Islam & the Muslim faith- banishing myths

[Glenn]

With all of the negative kinds of actions and feelings in the US about Islamic ideology and Muslims, I believe too much myth is out there. So, anyone that can speak to this, please do! There are a lot of members here that have a wealth of information about so many things.[/QUOTE]

A list of all the Christian countries conquered by Moslems:

A partial list of all the Moslem countries conquered by Christians: Morocco, Algeria, Tunnisia, Libya, Egypt, Dudan, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Iran Pakistan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait,Yemen, Oman, Abu Dhabi, Dubai...
This does not include minor Christian conquests such as North, South, and Central, America, India, China, Southeast Asia, and Africa.

[Jude]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

With all of the negative kinds of actions and feelings in the US about Islamic ideology and Muslims, I believe too much myth is out there. So, anyone that can speak to this, please do! There are a lot of members here that have a wealth of information about so many things.

A list of all the Christian countries conquered by Moslems:

A partial list of all the Moslem countries conquered by Christians: Morocco, Algeria, Tunnisia, Libya, Egypt, Dudan, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Iran Pakistan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait,Yemen, Oman, Abu Dhabi, Dubai...
This does not include minor Christian conquests such as North, South, and Central, America, India, China, Southeast Asia, and Africa.[/QUOTE]

Isn't it sufficient to say that there is no faith in the history of mankind of this planet as replete with atrocity and horror as what has been perpetrated in the name of Jesus Christ? Nothing even comes in as a close second.

Here is a tidbit unknown to most people. Islam was known to the indigenous Americans long before Columbus and his crew even considered setting sail. Native lore is replete with names such as Mahmood, Ahmed and even Muhammed. Names such as Tallahassee (FL) are straight out of the Arabic. The first European ships sailing into the West Indies glided past mosques.

I don't like to offer links, but suggest anyone who wishes to do so try a Google search simply using the words: Native American and Islam or Muslim.

Looking at native religion as it evolved, glimpses of Islam are very apparent. Particularly clear is the Native American's great respect for life and the land. Hope this is on interest to somebody.

Well, we got the First Americans when we arrived and murdered most of them. Guess we're going to get them again on a second round.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Jude

A list of all the Christian countries conquered by Moslems:

A partial list of all the Moslem countries conquered by Christians: Morocco, Algeria, Tunnisia, Libya, Egypt, Dudan, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Iran Pakistan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait,Yemen, Oman, Abu Dhabi, Dubai...
This does not include minor Christian conquests such as North, South, and Central, America, India, China, Southeast Asia, and Africa.

Isn't it sufficient to say that there is no faith in the history of mankind of this planet as replete with atrocity and horror as what has been perpetrated in the name of Jesus Christ? Nothing even comes in as a close second.

Here is a tidbit unknown to most people. Islam was known to the indigenous Americans long before Columbus and his crew even considered setting sail. Native lore is replete with names such as Mahmood, Ahmed and even Muhammed. Names such as Tallahassee (FL) are straight out of the Arabic. The first European ships sailing into the West Indies glided past mosques.

I don't like to offer links, but suggest anyone who wishes to do so try a Google search simply using the words: Native American and Islam or Muslim.

Looking at native religion as it evolved, glimpses of Islam are very apparent. Particularly clear is the Native American's great respect for life and the land. Hope this is on interest to somebody.

Well, we got the First Americans when we arrived and murdered most of them. Guess we're going to get them again on a second round.

Kept reading through the thread and I really don't understand where you're getting this information. You've not given any sources for your information, and I've never read any of the sort. It all seems very outlandish.

I took the liberty of looking up the etymology of Tallahassee and discovered that it means "tribal town" or "old town" in the Creek language, which has no relation to any Arab languages.

I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on North or South American Aboriginal spirituality, but I have done a decent amount of reading on Aboriginal shamanism and spirituality globally. I can't say I've ever read of anything suggesting that "Native lore is replete with names such as Mahmood, Ahmed and even Muhammed." That the first European ships glided past mosques in the West Indies is just beyond science fiction. Please provide a link to your info because I'm not sure I can suspend belief that far.

As for your info on Christian invasions of "Muslim lands" vs. Muslim invasions of "Christian lands"...again, seems to be the product of misinformation.

Some examples:

One of the first Christian vs. Muslim conflicts was the conquest of the Christian Iberian Peninsula (modern day Spain and Portugal) by the North African Umayyad dynasty; a Muslim dynasty. Muslims ruled over the Iberian Peninsula for the next 6-7 centuries until the "reconquista" that placed Christians back into power.

During that time Muslim forces repeatedly attempted to invade and conquer southern France, but were repeatedly pushed back by Christian Frankish forces and completely pulled out by the 10th century.

Greece: The Christian Byzantine (Greek) Empire stretched into Asia Minor/Anatolia until the recently Muslim Seljuk Turks began their invasions against the Byzantine Greeks. The Byzantine Emperor eventually appealed for help against Muslim Turkish invasions from western Christendom; the appeal that began the First Crusade. As I'm sure you know, what was once Christian Greek land is now modern day Turkey and probably the only remaining "Christian" lands still in "Muslim hands." The reason for this is likely due to Europe's history, which has resulted in a western world that tends to be more advanced in its military tactics and use of weaponry. Which does in no way detract any credit from the military tactics of other nations. The Mongolians and Seljuk Turks had absolutely amazing swarming cavalry tactics that I'm, personally, a huge fan of ...but at the end of the day (probably due to social circumstances rather than anything military) they did not manage to retain most of their conquered lands.

The truth is, Christian/Muslim hostility has had a long and complex history with precedence in a European/Middle Eastern conflict outdating Christianity in Europe and Islam in the Middle East.

I get the feeling that, with current global relations being what they are, many who oppose Arab oppression in western nations (and rightfully so, since I don't believe oppression should go unchecked) attempt to make it into a good vs. bad sort of deal. As though Muslims had no role in the initiation of the Crusades (which, in fact, their invasions into south-eastern Europe initiated) or any of the more recent conflicts. It turns into a Muslims/Arabs = Good, Christians/Westerners = Bad kind of equation that seems to sometimes lead to a weird kind of historical revisionism. The truth ain't so black and white and each side had a role to play in today's conflicts as well as those of the past.

[AtLast]

So, does anyone else think that the Muslim investigative panels going on in the US Congress are "witch-hunt" material?

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

So, does anyone else think that the Muslim investigative panels going on in the US Congress are "witch-hunt" material?

Joe McCarthy sound familiar? Lee Atwater?

It would be nice if they would actually take a hard look at homegrown USA terrorist who are not Muslim.....

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Joe McCarthy sound familiar? Lee Atwater?

It would be nice if they would actually take a hard look at homegrown USA terrorist who are not Muslim.....

I agree- Tim McVey comes to mind. And the fact that many Muslim people here have been key in alerting authorities to possible problems, including some that involves their own relatives.

Then there is King's own past backing the IRA!!! Gee, ya' think he might have a thing about skin color?

[Jude]

Did you know that the Monguls conquered the Muslims (those piles of skulls tend to be Islamic ones).............. then they turned around and embraced Islam. It is believed that the early descendants of the Native Americans were Monguls. That may answer, in part, why Islam was known in the americans long before the arrival of Columbus.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Jude

Did you know that the Monguls conquered the Muslims (those piles of skulls tend to be Islamic ones).............. then they turned around and embraced Islam. It is believed that the early descendants of the Native Americans were Monguls. That may answer, in part, why Islam was known in the americans long before the arrival of Columbus.

I sure didn't know this! WOW! And this is bringing a lot of linkages to mind to consider! Thanks.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Jude

Did you know that the Monguls conquered the Muslims (those piles of skulls tend to be Islamic ones).............. then they turned around and embraced Islam. It is believed that the early descendants of the Native Americans were Mongols. That may answer, in part, why Islam was known in the americans long before the arrival of Columbus.

I would love to see some references concerning Native Americans (NA) originating/descending from the people of eastern Mongolia and Manchuria. If memory serves this used to be taught, but now with mitochondrial DNA it's not true.

Of course Islam was known by the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Those 'heathen barbarian savages' from around the world knew how to sail and navigate the oceans.

Muhammad heard from Allah around 610CE and then started spreading the word. It's not surprising that NA knew of Islam before Columbus invaded the Americas

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Jude

Did you know that the Monguls conquered the Muslims (those piles of skulls tend to be Islamic ones).............. then they turned around and embraced Islam. It is believed that the early descendants of the Native Americans were Monguls. That may answer, in part, why Islam was known in the americans long before the arrival of Columbus.

I'm not so sure about that. It's been a while but the last I read (2008 or so) was that the population that became the natives of both North and South America arrived here ~12,000 BCE quite a bit before Islam. I have even read estimates going back as far as 40 - 50,000 BCE although there does not appear to be a great deal of evidence in support of it.

ALL indigenous Western Hemisphere populations are more closely related to one another than ANY of those populations are related to Siberian or East Asian populations. This strongly suggests a rather distant genetic split.



Cheers
Aj

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Jude

Did you know that the Monguls conquered the Muslims (those piles of skulls tend to be Islamic ones).............. then they turned around and embraced Islam. It is believed that the early descendants of the Native Americans were Monguls. That may answer, in part, why Islam was known in the americans long before the arrival of Columbus.

I find that highly improbable given that North American aboriginals crossed into modern day North America long before the creation of Judeo-Christian Islamic religions and long before the existence of Mongolia and the Mongolian invasions into eastern and central Europe, the Middle East and other Asiatic regions.

That said, yes they're related to other Eurasian/Asiatic groups populating northern Europe and northern and central Asia genetically, but that doesn't mean they have anything to do with the Mongols or had any contact with the Eurasian/Asiatic regions past the initial migration period.

And even if they had had contact with the Mongols of the European medieval period, that would have meant they would have been equally exposed to Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and a number of other religions assimilated into the empire given that the Mongols (unlike other invaders) adopted some form of nearly every religion they came into contact with. That was one of the reasons the Mongols were so successful in their initial invasions, because instead of alienating or enslaving their conquered peoples, they would immediately assimilate them into their army and into their religious beliefs. This was arguably one of the causes of their demise as well.

So no, Aboriginal North/South Americans were not descended from the Mongols of the Mongolian Empire, nor did they have contact with Islam prior to colonisation as far as I've ever read.