

This is what is being taught in conservative christian theological seminarys that is causing derision among Christians and Moslems:

Jesus- Died and rose from the dead.
Muhammad- Dies and stays dead.
Jesus-Never fought.
Muhammad- Fought many many times.
Jesus- When Jesus heard from God he went to the desert to be tempted and began his ministry with boldness (Mark 1:14-15}
Muhammed- Was uncertain and wanted to commit suicide (Quran 74:1-5)
Jesus- Claimed ti be God as well as man
Muhammed- Claimed to be a man.
Jesus- Instructions received from God the Father.
Muhammed- From an angel.
Jesus- Never killed anyone.
Muhammed- Killed many.
Jesus- Had the power to take life, but never did. He restored it.
Muhammed- Had the power to take it, but never restored it.
Jesus-Never married.
Muhammad- Had over 20 wives including a 9 year old girl.
Jesus- Spoke well of womwn.
Muhammad-Said women were one half as smart as men(Hadith3:826;2:541) That the majority in hell would be women (Had 1:28,301, 2:161;7:124) That women could be mortgaged .

[lipstixgal]

I have Muslims friends and they are alright, bright and friendly I see nothing wrong with being a Muslim..I'm Jewish and we are not liked by any stretch of the means so who am I to judge them!! But it is interesting to see the similarities between Muslim religion and the Jewish religion!!

[MsMerrick]

Just a note about having more than 1 wife.
At the time Muhammad lived, women were worth less than Camels. Seriously.
The whole notion, that if one had sex with a woman, you had to marry her.. first..which meant you had to provide for her, was very radical. Like it or not, that was actually a very good thing for women, at the time. They had no rights, and no worth, and were considered less than Camels. Insisting that men had to marry them ie provide for them, was very uplifting, at that time..

[Heart]

Efforts at understanding are important. De-mystifying and un-demonizing is crucial.

That said - I do NOT grant Islam, or any religion, a pass when it comes to patriarchal, oppressive beliefs about girls and women. I do not abide by any religion's conviction of their supremacy or "chosen-ness." I do NOT accept cultural relativism when it comes to abuse or violence-in-the-name-of.

Most of all, I hate the hypocrisy of traditional organized religions, including Islam.

Islam is no worse, and no better, than any global, organized religion, but it does currently gets "othered," in ways that are clearly the result of fear, ignorance, racism and bias.

Like other religions, there exists in Islam a continuum from secular to reform to moderate to conservative to fundamentalist. We are living in times when ALL kinds of fundamentalism is on the rise, coupled with an ever-shrinking globe, the proliferation of weaponry, and information and mis-information that travels at lightening speed. It is a time of extremes and extremism. That, not religious beliefs and not Islam, is the danger.

Heart

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Heart

Efforts at understanding are important. De-mystifying and un-demonizing is crucial.

That said - I do NOT grant Islam, or any religion, a pass when it comes to patriarchal, oppressive beliefs about girls and women. I do not abide by any religion's conviction of their supremacy or "chosen-ness." I do NOT accept cultural relativism when it comes to abuse or violence-in-the-name-of.

Most of all, I hate the hypocrisy of traditional organized religions, including Islam.

Islam is no worse, and no better, than any global, organized religion, but it does currently gets "othered," in ways that are clearly the result of fear, ignorance, racism and bias.

Like other religions, there exists in Islam a continuum from secular to reform to moderate to conservative to fundamentalist. We are living in times when ALL kinds of fundamentalism is on the rise, coupled with an ever-shrinking globe, the proliferation of weaponry, and information and mis-information that travels at lightening speed. It is a time of extremes and extremism. That, not religious beliefs and not Islam, is the danger.

Heart

Yes, the one most significant reason I cannot be a part of organized religion is this very thing.... all (including what I grew up with) of the major religions of the world have this patriarchal oppression of women and girls within their ideological foundations.

My main interest here is about current US demonizing of Islam and the Muslim faith. As with most things, I do gai9n some hope when seeing what you describe as more secular to reform to or even moderate movements within major religions. Yet, I don't know that the patriarchal foundations of any of them will ever be shattered.

Throughout my life I have had a difficult time with being able to find a spiritual path that I could integrate into my life as a balancing influence and for me this is just important. The hypocrisy factor has always been the major stumbling block- I even felt this way as a young kid. I also did have mother that was not afraid to voice her inability to accept much of the Catholic doctrine that she was reared within even as a woman born in 1917 to a very devout Latin background. At age 7, I remember her marching up to a nun that had scared the shit out of me about mortal sin saying, children do not sin! She took me out of the school afterwards and just gave me her side of Catholicism as she utilized it for herself. Thank you, Momma! I know she met with a lot of wrath my grandparents over this. Although, her own mother became Pagan in later years. And what is interesting is that I believe she was a very faith-based woman in some ways. That base was one of questioning and only applying what she could follow as a human being.

It is possible to find a spiritual, or even what I believe to be faith outside of patriarchy, but a struggle. And one not everyone even wants to be part of.

No, I would not be any more inclined to become Muslim than Christian again, or Jewish, but, I do see the current hate about Islam to be very destructive.

Oh and cultural-relativism! My days in child protective services with Southeast Asian populations certainly put me at odds with it in many ways. And I have a very strong sense of ethnic culture personally. Then there was a bout with working with child sexual abuse and having perps cite various religious doctrines to deny their actions as being wrong!

[Soft*Silver]

Rook...I am so glad you joined in and told us your personal experience. I love your momma too! LOL.

I am learning so much, and am glad not to walk around with an empty spot where knowledge should be.

thanks to everyone for posting!

[AtLast]

I am wondering about a couple of things...

One, what is the breakdown (if known) in the US in terms of more reformist or I guess moderate Muslims?

Also, it was mentioned that there are "feminist" Muslim mosques with followers. I am interested in the really how feminist this is - are they based upon an integration of any particular feminist theoretical base? And is there movement toward women taking position as holy people in the same way men are? Or, is this more about women having a place to pray without any re-interpretation of Muslim doctrine?

The other thing that is on my mind is the continuation of media coverage of the proposed community center and prayer room in NYC. My understanding that this is not really a mosque, yet today on "Meet the Press," discussion of this still being called the "Ground Zero Mosque" was the same. This was after several political programs throughout last week with Muslim guests pointed out that is a community center.

Lastly, I am wondering about US Muslims thoughts about the fact that after such statements from the likes of Newt Ginrich comparing this to "placing a swastika next to the Holocaust museum" have not brought outrage. One analyst on Zmeet the Press tonday brought this up in terms of how a statement like that pointed at any other minority would cause quite a stir and not just by those within the minority group. I think she is right. POC as well as whites had a hell of a lot to say about Dr. Laura's little rant last week!

[Rook]

Good Morning..

Softness,
I'll pass the sentiment on to her

AtLast,
I'll try to tackle this from different angles..
I can't really say much in the "holy" area, because technically, there Really shouldn't be any "holy" people, that is why the Prophet is called "The Seal of Prophets", it means 'That's it, no more, this is the last of 'em"...
There are, of course, women that have important Status, alongside men in Islamic history.
To name a few, Maryam [mary, jesus mother], Khadījah bint Khuwaylid, Aisha bint Abu Bakr [Aisha is shrouded in controversy, and many anti-Islamic rhetoric thoroughly enjoy pointing grossly uneducated fingers at her story]
That Shi'ite sects place certain men on a pedestal of holiness, is irrelevant {not to mention Bid‘ah & borderline idolatry}
As for the Feminist Mosques, I'm not sure those exist.
Feminist Muslims, however, different story.
To my understanding, Feminism is about granting women Equal rights, and choice..
A muslim that is Feminist will demand her right to refuse marriage, to Inherit her parents estate, whether to have kids or not, able to Work as long as her children are taken care of {If she works, her income is hers to with as she pleases, the Bills are usually paid for by the Spouse, unless mutually agreed prior to working that she'll Help}, her right to Study on a Collegiate level.
And yes, her right to attend Khutbah on Fridays.

As for Newt's idiotic comment, there's always bound to be some asshat with an opnion in this country, that's why 1st ammendment exists.
However, what's good for the goose, is good for the Gander, soooo...I hope he can take the Heat.
Besides, the Swastika, if memory serves, was meant to be a religious Symbol to this day in Hinduism, Jainism & Buddhism, before the Nazi's had a collective brainfart and used it.

I'm out of time for more, hopefully this helps a little..