Freethinkers/Atheists/Naturalists Unite

MsDemeanor · 12-09-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Oy Vey everybody scatter!!!

Where's a good snort coffee out my nose smilie when you need one?

Linus · 12-09-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Where's a good snort coffee out my nose smilie when you need one?

<-- not quite the same but close

MsDemeanor · 12-09-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus

<-- not quite the same but close

That'll do!!!

Linus, you rock!!!

NJFemmie · 12-09-2009, 12:34 PM

I am not an atheist, but I consider myself to be a free thinking and open minded recovering Catholic. I have and still incorporate Buddhist principals into my daily life, but there is a large part of me that would like to believe that something much bigger exists out there. I don't necessarily believe in God as the bible or religious practices would state (hence why I am no longer a practicing minister) - but I like to think there is at least a collective energy that drives and pushes us forward.

In any case, I am always interested in learning new theories and beliefs - and think this is a great thread topic and look forward to some useful and educational information on here

MsDemeanor · 12-10-2009, 03:40 PM

I wonder what they mean by "Almighty God". Christian God, Muslim God, Tribal God? Would they consider Buddha to be a God? How about Goddesses? Is "God" gender-specific? The Parking Goddess - the only deity that exists as far as I am concerned - was very kind to me yesterday. Twice. And I have a witness to prove it. Is she "almighty" enough to pass their test? If they ever had to find a perfect parking space in a busy city on a regular basis, would they possibly reconsider their position on the Parking Goddess? Could I snark on all day about the high level of bullshit that is this unconstitutional law? You betcha.

linkyloo

MsDemeanor · 12-10-2009, 08:43 PM

Here's my view of religion and gods and faith and spirituality and that stuff.

It's all phooey.

Once upon a time, ancient man created gods to explain the things in nature that he couldn't understand. Eclipses, droughts, good and bad growing seasons, earthquakes, whatever. Well, now we've moved on to a point where humans can figure this stuff out. We haven't figured it all out yet, but we'll eventually get around to it. We don't need to pray to the earthquake god any more.

When I see news reports of people killing each other because they are different religions, I think that it's tragic. It's so far beyond stupid that it can't see stupid in the rear view mirror. Fight over land or minerals or some such tangeble thing, but don't go around killing each other because you read from a different scripture or say your prayers a different way. How damn stupid.

Organized religion, especially when I look at what it's done and is doing in this country, is evil. You can't call yourself an organization of compassion when you let millions suffer because you place more importance on cast-off embryos that could be used for stem cell research than you place on people who are here and alive and in pain and dieing. You can't call yourself an organization of compassion when you threaten to quit helping the poor in an area because that area wants to allow queers to marry. You can't call yourself an organization of compassion and then relentlessly harass my grandmother because she doesn't give you ten percent of her widows pension until you drive her and her entire family out of the church for good. The list goes on, but you get my drift. So much of it is not about faith or compassion or caring or any of the multitude of things it claims; it's about power over people, it's about politics and control, it's about money. Now, I know less that didly about a lot of religions, maybe there are a bunch that don't do evil stuff, but they aren't in the news so I'm not aware of what they are up to. I'm speaking about the ones that make headlines.

Forcing one religion on everybody else is wrong wrong wrong and wrong. Okay, your particular faith doesn't believe in abortion and doesn't want government money to provide them with insurance policies. Well guess what, I'm not a part of your religion and your beliefs are not my beliefs and I paid my tax dollars in to that system just the same as everyone else, so if I want an abortion then STFU and let me use my damn insurance to pay for the procedure. Charity is fine and dandy, we should all do more of it, but making people listen to you preach to them while you feed them isn't charity, it's recruiting. If the point is really to help people, then just STFU and help. If someone's actually interested in your religion, they can always ask you about it.

The infiltration of conservative and dominionist individuals in to our military and government scares the shit out of me. Solders are enlisting to go fight in the middle east because they think it's something biblical, the military chaplincy (is that the right word?) is being taken over by the religious right and far right; these folks are going to move up the chain of command and some day they'll be in charge. I'm not really looking forward to a future where our military is run by the religious rabid right, and it's headed that way. Put another republican in the White House (I'm assuming he/she would be a religious wing nut because those are the only kinds of republicans who seem to have any power these days), and we could all face martial law at the hands of nut jobs who think things like that the earth is 6,000 years old. We don't have to worry about progressive socialists taking over this country, the real issue is that we quite likely to be taken over by people who want to move us all back a century or five.

I don't understand politicians like those in C Street and the Palins and other extremist wing nuts and how they can be supported and stay in office and stay in power. They don't have a conscience, they think they are better than everyone else, the rules don't apply and all that matters is them and their power and what they think that their interpretation of their god wants them to do. Even if its imprisioning and murdering people in Uganda simply for being gay. One only has to read a couple of chapters in to The Family to understand why all of these republicans who have been caught up in scandle lately don't think they've done anything wrong and don't think they should have to step down. They really and honestly believe that they are better and it's really all okay.

I don't understand people who profess compassion and such and then argue in favor of things like murder. I often find myself in conversations about controversial topics where I'm the only atheist in the conversation and I'm also the most compassionate voice. The hypocrisy of posting in one thread that everyone should love and be compassionate to everyone and then posting in another thread that so-and-so should be executed makes my head explode. You can't have it both ways.

I don't get faith or spirituality. I'd be lousy in a 12-step program because I totally don't understand the "higher power" thing (don't bother trying, others have and you won't get any father than they did, plus your attempts will just irritate me). I don't understand needing to seek some purpose. I wake up every day with plenty of purpose, my calendar is full of purpose. My bills need paid, my job needs done, my dog needs a walk, I have people and critters to love and people and critters that love me, and all of that fills my needs and my heart and my life just fine. And when I die, I'll be dead and I'll decay. There aren't virgins in heaven if you murder others in the name of some god, there's no pearly gates where you get a free pass from some god that it's okay that you fucked over people Mon-Sat because you went to church every Sunday and tithed your little ten percent. There's no great afterlife and nothing to look forward to. You die, you're dead, you rot, just like every other living thing on this planet.

I do like the Christmas lights and decorations and prezzies and TV specials and some of the songs are pretty swell and Little Drummer Boy makes cry when it's done right (I don't know why), so that parts all cool and stuff, but it really bugs me that stores close on Easter.

I also go along with a lot of the stuff that Aj said in post #5, especially about responsibility and motivation for how I treat others.

Andrew, Jr. · 12-10-2009, 09:42 PM

MsDemeanor,

I agree with some of your thinking. I think it is wrong to force your religious beliefs on anyone. I think that has to come from your own journey. Everyone has to take that on themself. I meditate, and pray. I try to get to that place where I have that inner joy/peace.

I believe in helping others. I volunteer to feed the poor, donate clothes, tents, and blankets to the homeless, and when possible donate money to NIH for cancer research. I also donate money to CaringBridge in honor of my sister, JoAnn. I used to volunteer at a hospice center, but had to stop that after my sister died. It was too emotional for me. And it still is. It was pure devistation. I don't think my life will ever be the same again.

As for your thinking about stem-cells...JoAnn had stem cell treatments. It failed. I wish more was done with stem-cells. It is our only chance of helping those who have skin cancer, and those who are burned with 3rd and 4th degree burns over their bodies. I read somewhere on the NIH website that Rockefeller Univ. in NYC and Children's Hospital in Boston got the ok to donate stem cells they have to NIH - by a federal grant of some sort. It is my hope and prayer that someone will be saved by this and not have to endure the devistation that I have had to endure.

Namaste,
Andrew

MsDemeanor · 12-10-2009, 10:08 PM

Basic questions that I can't get past.

1) If there were really a god, wouldn't there be A God, one god, a singular god?

2) If there were really a god and this god provided a text, wouldn't there be A Text, one single bible or whatever you want to call it?

Instead, there's a bunch of different gods and bunch of different texts and stuff for each religion that prays to each of these gods, and sometimes a single religion will even have a bunch of different texts within that one religion and some people will pick this one and some will pick that one and stuff.

and

3) If there were really a god, and kings and other folks went around claiming that the voices in their heads were god telling them to rewrite the texts, wouldn't that god be kinda pissed?

Nowadays, they don't even bother claiming to hear voices (which, you know, if your not a king or some church higher-up and you claim to hear voices telling you to do things, you tend to get diagnosed with some mental condition). I read recently about some guys that have decided that their bible is too liberal. They've pretty much said that they are re-writing because it doesn't fit with their thinking. Word of God? I think not.

Dominique · 12-11-2009, 07:15 AM

[QUOTE=Andrew, Jr.;19858
As for your thinking about stem-cells...JoAnn had stem cell treatments. It failed. I wish more was done with stem-cells. It is our only chance of helping those who have skin cancer, and those who are burned with 3rd and 4th degree burns over their bodies. I read somewhere on the NIH website that Rockefeller Univ. in NYC and Children's Hospital in Boston got the ok to donate stem cells they have to NIH - by a federal grant of some sort. It is my hope and prayer that someone will be saved by this and not have to endure the devistation that I have had to endure.

Namaste,
Andrew[/QUOTE]

It was March 9, 2009 that President Obama issued executive order 13505 removing barriers to respponsible RESEARCH involving human stem cells.

12-09-2009, 12:34 PM	#4
NJFemmie Senior Member How Do You Identify?: The original lime-twisted femme Preferred Pronoun?: I answer to most things, especially lesbian. Relationship Status: Still loving my Mare ;) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 4,683 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,343 Thanked 11,420 Times in 2,976 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	I am not an atheist, but I consider myself to be a free thinking and open minded recovering Catholic. I have and still incorporate Buddhist principals into my daily life, but there is a large part of me that would like to believe that something much bigger exists out there. I don't necessarily believe in God as the bible or religious practices would state (hence why I am no longer a practicing minister) - but I like to think there is at least a collective energy that drives and pushes us forward. In any case, I am always interested in learning new theories and beliefs - and think this is a great thread topic and look forward to some useful and educational information on here __________________

12-10-2009, 03:40 PM	#5
MsDemeanor Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme Relationship Status: Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 703 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 165 Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts Rep Power: 2698180	I wonder what they mean by "Almighty God". Christian God, Muslim God, Tribal God? Would they consider Buddha to be a God? How about Goddesses? Is "God" gender-specific? The Parking Goddess - the only deity that exists as far as I am concerned - was very kind to me yesterday. Twice. And I have a witness to prove it. Is she "almighty" enough to pass their test? If they ever had to find a perfect parking space in a busy city on a regular basis, would they possibly reconsider their position on the Parking Goddess? Could I snark on all day about the high level of bullshit that is this unconstitutional law? You betcha. linkyloo

12-10-2009, 08:43 PM	#6
MsDemeanor Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme Relationship Status: Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 703 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 165 Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts Rep Power: 2698180	Here's my view of religion and gods and faith and spirituality and that stuff. It's all phooey. Once upon a time, ancient man created gods to explain the things in nature that he couldn't understand. Eclipses, droughts, good and bad growing seasons, earthquakes, whatever. Well, now we've moved on to a point where humans can figure this stuff out. We haven't figured it all out yet, but we'll eventually get around to it. We don't need to pray to the earthquake god any more. When I see news reports of people killing each other because they are different religions, I think that it's tragic. It's so far beyond stupid that it can't see stupid in the rear view mirror. Fight over land or minerals or some such tangeble thing, but don't go around killing each other because you read from a different scripture or say your prayers a different way. How damn stupid. Organized religion, especially when I look at what it's done and is doing in this country, is evil. You can't call yourself an organization of compassion when you let millions suffer because you place more importance on cast-off embryos that could be used for stem cell research than you place on people who are here and alive and in pain and dieing. You can't call yourself an organization of compassion when you threaten to quit helping the poor in an area because that area wants to allow queers to marry. You can't call yourself an organization of compassion and then relentlessly harass my grandmother because she doesn't give you ten percent of her widows pension until you drive her and her entire family out of the church for good. The list goes on, but you get my drift. So much of it is not about faith or compassion or caring or any of the multitude of things it claims; it's about power over people, it's about politics and control, it's about money. Now, I know less that didly about a lot of religions, maybe there are a bunch that don't do evil stuff, but they aren't in the news so I'm not aware of what they are up to. I'm speaking about the ones that make headlines. Forcing one religion on everybody else is wrong wrong wrong and wrong. Okay, your particular faith doesn't believe in abortion and doesn't want government money to provide them with insurance policies. Well guess what, I'm not a part of your religion and your beliefs are not my beliefs and I paid my tax dollars in to that system just the same as everyone else, so if I want an abortion then STFU and let me use my damn insurance to pay for the procedure. Charity is fine and dandy, we should all do more of it, but making people listen to you preach to them while you feed them isn't charity, it's recruiting. If the point is really to help people, then just STFU and help. If someone's actually interested in your religion, they can always ask you about it. The infiltration of conservative and dominionist individuals in to our military and government scares the shit out of me. Solders are enlisting to go fight in the middle east because they think it's something biblical, the military chaplincy (is that the right word?) is being taken over by the religious right and far right; these folks are going to move up the chain of command and some day they'll be in charge. I'm not really looking forward to a future where our military is run by the religious rabid right, and it's headed that way. Put another republican in the White House (I'm assuming he/she would be a religious wing nut because those are the only kinds of republicans who seem to have any power these days), and we could all face martial law at the hands of nut jobs who think things like that the earth is 6,000 years old. We don't have to worry about progressive socialists taking over this country, the real issue is that we quite likely to be taken over by people who want to move us all back a century or five. I don't understand politicians like those in C Street and the Palins and other extremist wing nuts and how they can be supported and stay in office and stay in power. They don't have a conscience, they think they are better than everyone else, the rules don't apply and all that matters is them and their power and what they think that their interpretation of their god wants them to do. Even if its imprisioning and murdering people in Uganda simply for being gay. One only has to read a couple of chapters in to The Family to understand why all of these republicans who have been caught up in scandle lately don't think they've done anything wrong and don't think they should have to step down. They really and honestly believe that they are better and it's really all okay. I don't understand people who profess compassion and such and then argue in favor of things like murder. I often find myself in conversations about controversial topics where I'm the only atheist in the conversation and I'm also the most compassionate voice. The hypocrisy of posting in one thread that everyone should love and be compassionate to everyone and then posting in another thread that so-and-so should be executed makes my head explode. You can't have it both ways. I don't get faith or spirituality. I'd be lousy in a 12-step program because I totally don't understand the "higher power" thing (don't bother trying, others have and you won't get any father than they did, plus your attempts will just irritate me). I don't understand needing to seek some purpose. I wake up every day with plenty of purpose, my calendar is full of purpose. My bills need paid, my job needs done, my dog needs a walk, I have people and critters to love and people and critters that love me, and all of that fills my needs and my heart and my life just fine. And when I die, I'll be dead and I'll decay. There aren't virgins in heaven if you murder others in the name of some god, there's no pearly gates where you get a free pass from some god that it's okay that you fucked over people Mon-Sat because you went to church every Sunday and tithed your little ten percent. There's no great afterlife and nothing to look forward to. You die, you're dead, you rot, just like every other living thing on this planet. I do like the Christmas lights and decorations and prezzies and TV specials and some of the songs are pretty swell and Little Drummer Boy makes cry when it's done right (I don't know why), so that parts all cool and stuff, but it really bugs me that stores close on Easter. I also go along with a lot of the stuff that Aj said in post #5, especially about responsibility and motivation for how I treat others.

12-10-2009, 09:42 PM	#7
Andrew, Jr. Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Over the Rainbow in a House Posts: 5,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,004 Thanked 5,249 Times in 2,216 Posts Rep Power: 0	MsDemeanor, I agree with some of your thinking. I think it is wrong to force your religious beliefs on anyone. I think that has to come from your own journey. Everyone has to take that on themself. I meditate, and pray. I try to get to that place where I have that inner joy/peace. I believe in helping others. I volunteer to feed the poor, donate clothes, tents, and blankets to the homeless, and when possible donate money to NIH for cancer research. I also donate money to CaringBridge in honor of my sister, JoAnn. I used to volunteer at a hospice center, but had to stop that after my sister died. It was too emotional for me. And it still is. It was pure devistation. I don't think my life will ever be the same again. As for your thinking about stem-cells...JoAnn had stem cell treatments. It failed. I wish more was done with stem-cells. It is our only chance of helping those who have skin cancer, and those who are burned with 3rd and 4th degree burns over their bodies. I read somewhere on the NIH website that Rockefeller Univ. in NYC and Children's Hospital in Boston got the ok to donate stem cells they have to NIH - by a federal grant of some sort. It is my hope and prayer that someone will be saved by this and not have to endure the devistation that I have had to endure. Namaste, Andrew

12-10-2009, 10:08 PM	#8
MsDemeanor Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme Relationship Status: Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 703 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 165 Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts Rep Power: 2698180	Basic questions that I can't get past. 1) If there were really a god, wouldn't there be A God, one god, a singular god? 2) If there were really a god and this god provided a text, wouldn't there be A Text, one single bible or whatever you want to call it? Instead, there's a bunch of different gods and bunch of different texts and stuff for each religion that prays to each of these gods, and sometimes a single religion will even have a bunch of different texts within that one religion and some people will pick this one and some will pick that one and stuff. and 3) If there were really a god, and kings and other folks went around claiming that the voices in their heads were god telling them to rewrite the texts, wouldn't that god be kinda pissed? Nowadays, they don't even bother claiming to hear voices (which, you know, if your not a king or some church higher-up and you claim to hear voices telling you to do things, you tend to get diagnosed with some mental condition). I read recently about some guys that have decided that their bible is too liberal. They've pretty much said that they are re-writing because it doesn't fit with their thinking. Word of God? I think not.

12-11-2009, 07:15 AM	#9
Dominique Member How Do You Identify?: Female/Lesbian/half the athlete I used to be Preferred Pronoun?: she/her Relationship Status: Dates Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: So proud to be a Pittsburgher Posts: 1,484 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,645 Thanked 3,730 Times in 1,166 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	[QUOTE=Andrew, Jr.;19858 As for your thinking about stem-cells...JoAnn had stem cell treatments. It failed. I wish more was done with stem-cells. It is our only chance of helping those who have skin cancer, and those who are burned with 3rd and 4th degree burns over their bodies. I read somewhere on the NIH website that Rockefeller Univ. in NYC and Children's Hospital in Boston got the ok to donate stem cells they have to NIH - by a federal grant of some sort. It is my hope and prayer that someone will be saved by this and not have to endure the devistation that I have had to endure. Namaste, Andrew[/QUOTE] It was March 9, 2009 that President Obama issued executive order 13505 removing barriers to respponsible RESEARCH involving human stem cells.