It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[The_Lady_Snow]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,1667617.story


"
"Brewer condemns State Department for mentioning Arizona law in human rights report to UN"

[Nat]

From the Economist

After SB1070
Adios Arizona

Lots of people are leaving

Nov 25th 2010

ARIZONA has changed a lot since April, when the state passed a tough new law against illegal immigrants. Known as SB1070, and controversial both because it could lead to discrimination against Latinos and because it usurps a federal prerogative, the law has not fully taken effect, and perhaps never will. A federal judge suspended parts of SB1070 in July, and it is now in an appeals court in San Francisco. But life has changed nonetheless.

In downtown Phoenix, usually a tidy and dull place, neo-Nazi supporters of the law recently confronted pro-immigrant demonstrators, and police had to spray tear gas. There are fewer concerts in the state because hundreds of singers and bands have joined in a boycott, called “The Sound Strike”. Business is also down sharply in the state’s convention industry. The Centre for American Progress, a think-tank based in Washington, DC, reckons Arizona has lost $217m in spending by conference visitors and $388m in economic output from cancellations and booking declines in this and the next two years.

Of course the law has had the biggest effect on immigrants, both legal and illegal, and Latinos generally. Researchers at BBVA Bancomer, a Mexican bank, this month estimated that 100,000 Hispanics, mostly of Mexican descent, have already left Arizona, for Mexico or for other states, because of SB1070. This means a lot of upheaval for families and individuals, and for Arizona’s economy. Ethnic Mexicans, whether native or immigrant, are younger on average than Anglos, reducing the average age of greying Arizona’s population. And immigrants pay more in taxes than they send to Mexico in remittances. Above all, they tend to have jobs—on construction sites, in hotels and homes—that do not replace but complement American jobs, according to BBVA Bancomer. A permanent decline in the immigrant population could thus destroy many more jobs than just those of the immigrants.

But Arizonans seem to regard these costs as acceptable, given that most of them continue to support SB1070. This month they re-elected Jan Brewer, the Republican governor who signed the law and was known for little else. Russell Pearce, the author of SB1070, has been chosen as the next president of the state Senate. He wants to follow up with more in the same vein.

[asphaltcowboi]

gawd i dont like this thread... az is my home and i love it.. i dont always like what the gov. does here.. but there is so much more to this state that i will not boycot.. also there are still alot of unthuths about this..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by cody

gawd i dont like this thread... az is my home and i love it.. i dont always like what the gov. does here.. but there is so much more to this state that i will not boycot.. also there are still alot of unthuths about this..

Hey Cody, I am a bit confused about your statement. Do you feel the things we posted are untruths?

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Hey Cody, I am a bit confused about your statement. Do you feel the things we posted are untruths?

no i think some of the media has cause some untruths to be stated and repeated as truth..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by cody

no i think some of the media has cause some untruths to be stated and repeated as truth..

Really cause your Governor was very clear about what she was lying about. Do you mean her lies about mexicans and how we are running around cutting heads off and leaving them in Arizona deserts?

Or this lie?

I am trying to understand what you mean by untruths. Or are you saying your government in that state is full of lying, hateful, racist jerks.

Thank you for the dialogue

[Julie]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Really cause your Governor was very clear about what she was lying about. Do you mean her lies about mexicans and how we are running around cutting heads off and leaving them in Arizona deserts?

Or this lie?

I am trying to understand what you mean by untruths. Or are you saying your government in that state is full of lying, hateful, racist jerks.

Thank you for the dialogue

Propaganda... 2010 Propaganda (above )
Propaganda---1930's Propaganda



I am pretty blown away that this billboard which Snow post, is legal. I am shocked. I read the article, and I am really hoping what I have read is true about the decline of tourism, etc in Arizona - that Arizona is losing money. I hope and I am sorry Cody - that Arizona collapses.

P.S.... Propaganda Kills... Just ask the survivors of any country who have experienced Racial Cleansing. Remember Rwanda?

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Really cause your Governor was very clear about what she was lying about. Do you mean her lies about mexicans and how we are running around cutting heads off and leaving them in Arizona deserts?

Or this lie?

I am trying to understand what you mean by untruths. Or are you saying your government in that state is full of lying, hateful, racist jerks.

Thank you for the dialogue

yes our government here is messed up.. lack of eductation yes.. i am saying alot of the stories have been blown way out of perportion then discribed in the media as such.. and yes there are many horiable truths also..
az is not as bad as alot precieve it to be and alot of the same things happen in the other "boarder states" .. not just az..
i am not a hater by anymeans.. but if you want to come to the states from canada,russia mexico or anywhere else please take the legal steps to do so..
i am aware its difficult for latinos here when they are pulled over out of random because they have the "look" at the same time i feel we need to get a grip on the influx of people blue eyed or brown eyed that come here esp. to suthern az. we are already a "broke" state and have no way to tax illeagles for servces rendered .. medical.. housing..ect..
as a whole this is an awsome state there would be no reason for the words boycot az if so many people didnt love it here and want to live here. its is painful when i see the words boycot az. yes we need help with many issues as do may states.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by cody

gawd i dont like this thread... az is my home and i love it.. i dont always like what the gov. does here.. but there is so much more to this state that i will not boycot.. also there are still alot of unthuths about this..

And another thing.
Too bad you don't like this thread - while you sit in your air conditioned home on your computer - You don't like this thread.

Well... People don't like being bludgeoned and forced to pull their babies out of school and told to leave the safety of their homes. Where will they go? Perhaps they will live in cars or on the streets. They will be exposed to the elements and dark of the night. The bad people.

So, you continue hating this thread, while there are people forced to expel Arizona and become one of the forgotten.

I am done!

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

And another thing.
Too bad you don't like this thread - while you sit in your air conditioned home on your computer - You don't like this thread.

Well... People don't like being bludgeoned and forced to pull their babies out of school and told to leave the safety of their homes. Where will they go? Perhaps they will live in cars or on the streets. They will be exposed to the elements and dark of the night. The bad people.

So, you continue hating this thread, while there are people forced to expel Arizona and become one of the forgotten.

I am done!

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love my home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by cody

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love me home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

No one is bashing you Cody, you came to a thread that was started to discuss the bullshit that was going on at the time politically.

First they pass the Birther legislation. Now, Governor Brewer just signed SB 1070, the "Papers Please" law. Now any brown person in AZ can be stopped at any time by any cop and forced to prove that they are in the country legally. State officials claim that they won't profile, but I'm seriously doubting that the police are going to go around asking white folks to produce papers.

Polls show that 70% of residents support SB1070.

What has happened what is happening is fact, if Ohio did the same thing I would be just as adamant about not giving them my money.

I will NOT support anything that treats humans worse than animals and THAT is what your State's Government did, they painted a big ol' target on anyone who has what you call

"that look"

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by cody

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love my home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

to borrow a phrase:
the personal IS political.

You *do* live in a physically beautiful state which is full of good people AND racist politicians and politics.

There are undocumented immigrants living in every state in this country, doing jobs that millions of unemployed "legal" citizens have no interest in, trying to build a life that is safe for themselves and their families.

Undocumented immigrants do NOT receive free housing. They do NOT receive free medical care. They are NOT taking jobs other people want. They are NOT negatively impacting the state of our public education systems. These are myths, very dangerous myths that allow people, like your state's politicians to pass very dangerous legislation with truly dire consequences - not just for anyone who looks non-white in Arizona, but for all non-white people in this country AND more broadly for our society as a whole.

This country IS a giant mess: economically, socially and politically - and none of the blame for that mess can be laid at the feet of immigrants (documented or undocumented); regardless of how convenient a scape goat they may be.

Arizona is a state I would love to explore, as a tourist; it is indeed full of natural beauty.
However, I will not be spending my dollars there while this legislation continues to exist.
I will feel the same way about Florida or Texas or any other state that tries to/and or successfully implements laws that are hateful, racist and create enormous divisions among us.

It is important, to me, that I am an educated voter, active politically and a conscious consumer.

Arizona citizens with the right to vote can help to reverse these horrible laws; I hope they do.

[weatherboi]

i think it sucks that most often times when a conversation like this goes down because a person decides they want to impression upon a community some kind of ism that works for them, and they go into defensive mode and conveinently pull out their native american status. i for one find it offensive and a form of deflection that enables them to be less accountable for their ist and ism views.

however beautiful Arizona may be, i commend our community members for packing up their chuck wagons and leaving the bullshit behind. it had to be a strategically rough decision and i for one feel lots of admiration for their actions to get the hell out of a state that racially profiles their citizens and their tourist visitors!!!

ohhhh and Arizona has always been a racist state...in 1991 the governor there decided to no longer recognize martin luther king day. i think his name was Mecham!!! ohhh and russell pearce i think is his name, an Arizona law maker that supports the white supremacy group National Alliance. i think they cosponsored and helped write the bill.

Public Enemy did a song about it back in the 90's...i heard the first time when i went to see them in atlanta.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

to borrow a phrase:
the personal IS political.

You *do* live in a physically beautiful state which is full of good people AND racist politicians and politics.

There are undocumented immigrants living in every state in this country, doing jobs that millions of unemployed "legal" citizens have no interest in, trying to build a life that is safe for themselves and their families.

Undocumented immigrants do NOT receive free housing. They do NOT receive free medical care. They are NOT taking jobs other people want. They are NOT negatively impacting the state of our public education systems. These are myths, very dangerous myths that allow people, like your state's politicians to pass very dangerous legislation with truly dire consequences - not just for anyone who looks non-white in Arizona, but for all non-white people in this country AND more broadly for our society as a whole.

This country IS a giant mess: economically, socially and politically - and none of the blame for that mess can be laid at the feet of immigrants (documented or undocumented); regardless of how convenient a scape goat they may be.

Arizona is a state I would love to explore, as a tourist; it is indeed full of natural beauty.
However, I will not be spending my dollars there while this legislation continues to exist.
I will feel the same way about Florida or Texas or any other state that tries to/and or successfully implements laws that are hateful, racist and create enormous divisions among us.

It is important, to me, that I am an educated voter, active politically and a conscious consumer.

Arizona citizens with the right to vote can help to reverse these horrible laws; I hope they do.

Sparkle,

We both live in Mass, and I'd venture to say we are both educated voters and consumers.

One thing that always amazes me in any argument, is that the word MYTH is used by all sides. Myth and Truth both contain elements of accuracy depending on which side of the fence you are on, and which side of a cause you are on.

Being we are both from Mass, I will use your "myth that undocumented persons are not given free housing or health care". Obamas Aunt. See article here....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100921/...s_obama_s_aunt

Fact or myth? She says we gave her housing and health care when she was supposed to be deported. Think the taxpayers footed the bill for this or do you think Kenya did?

All it takes is one story of truth, directly from one person, to make a "myth" not a "myth".

And, as an educated voter and consumer, do you check the laws of every state you do business with? Mass still has a few not well known laws on the books that could be seen a detrimental to one group or another. Does this mean you dont spend money in your home state?

My point is simply, this is a complex issue that people are most comfortable making a simple issue. And it is very easy to poke holes in "holier than thou attitudes" simply because, people being people, provide the very ammunition needed to do so.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by cody

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love my home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

The beauty of a state doesn't negate the ugliness of racism. It persists in every culture, so while you have your opinion, of how you love your state, I have facts that make the ugliness stand out like a sore thumb. The two are not exclusive to your state.

[QueenofSmirks]

I find it offensive that it is implied that anyone who lives here (in Arizona) or stands up for it is somehow a part of "this racist state".

The entire state is not racist; I don't even agree that the majority of people who live here are racist. I, do, however, believe that our political system is fucked up and people get elected for ALL KINDS of reasons, not necessarily because they are popular or right or hold a majority opinion. The same goes for laws written by these people. I lived in Colorado when Amendment 2 passed - the first anti-gay legislation to ever get on a ballot. I didn't hate or blame the entire state of Colorado. The wording on the ballot was confusing; the conservative right banded together and got everyone in a frenzy - so it passed.

I don't believe in boycotting the entire state of Arizona, I didn't believe in it before I moved here either. I do believe in fighting the problems, instead of "throwing out the baby with the bath water" so to speak.

[Kobi]

Sparkle,

Thank you for your response. I understand your positions better now.

One of the complexities with this situation which worries me is when I hear people calling to boycott a state (or anything else for that matter) and wishing harm come to any group (or government) because of their beliefs.

The reasons it bothers me are two fold. First, the vehemence with which these words are spoken are full of anger and "hate". Hate of hate is still hate.
If one wants a more rational approach to issues facing the world at large, using hate to combat hate just seems to breed more hatred. It doesnt make sense to me as an effective method.

Second, when I hear people talk about boycotts....sometimes this is effective, providing it is aimed at the correct places. If there arent enough dollars coming into Arizona because of a boycott, who do you think is going to be hurt most by this? Will the governor not have a place to call home or have an empty belly? NO. The very people you are trying to advocate for are the very people who get hurt when the government (and I use the term loosely here) doesnt have the money for the programs that people rely on.

I understand the outrage and I understand the issues around racial profiling. What I don't understand is how the methods being promoted to deal with it are any better than the initial issue.

In this respect, the government is saying there are "acceptable losses" in dealing with immigration issues. And the response is saying there are "acceptable losses" in boycotts. Both are throwing the groups in question under the wheels of the bus in their quest to be right.

It is a very complex issue for many countries. And no one, yet, seems to have a viable answer. But, I am pretty sure, crucifying the people you are trying to protect, from either standpoint, isnt it.