Beck and Palin

[Nat]

These people scare the crap out of me. I didn't watch. Beck grosses me out. Palin too - in a different way. I don't blame religion. I blame human nature. Human pack behavior. Human gullibility. Human brain-laziness. Human lack of compassion. Etc.

[Nat]

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Toughy

depending on who asks, how they ask and what they ask........somewhere between 25-35% of white folks in this country.......it's been that way ever since I have followed politics..........the last time this happened it was over the 'Godless communists' with Senator Joe McCarthy

that said..........the 'God sent me to do this' thing is getting truly truly scary.....really scary...this just seems really different............the lies keep being repeated and the media reports it like fact.......truth is a lie and the lie is the truth....so the media says.........

I grew up with "god told me to" how does one argue with that which makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

I can't wait to see what the Daily Show has to say about this whole thing.

I know...I am eat up. I can
t wait! We are taping them...Colbert too and Oberman and Rachel.

Originally Posted by theoddz

I think that, since times are so tough now with unemployment, scaled back social services, people who have fallen on hard times find solace in religion. Who was it, Karl Marx who said that "Religion is the opium of the people."??

Oh, okay, here's the quote:

"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." -- Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

~Theo~

True and SCARY.
I don't agree with the part about abolishing religion to make people happy...but otherwise, I agree with Marx...Yes, I lean very far to the left, but stop at the forcing people to give it up.

Originally Posted by Nat

These people scare the crap out of me. I didn't watch. Beck grosses me out. Palin too - in a different way. I don't blame religion. I blame human nature. Human pack behavior. Human gullibility. Human brain-laziness. Human lack of compassion. Etc.

Cynthia was watching, so I watched with her.

I agree that everything falls apart when people are involved. Human nature freaks me out.

[theoddz]

Oh, I wasn't trying to state that I thought religion out to be abolished. I don't believe that, but I do agree with Marx that people, as a group, tend to gravitate more to it during hard times.

We're living in terribly difficult times now. People are clinging to whatever gives them hope and religion has often filled that need. It gives solace, but at the same time, there's enough double-talk and room for interpretation in various religious scriptures to give people with lost hope plenty of license to blame or condemn others.

One of the big reasons that Hitler was so able to "hypnotize" the masses was that, after the defeat they suffered in WW1, the German people were demoralized and their country, particularly the economy, was in shambles. In this case, Hitler was able to utilize Nationalism as a tool to garner support for his extremist and evil goals. We're seeing that again, like yesterday's Beck Rally....emotionalism hyped up by appealing to the conservative American's sense of national pride, patriotism and religious convictions. Same thing happened in Nazi Germany.

I think this is what I find so squicky/scary. Yes, it is "pack mentality"....at its worst and most dangerous.

~Theo~

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by theoddz

One of the big reasons that Hitler was so able to "hypnotize" the masses was that, after the defeat they suffered in WW1, the German people were demoralized and their country, particularly the economy, was in shambles. In this case, Hitler was able to utilize Nationalism as a tool to garner support for his extremist and evil goals. We're seeing that again, like yesterday's Beck Rally....emotionalism hyped up by appealing to the conservative American's sense of national pride, patriotism and religious convictions. Same thing happened in Nazi Germany.

I think this is what I find so squicky/scary. Yes, it is "pack mentality"....at its worst and most dangerous.

~Theo~

Funny you should bring up Germany in the 30s. I'm currently listening to William Shrier's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" as an audio book as research material for a sci-fi novel I am in the planning stages of. What's instructive to me is just how eagerly the German people ate up what the Nazi's were dishing out and how utterly supine all but, for the most part, the Communists were when Hitler was ascendant but had not yet seized the reins of power. It is interesting to watch this (and I wish I were watching it from *outside* our borders right now) what seems to be a classical proto-fascist movement.

Most of the elements from Umberto Eco's essay, Ur-Fascism, appears to be present in the American Right. (My commentary in parenthesis) To wit:

1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition...This new culture had to be syncretistic. Syncretism is not only, as the dictionary says, "the combination of different forms of belief or practice"; such a combination must tolerate contradictions. Each of the original messages contains a sliver of wisdom, and whenever they seem to say different or incompatible things it is only because all are alluding, allegorically, to the same primeval truth.
As a consequence, there can be no advancement of learning. Truth has been already spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message. (They believe that they know both the Bible *and* the Constitution and that both the words and the *understanding* of those words are fixed for all time.)

2. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism...The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modem depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.

3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake. Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes. Distrust of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of Ur-Fascism, from Goeringís alleged statement ("When I hear talk of culture I reach for my gun") to the frequent use of such expressions as "degenerate intellectual," "eggheads," "effete snobs," "universities a nest of reds." (Liberal elites, the 'lamestream media', 'unelected judges'...)

4. No syncretistic faith can withstand analytical criticism. The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge. For Ur-Fascism, disagreement is treason.

5. Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity. Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks for consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference. The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition. (Muslims, Hispanics, Arabs, immigrants)

6. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration. That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups. In our time, when the old "proletarians" are becoming petty bourgeois (and the lumpen are largely excluded from the political scene), the fascism of tomorrow will find its audience in this new majority.

7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country. This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside. In the US, a prominent instance of the plot obsession is to be found in Pat Robertsonís The New World Order, but, as we have recently seen, there are many others. (Muslims have had this role foisted upon them.)

8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. (Mostly this is targeted at queer people but you also see this playing out in "their taking our jobs")

9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare.

10. Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak. Ur-Fascism can only advocate a popular elitism. Every citizen belongs to the best people of the world, the members of the party are the best among the citizens, every citizen can (or ought to) become a member of the party.

11. In such a perspective everybody is educated to become a hero. In every mythology the hero is an exceptional being, but in Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.

12. Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters.

13. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say. In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but the citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a quantitative point of viewóone follows the decisions of the majority.

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. Newspeak was invented by Orwell, in 1984. as the official language of Ingsoc, English Socialism. But elements of Ur-Fascism are common to different forms of dictatorship.

Almost all of 14 elements above were on display at Beckapalooza on Saturday and, more broadly, in the American Right at present.

Cheers
Aj

[Corkey]

http://www.leftake.com/diary/2696/gl...onfused-savior

Found this an interesting, and rational read. Not Becks part mind you but the authors.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Nat

lmaooooooooooooooooo

"you know where you are"

really????