Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I was simply offering anothers opinion and point of view. I am not scared of Muslims. And thank you, as I see who I am dealing with as well.

I don't believe for one second that you were playing Devil's Advocate.

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I find it gross that you act like you are all about a place where everyone should come and worship, when it's obvious you have bought into the whole scary Muslim people are gathering and building terrorist training camps.

It's just gross.

I find it "gross" Lady Snow that you and some others have assumed from my postings on this thread as well as an article I shared not wrote myself is a
reflexion of what I am all about and what I believe. I may not be as popular as you are on this site but I have the same rights as a community member that you do. So assume away. I have not put words in your mouth or assumed or criticized you as you have me in this thread.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I find it "gross" Lady Snow that you and some others have assumed from my postings on this thread as well as an article I shared not wrote myself is a
reflexion of what I am all about and what I believe. I may not be as popular as you are on this site but I have the same rights as a community member that you do. So assume away. I have not put words in your mouth or assumed or criticized you as you have me in this thread.

FeminineAllure,

I think that when a member posts an article--especially on such a contentious issue--that others may presume that the poster may concur with some of their statements? Also, when the link is provided without any statement of whether you agree or disagree--people will presume you abide by that article or at least find things interesting that you wish to share with the forum.

I post links/articles that reflect my ideology and so it isn't surprising that some may believe your opinions are reflected in the article you chose to post.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I find it "gross" Lady Snow that you and some others have assumed from my postings on this thread as well as an article I shared not wrote myself is a
reflexion of what I am all about and what I believe. I may not be as popular as you are on this site but I have the same rights as a community member that you do. So assume away. I have not put words in your mouth or assumed or criticized you as you have me in this thread.

Are you saying that "my popularity" is keeping your from posting your thoughts and ideals about the Community Center?



I am going to ask again...


Do you really think that the Center that is being built in New York is a a place where people are being recruited to fight and kill???


Really?



You should view this cause it's a good laugh and well ridiculous as the article you posted

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...or-bunker-5200

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/groun...he-real-issue/

It's NOT a MOSQUE! Do you subscribe to this guys viewpoint? I'm asking because I am genuinely interested.

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

"But there are non-Sharia mosques where peaceful and spiritual Muslims worship God in their own way without promoting violence. A soon-to-be published study funded by Frank Gaffney’s Center for Security Policy, found that 20% of the mosques in the United States have no taint of Sharia and simply promote peaceful worship."

Again, the Islamic Community Center is not a Mosque. Statistics from a not yet published study by a group with questionable ethics isn't fact. It is Islamophobia.

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I was simply offering anothers opinion and point of view. I am not scared of Muslims. And thank you, as I see who I am dealing with as well.

What is your opinion? You seem to be feeling attacked, but you are not really being clear on what it is you are saying.

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I find it "gross" Lady Snow that you and some others have assumed from my postings on this thread as well as an article I shared not wrote myself is a
reflexion of what I am all about and what I believe. I may not be as popular as you are on this site but I have the same rights as a community member that you do. So assume away. I have not put words in your mouth or assumed or criticized you as you have me in this thread.

"And no, I do not think IMO that a Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero is appropriate. And I try not to be a hypocrite and live my life like a Christian."

The above in bold is a quote by you. I think that negates people assuming what your beliefs are. You've stated your opinion and then followed it up with a blog that concurs with you.

Of course you have a right to your opinion, nobody is saying that you do not. Everyone has the right to an opinion and when we state it on an open forum it's going to be discussed.

A lot of people have tried to discuss with you the FACTS around the Islamic Community Center (NOT A MOSQUE) and now you are saying it is about being popular.

I know you know that is not true.

If you are against the center then fine. You are against it. If others are for it then we are going to discuss.

There is no room to play victim.

[Corkey]

It isn't about popularity, and it isn't a contest, it is about facts and how those facts are misrepresented to the viewing audience.
Fact, Islam is not the enemy.
Fact, The Qur'an is a religious book, the same as the bible.
Fact, the american public has become engrossed in mob mentality.
Fact the community center is not a camp for terrorists.
Fact the religious right have lost their collective minds over their brothers building a center when they have several already closer to "ground zero" than the Muslims ever thought of putting in.
Fact this is all BS by the wingnut right to pit american against american to avoid the issues of the economy and jobs.

[SassyLeo]

This is a -gentle- reminder that this thread is NOT in the RED ZONE.

This is definitely a hard subject to discuss and we all have very personal feelings about it... So please keep your responses respectful.

Thanks
SassyLeo

[PapaC]

"To continue the efforts to battle Sharia Law and the attempts of radical Muslims to use it to destroy our values and the gains of feminism....."

riiiiiiiiiiight, THIS nut is now suddenly a mouthpiece for feminism?? I'm so sure about that.

thanks for the link to this article. I feel... even dirtier now.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by PapaC

"To continue the efforts to battle Sharia Law and the attempts of radical Muslims to use it to destroy our values and the gains of feminism....."

riiiiiiiiiiight, THIS nut is now suddenly a mouthpiece for feminism?? I'm so sure about that.

thanks for the link to this article. I feel... even dirtier now.

Seriously. It's pretty manipulative to try and couch this in "It's about the women!". I'm appalled.

[paposeco]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I find it interesting that you assume I am overtly triggered by certain words yet you seem triggered by your own words thinking it was I that was using them when they were quoted from your own posts.

"Do you feel you are living and acting as a Christian? Or a "fear and hate" monger yourself in this post?

"be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so." I look forward to your open mindedness when I post."

The above is your own thoughts I quoted in my last post.

And no, I do not think IMO that a Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero is appropriate. And I try not to be a hypocrite and live my life like a Christian.

Thanks for quoting me correctly.
Those comments, were not directed specifically at you. You seem to have taken it personally. And yes, to me, it does seem that you were a wee bit triggerd by my words, even though they were NOT directed at you. I was speaking in general terms, mostly, but in specific, about the nuts and wackos of this world that use any excuse in the name of God/religion to divide people. Then have the audacity to use 9/11 to further their twisted agenda. Frankly I do not know why you singled me out, as there are other opinions on this post that have more "offensive" language (according to you) than mine. Remember fa...it was not an attack on you, k?
(I thinks it's rather ironic, that generally speaking this post is about Intolerance...lol) ah..never mind. btw..it's not a Mosque, and so what if it was? never mind this one either. I will not respond to any future responses, that you direct to me. I have not the energy nor the time to try to make myself any more clearer. Peace, really. It was only my point of view, nothing more and nothing less. God bless.

[PapaC]

And you know, while we're at it, if you actually look at Ground Zero on a map (which I've had to do since I've never been to New York)... I'm lookin' there and ... oh RIGHT BESIDE WTC, is... St. Peter's Roman Catholic Church, St. Paul's Churchyard... even John Street United Methodist Church appears to be closer to Ground Zero.


Since this is a contest...It's 3 against 1. Christians win.

We could use curling rules? (closest rock to the centre wins?)

just a thought.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Muslim Americans Find Their Voice Amid The Shouts



http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129668035

[Julie]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Muslim Americans Find Their Voice Amid The Shouts


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129668035

Brilliant ~ This was a beautiful and well done video.

My Faith - My Voice was created by independent American Muslims, with the hopes that perhaps giving people the opportunity to visually see them, and hear them, that perhaps this might stop the madness. We need to be so aware right now, that anti-muslim causes are springing up faster than imagined, and not by the expected white supremacist groups, but by mainstream americans (lol that makes me laugh btw), who otherwise would not be associated with such outward hateful propaganda.

Even my mother, who was a civil-rights activist in the 60's and a hippie, is sending me the propaganda - scary shit when it's hitting our own homes.

Fear is DANGEROUS!

http://www.myfaithmyvoice.com

[Jude]

Re: SHARIA LAW. Suspect not too many here know what it is. In fact, real sharia law is closer to democracy and socialism than the democracy practiced in the USA and western European countries. Under sharia law, the entire society is protected (including non muslims). Everybody is "taxed" in a sense. Muslims pay a zakat (proportion of their incomes) that is significantly higher than what is required of non muslims living in an Islamic country (if they can afford it). They are paying for the protection of the Islamic military and basic community services, just as a resident alien living in the USA is paying taxes.
A woman's 'vote' was worth half that of a man (likewise a female witness to a crime) because it was presumed that the women were in the home giving birth and caring for children rather than dabbling in the affairs of the society.
Now, if you want to find something truly terrifying, read up on Talmudic Law....it's okay to have sexual intercourse with a gentile girl over 3 years and one day.....the life of a non Jew is worthless compared to that of a Jew. Talmudic and rabbinical law are the foundation of both modern Judaism and Christianity.
Rational people of any faith tent to take a critical look at the laws of their faith and practice what is feasible.
Again, I suggest that we recollect the Inquisition and the Crusades, and perhaps the Salem Witch burnings as a toss in, when we are claiming the Islam is a religion of atrocity.
Most Islamic conquest historically was by voluntary conversion. The Mongols mangled the Muslims and ultimately converted to Islam of their own accord. Christianity has spread by the sword.
Perahps a nice LGBT community center in the vicinity of Ground Zero would be appropriate at this point.

[Jude]

Feminine Alllure:
Could you please provide evidence for your statement that Islamic Centers (mosues or community centers or whatever you'd like to call them) don't honor sharia law? Sharia law is the basis of Islam. I'd really like to hear your sources.

That's akin to suggesting that Judaism generally tosses out all vestiges of Abrahamic law (talmudic law or rabbinical law) and only a few fanatical Jews attempt to abide by the law.

What's your source, please?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Jude

Feminine Alllure:
Could you please provide evidence for your statement that Islamic Centers (mosues or community centers or whatever you'd like to call them) don't honor sharia law? Sharia law is the basis of Islam. I'd really like to hear your sources.

That's akin to suggesting that Judaism generally tosses out all vestiges of Abrahamic law (talmudic law or rabbinical law) and only a few fanatical Jews attempt to abide by the law.

What's your source, please?

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/groun...he-real-issue/

paragraph four

[Toughy]

mmmmm us vs them

This entire conversation is about us vs them. Let's re-frame the conversation. ..sometimes I like irony.......

My sisters and brothers of an Abrahamic sect (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) want to build the Cordoba House, a community center. It will serve all the people of the neighborhood, within an Islamic tradition. It is a couple of blocks from the WTC where Wahhabist terrorists, who were Saudi nationals, flew planes in to buildings. The Cordoba House has nothing to do with 9/11. It is about building an inclusive community in that neighborhood.

Notice I did not say those Islamics want to build a mosque at ground zero. That would be divisive. Notice I talked about community and taking care of each other in that little neighborhood. That is inclusive and changes the dialogue.

[Rook]

Do you even know what Shari'ah is for you to Slander it as Radical and Terror-inducing?
I would Love...I mean this seriously, I would love Love LOVE to see a "non-sharia" Mosque/Islamic Community Center....

Why?

So I can sit on a bench and eat my popcorn while{both Shi'a and Sunni} Scholars tear the places rep. to shred VERBALLY.
You cannot have Islam w/o Sharia...

Again, why?

Easy...

Sharia is G-ds Law.

Mind you, there are, as in most Religions, various Degrees of Interpretation, and Schools of Thought on such Interpretations.
Some countries piously follow One interpretation, Some cultures even within those countries follow a different interpretation, but they ALL agree that in the end, the bottom Line, the Holy Quran is the the Absolute Sharia.
Followed Closely by the Sunnah {The practices of the Prophet himself & those before him}, & Fiqh {it compliments Both the Qu'ran and Sunnah, aiding further the Rulings on ritual, morals, social legislation} In Sunni there are 4 Madhabs with their own varying degrees of adherence to certain Rulings, within Shi'a there are 2...
That there are insane Fanatic Radicals and/or Fundamentalists that enjoy Twisting things to their sick benefit, ok..Those are the exception..Those are the ones the Rest of the Islamic world Shun..
That's where the saying "a few bad apples" fits very well...

I'll explain this easier before I get too Preachy....
To say a Mosque / Islamic Center /Community Center etc.. is w/o Sharia, is to say a Synagogue is without Talmud/Torah.
That a Catholic Church is w/o their 10 Commandments or their Apostles' Creed..

That there are Laws that seem borderline Archaic to Western Societies delicate nature?
Yup..
But, do u Really wanna go there?
I mean, with all the selling daughters into sexual slavery {Exodus 21:7-11}, literally Death to Adulterers {Deuteronomy 22:21, John 8:4,5., Ephesians 5:5 }

And please don't give me that "Old Testament doesn't apply" Bunk...
If it didn't, the Bible wouldn't have it.
Yes, Jesus did say "He who is w/o sin cast the first Stone" and they didn't...But..
If memory serves, a lil bit later, they did.
I have a lot of respect for it, I'm not attacking the Bible, I will say however, that the "allowed" Books in the bible have their own Faults, and there are Christian Fundamentalists/Radicals.
U are no better or Worse

btw, I loved "My Faith - My Voice"

[Jude]

"Do you even know what Shari'ah is for you to Slander it as Radical and Terror-inducing?
I would Love...I mean this seriously, I would love Love LOVE to see a "non-sharia" Mosque/Islamic Community Center...."

Rook got it down 100%.

[Jude]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/groun...he-real-issue/

paragraph four

Is that meant to be a joke? That's a source? Do you know what a hate site is? Why don't you inquire of your buddies over there how they feel about homosexuals and trans people looooooooooooooool.

Suggestion: Because something is printed on the web...ummmmm.... that don't make it so.

Take care. I"m outta this thread. This has become too silly.