Olivia Cruisers? Carribean Sun Cruise October 30th

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 02:47 PM

I do understand that having a butch femme group event on a lesbian cruise is totally inappropriate because not all butch femme community members are lesbians.

For people going on vacations on an individual basis with their spouses, significant others or friends that are not lesbians they would choose a different type of vacation. I totally get that. Or you may be a lesbian who just doesn't want to be stuck on a ship with thousands of other lesbians. Or you don't like cruises for environmental or other reasons. I totally get that.

If lesbian transwomen are discriminated against I think that is wrong. They are lesbians and women too and of course should be included. I do support the need and desire for having women's only space. I do not support any organization that excludes transwomen from their definition of women's space.

I also think it's wrong for anyone to be treated rudely at the docks or anywhere else.

What I don't understand is people seem to be upset that Olivia Cruises is geared towards lesbians and that it isn't inclusive? I don't think it was set up so they could say x, y and z can't go. It was set up for lesbians to have vacations geared for them. There's nothing on their website talking about who can't go. It talks about being a lesbian owned travel business that sets up vacations for lesbians.

There are lots of vacation businesses and packages that are geared towards gay men. I have never been offended that they aren't geared for me. I am not interested in buying a vacation package to go on a cruise or other type of vacation geared towards gay men. I hope they have a great time.

Are people saying its wrong that all queers are not included? Why can't a travel business set up vacations aimed for lesbians? Or for gay men? Is there a different between Olivia Cruises and some travel business geared towards gay men? I genuinely am puzzled. If people wanted to have a butch femme vacation business I think that would be great and a queer vacation business for every single type of queer person would be great too. However, I don't think every single travel or other business needs to be geared towards every single type of queer person.

My other question is do people who are not lesbians really want to go on vacations geared towards lesbians?

I totally understand everyone can make their choices about where and who they want to vacation with and how they spend their money. I am not understanding why setting up vacations where lesbians are the target audience is wrong.

SuperFemme · 09-07-2010, 02:50 PM

Newsflash: There are many, many LESBIANS who are partnered with transfolk.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 02:52 PM

Yes I am very well aware of that. I said that in my post.

Corkey · 09-07-2010, 02:57 PM

As a business I wouldn't be making judgements on who could or could not attend. As a business set up for lesbians who sometimes partner with FTM's it would be incumbent upon my business to be as accommodating as possible so that I have return business. If I just say you are on your own take your money and deny you passage on my business then my ethics do indeed need to be examined.

Ebon · 09-07-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes I am very well aware of that. I said that in my post.

Well the point is that the Olivia lesboat was discriminating against transfolks, not that it was wrong to have gay/lesbian only vacations.

chefhmboyrd · 09-07-2010, 03:02 PM

i personally have no interest in a lesbian cruise, whether or not i was "allowed" to go on the boat, there would undoubtably be haters present.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefhmboyrd

i personally have no interest in a lesbian cruise, whether or not i was "allowed" to go on the boat, there would undoubtably be haters present.

I think there are haters present in any group.

UofMfan · 09-07-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

Well the point is that the Olivia lesboat was discriminating against transfolks, not that it was wrong to have gay/lesbian only vacations.

MODERATING:

OrganicButch, I am going to ask you to refrain from using terms that are offensive, derisive and inflammatory when posting on this site. There are other ways of getting your point across.

Thank you.

The_Lady_Snow · 09-07-2010, 03:04 PM

Damn bully, I don't think this is really about Olivia not wanting men on their cruise, I get that.

I happen to be with someone who is a guy, so does that mean I get my women's space privileges taken away?

Another thing, let's be honest the reason so many people came on here with their concerns and posts about Olivia cause in another place and time SOMEONE was trying to hoodwink all of us by saying one thing, some people called and got a different story, then SOMEONE came in wagged their finger and stomped their feet and called people names.

THEN what pissed people off more was more evidence was given, and then ALL the Queens Horses and ALL the Queens Gals came in and not only wagged their finger and used academic language to basically say.

Hey mother fucker you don't pay to post here so shut the fuck up.

That's why we all have a sensitive spot when it comes to Olivia and it spilled over here..

I know on my end of the world none of the people in my pack want to participate with Olivia due to well it's women's space and well we all tend to stick together and will not go where trans follk are not welcome.

That's how we roll though.

No one is wanting to take over Olivia's women's space what we have here is a lot of people saying how they feel, some of us with some hurt feelings over it.

Unfortunately it happened in a thread MS started asking us if we are all going.

True story

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Damn bully, I don't think this is really about Olivia not wanting men on their cruise, I get that.

I happen to be with someone who is a guy, so does that mean I get my women's space privileges taken away?

Another thing, let's be honest the reason so many people came on here with their concerns and posts about Olivia cause in another place and time SOMEONE was trying to hoodwink all of us by saying one thing, some people called and got a different story, then SOMEONE came in wagged their finger and stomped their feet and called people names.

THEN what pissed people off more was more evidence was given, and then ALL the Queens Horses and ALL the Queens Gals came in and not only wagged their finger and used academic language to basically say.

Hey mother fucker you don't pay to post here so shut the fuck up.

That's why we all have a sensitive spot when it comes to Olivia and it spilled over here..

I know on my end of the world none of the people in my pack want to participate with Olivia due to well it's women's space and well we all tend to stick together and will not go where trans follk are not welcome.

That's how we roll though.

No one is wanting to take over Olivia's women's space what we have here is a lot of people saying how they feel, some of us with some hurt feelings over it.

Unfortunately it happened in a thread MS started asking us if we are all going.

True story

Thanks Snow. I have been reading this thread for days and still am trying to understand. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am supportive of women's space and maybe that is where the difference in opinion lies. As I said earlier I do absolutely think transwomen should be included and if they are not that is transphobic and wrong.

Edit: I am not familiar with the prior incident.

The_Lady_Snow · 09-07-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Thanks Snow. I have been reading this thread for days and still am trying to understand. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am supportive of women's space and maybe that is where the difference in opinion lies. As I said earlier I do absolutely think transwomen should be included and if they are not that is transphobic and wrong.

I don't get how you don't understand...

The Original Gender Spectrum tried to hood wink its community with a get together where it is WOMENS SPACE, this is where all the sensitivity is from.

Unfortunately we all took a shit, on MS thread because we all brought our hurt feelings and frustrations and voiced them out in type.

I am gonna be honest here so bare with me.

Once again because some people, who btw are women who do not agree with the bullshit and lies posted.

Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness.

It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps.

It's a tiring pattern.

No one wants Olivia to open up their gates to men. *I* don't think any woman's space should have to

But don't be a liar and say you got a buddy in the system that is gonna make it all better cause well it's not true.

This is what this spill over is from.

True story

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't get how you don't understand...

The Original Gender Spectrum tried to hood wink its community with a get together where it is WOMENS SPACE, this is where all the sensitivity is from.

Unfortunately we all took a shit, on MS thread because we all brought our hurt feelings and frustrations and voiced them out in type.

I am gonna be honest here so bare with me.

Once again because some people, who btw are women who do not agree with the bullshit and lies posted.

Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness.

It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps.

It's a tiring pattern.

No one wants Olivia to open up their gates to men. *I* don't think any woman's space should have to

But don't be a liar and say you got a buddy in the system that is gonna make it all better cause well it's not true.

This is what this spill over is from.

True story

Don't be a liar? I'm not lying about anything.

As to the other stuff if you are referring to the cruise set up by another website owner I think the whole thing is bullshit, but I haven't followed the story. I am still on the email list just because it's quite amazing to see just how many ways one person can attempt to make money off of her so-called "community."

Gayla · 09-07-2010, 03:09 PM

What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money.

Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun.

Olivia has the "right" to do whatever they want in the way they structure their business and who they choose to cater to in the same way that I get to decide who I support monetarily. In the past, I did support Olivia and give them quite a bit of my money. That was back when they were a women's music company and not a cruise line.

There seems to be some type of underlying insinuation that we should all support Olivia because they are a woman-owned / lesbian-owned business and that we are somehow "bad lesbians" or anti-lesbian or lesbiphobic if we don't.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gayla

What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money.

Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun.

Olivia has the "right" to do whatever they want in the way they structure their business and who they choose to cater to in the same way that I get to decide who I support monetarily. In the past, I did support Olivia and give them quite a bit of my money. That was back when they were a women's music company and not a cruise line.

There seems to be some type of underlying insinuation that we should all support Olivia because they are a woman-owned / lesbian-owned business and that we are somehow "bad lesbians" or anti-lesbian or lesbiphobic if we don't.

I personally am not insinuating anything. I have a genuine question.

naturlover_52 · 09-07-2010, 04:17 PM

[QUOTE=gayla;187445]What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money.
Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun.

I would have to Agree w/ Gayla...About NOT wanting to be on a boat w/ 3,000 lesbians....BUT for me I just am NOT a cruise type person....lesbian OR Straight. I lived in Alaska for 7 years in Fairbanks and saw the people being carted around like Cattle....I would have to agree w/ the rest of those that have posted about Olivia being Unaccommodating to ALL of the Community.

I am NOT a follower SOOO I don't go by what MY friends are doing or as support.....I do it because of the fact that like ANOTHER member stated....I don't support ANY kind of ISM....BE it be Sexuality based, gender based or race based.

and as to what Snow said....Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness.
It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps.

ONLY one person wanted this thread moved because of the fact that is was ANTIlesbian...and ADMIN spoke to her.

I have been following this post ALL the way along...I agree that Olivia is a business and HAS their right to do business how they want....I would rather GO to Alaska Via Ferry w/ friends gay, straight, trans...JUST because there is MORE freedom to DO what U want....travel where U want....and NOT have to follow the rules of a COMPANY. If I was gonna drop money like this ON a vacation it would be to go to like Hawaii to the BIG island...and maybe go to a GENERAL Gay....area....by gay....I mean the Community as a whole.

Thanks

09-07-2010, 02:47 PM	#1
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	I do understand that having a butch femme group event on a lesbian cruise is totally inappropriate because not all butch femme community members are lesbians. For people going on vacations on an individual basis with their spouses, significant others or friends that are not lesbians they would choose a different type of vacation. I totally get that. Or you may be a lesbian who just doesn't want to be stuck on a ship with thousands of other lesbians. Or you don't like cruises for environmental or other reasons. I totally get that. If lesbian transwomen are discriminated against I think that is wrong. They are lesbians and women too and of course should be included. I do support the need and desire for having women's only space. I do not support any organization that excludes transwomen from their definition of women's space. I also think it's wrong for anyone to be treated rudely at the docks or anywhere else. What I don't understand is people seem to be upset that Olivia Cruises is geared towards lesbians and that it isn't inclusive? I don't think it was set up so they could say x, y and z can't go. It was set up for lesbians to have vacations geared for them. There's nothing on their website talking about who can't go. It talks about being a lesbian owned travel business that sets up vacations for lesbians. There are lots of vacation businesses and packages that are geared towards gay men. I have never been offended that they aren't geared for me. I am not interested in buying a vacation package to go on a cruise or other type of vacation geared towards gay men. I hope they have a great time. Are people saying its wrong that all queers are not included? Why can't a travel business set up vacations aimed for lesbians? Or for gay men? Is there a different between Olivia Cruises and some travel business geared towards gay men? I genuinely am puzzled. If people wanted to have a butch femme vacation business I think that would be great and a queer vacation business for every single type of queer person would be great too. However, I don't think every single travel or other business needs to be geared towards every single type of queer person. My other question is do people who are not lesbians really want to go on vacations geared towards lesbians? I totally understand everyone can make their choices about where and who they want to vacation with and how they spend their money. I am not understanding why setting up vacations where lesbians are the target audience is wrong. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

09-07-2010, 02:52 PM	#3
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Yes I am very well aware of that. I said that in my post. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

09-07-2010, 02:57 PM	#4
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	As a business I wouldn't be making judgements on who could or could not attend. As a business set up for lesbians who sometimes partner with FTM's it would be incumbent upon my business to be as accommodating as possible so that I have return business. If I just say you are on your own take your money and deny you passage on my business then my ethics do indeed need to be examined. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-07-2010, 03:02 PM	#6
chefhmboyrd Senior Member How Do You Identify?: man Preferred Pronoun?: beef Relationship Status: Uncle Daddy Snap Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: nashvegas Posts: 1,607 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,411 Thanked 2,846 Times in 898 Posts Rep Power: 14271905	i personally have no interest in a lesbian cruise, whether or not i was "allowed" to go on the boat, there would undoubtably be haters present. __________________ what's a cowboy got to do to get a drink around here? Last edited by chefhmboyrd; 09-07-2010 at 03:03 PM. Reason: big paws

09-07-2010, 03:04 PM	#9
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,077 Times in 15,670 Posts Rep Power: 21474875	Damn bully, I don't think this is really about Olivia not wanting men on their cruise, I get that. I happen to be with someone who is a guy, so does that mean I get my women's space privileges taken away? Another thing, let's be honest the reason so many people came on here with their concerns and posts about Olivia cause in another place and time SOMEONE was trying to hoodwink all of us by saying one thing, some people called and got a different story, then SOMEONE came in wagged their finger and stomped their feet and called people names. THEN what pissed people off more was more evidence was given, and then ALL the Queens Horses and ALL the Queens Gals came in and not only wagged their finger and used academic language to basically say. Hey mother fucker you don't pay to post here so shut the fuck up. That's why we all have a sensitive spot when it comes to Olivia and it spilled over here.. I know on my end of the world none of the people in my pack want to participate with Olivia due to well it's women's space and well we all tend to stick together and will not go where trans follk are not welcome. That's how we roll though. No one is wanting to take over Olivia's women's space what we have here is a lot of people saying how they feel, some of us with some hurt feelings over it. Unfortunately it happened in a thread MS started asking us if we are all going. True story __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

09-07-2010, 02:50 PM	#2
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,108 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	Newsflash: There are many, many LESBIANS who are partnered with transfolk.

09-07-2010, 03:09 PM	#13
Gayla Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Kinky Butch Top Preferred Pronoun?: I'm not picky Relationship Status: She makes me dance like a fool and forget how to breathe. Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SF CA Posts: 3,229 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 877 Thanked 7,077 Times in 1,966 Posts Rep Power: 0	What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money. Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun. Olivia has the "right" to do whatever they want in the way they structure their business and who they choose to cater to in the same way that I get to decide who I support monetarily. In the past, I did support Olivia and give them quite a bit of my money. That was back when they were a women's music company and not a cruise line. There seems to be some type of underlying insinuation that we should all support Olivia because they are a woman-owned / lesbian-owned business and that we are somehow "bad lesbians" or anti-lesbian or lesbiphobic if we don't.

09-07-2010, 04:17 PM	#15
naturlover_52 Member How Do You Identify?: soft butch/bi Preferred Pronoun?: she and her are just fine....Sweetcheeks hey you Relationship Status: seeing someone long distance but soon will be both in Ca love her very much Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: So Calif East San Gabrielle Valley aka the land of shake and bake Posts: 108 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 85 Thanked 89 Times in 44 Posts Rep Power: 3426	[QUOTE=gayla;187445]What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money. Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun. I would have to Agree w/ Gayla...About NOT wanting to be on a boat w/ 3,000 lesbians....BUT for me I just am NOT a cruise type person....lesbian OR Straight. I lived in Alaska for 7 years in Fairbanks and saw the people being carted around like Cattle....I would have to agree w/ the rest of those that have posted about Olivia being Unaccommodating to ALL of the Community. I am NOT a follower SOOO I don't go by what MY friends are doing or as support.....I do it because of the fact that like ANOTHER member stated....I don't support ANY kind of ISM....BE it be Sexuality based, gender based or race based. and as to what Snow said....Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness. It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps. ONLY one person wanted this thread moved because of the fact that is was ANTIlesbian...and ADMIN spoke to her. I have been following this post ALL the way along...I agree that Olivia is a business and HAS their right to do business how they want....I would rather GO to Alaska Via Ferry w/ friends gay, straight, trans...JUST because there is MORE freedom to DO what U want....travel where U want....and NOT have to follow the rules of a COMPANY. If I was gonna drop money like this ON a vacation it would be to go to like Hawaii to the BIG island...and maybe go to a GENERAL Gay....area....by gay....I mean the Community as a whole. Thanks