Dating a Trans Person (FTM)

Melissa · 09-21-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isadora

Seriously, I don't think it is a hassle. I think what it does is make you look at your old paradigms of how you feel about your self, how you feel about men and learning to accept the changes that come along with any paradigm shift in yourself or someone you love.

I found it not to be challenging in the changes he went through but I did look at myself differently. In that wow, I felt comfortable, I felt cherished and respected as a partner, I felt honoured to be part of his life. I still do. I learned so much about him and so much about me. I learned about integrity and honesty. I learned that my "labels" for myself, the names I used to id flowed more graciously into my life and I changed, I transformed with him.

I used to watch him when we checked into hotels. The painful expression of having to explain why the ID did not meet the 6' man that was standing before her. When that changed there was a broadening of comfort, a hallelujah of joy and I just wanted to throw my arms in the air and dance like I was in some kind of musical.

Do I get seen as another woman with her man. Why, yes I probably did and do. Do I care? No, I just wanted my man. I just wanted to see the smile that started from his heart and shown so bright in his eyes.

To me, this is not a hassle.

Great post. It really does make you think about gender, identity, sexuality, relationships. It opens up a whole new point of view and its been very welcomed. I think we go on this journey with our partners and share many of their fears and hopes and also enjoy all the positives. For me, there have been no negatives.

Melissa

julieisafemme · 09-21-2010, 12:40 PM

Hi Zora. There is a lot of support for partners in San Francisco. I go to a once a month meeting there and I will send you the information on that. It is hugely helpful to me.

I met my partner almost two years ago. He had been on T for 6 months. I have always related to him as he so that was not an issue for me. The change physically, emotionally and spiritually for him has been quite an experience. I can relate to all the things other partners have posted. I have spent a lot of time considering my own gender and his. I have read a lot of books on the subject. We also went to the Gender Spectrum conference in Seattle last year. I highly recommend that. The next one is in 2011.

The whole identity thing is kind of a can of worms for me. Both my partner and I are happy and comfortable to identify as Queer. We can parse it down from there but we are Queer and my partner is not in the closet about his gender. Not that this is a bad thing. Just a choice he has made and that I am fine with as well.

The most tiresome aspect of his transition has been explaning it to others. If you can, set boundaries around that. It took me a year before I realized that I do not have to answer everyone's questions! That took a huge burden off me.

PearlsNLace · 09-21-2010, 01:44 PM

Im so glad you have found us.

I have been with a few guys, in varying stages of transition. Some, I have casually dated. 2, have been partners. My fiance just got his prescription for T, and due to the fact that its going through an online pharmacy, literally the change is in the mail.

I did not struggle with pronouns when I have dated transguys. But, as a mother to a transwoman (my former foster child is almost 22years old) I have found it difficult to speak of the past. In OUR past, my storys are of who HE was, what HE did. It can be difficult to share without sharing more than is needed. There are people I am sure who wonder why I always talk about my sons past, and whats going on with my daughters future. I find today that I explain details on an as needed basis. My needs, I might add, not any one elses needs.

Each guy will handle his transition uniquely. One guy I dated got very enthusiastic about every facial hair that grew, and frequently used my masquera or eyelash dye to make them stand out. And wanted me to celebrate with each new hair. Ive met guys who have chosen to stay clean shaven throughout even their early journey with T. Voice changes, fat pad changes, all of these will have a different meaning for each person.
And, I know some guys who do NOT start T, and there are a host of reasons for that. And then there are the challenges of binding the chest vs surgery, or is that a big deal at all? It isnt at all for 2 men I know- one whos chest is clearly evident (while sporting a full beard) and one guy who binds enough that it just doesnt show and he passes without comment.

Is it a hassle to go through this? Honestly (to Jet) it can be for me. But that has more to do with what the quality of the RELATIONSHIP Im having with the person at the time. And the individuals maturity and personality pre T is a big deal. If the only social conversation the guy Im dating seems to be able to have is about gender, his transition, the way the world reacts differently as he begins to pass, and more about HIM, then, well, truth is his transition is probably just exacerbating the features that were allready there, like being a boring self absorbed pain in the ass. Im not saying that transition isnt a big deal, because it is. But I have found that for a early transitioning relationship to thrive there needs to be other things that also take precidence in focus. Interests that do NOT revolve around transition are vital.

I have often dealt with the "does this make you straight" question. For me, I feel it just reaffirms just how queer I am. Im so queer, you cant tell unless you know a LOT about my sex practices, and there are just a thousand things you really dont need to know, if your still asking me if Im straight now. This is my newest come back, and I am by no means an expert. Quippy comebacks have been usefull for me. But it depends on the mood Im in, and the setting/the relationship with the asker that I have, and what my needs are.

I keep bringing up needs. There is a reason. As I was first getting into a relationship with a guy in early transition, it was at a time I was not clear on what my needs where. Nor did I have the self esteem to realize it was ok to have needs if they were in opposition to someone elses needs. I hadnt learned to voice them, I didnt know that comprimises could be made. I just gave in. Gave energy, gave time, gave money, and gave a lot of emotion to someone elses needs. That was my part in creating a bad situation. I learned a whole hell of a lot by that, and do not regret that part of my journey today. What I know now, a few years later is that 1) i have needs 2) I can communicate those needs 3) I can listen to others needs 4) I can help us both get our needs met (often. Sometimes not, and when that happens, it sucks, but the communication keeps going.) These lessons helped me have a really solid relationship begin with someone else. And Im happily engaged to Paphigleo today.

Since some have allready addressed emotional demeanor and personality issues, Im only going to add what I havent seen in the discussion all ready.
Usually, what I see is that T helps a guy settle into his own self. I know thats vague. Paphigleos words are probably more clear, so I will borrow them- what he has seen is that it "chills them out". Clear as mud? Ive seen guys become less, not more, agitated. Now, I have seen the response time between stimulus and reaction shorten, squeezing out the space for rational thought, creating Homer Simpson like DOH! moments. (for those not indoctrinated in all that is Simpson, I apologize for the reference) It is importatant for testosterone levels to be regulated. When a guy is on too much T, over reactions can be bad and its not pretty. My favorite example of this is on a popular movie called "50 first dates" with Drew Barrymore. The main charachters brother is a pretty comedic representation of what too much testosterone can look like.

This is a journey. No one can tell you what the true destination will be. So find some friends who love you, who SEE YOU, and know that your need for information and support is VALID. Again, Im glad you found US.

Pearls

betenoire · 09-21-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

Is it a hassle to go through this? Honestly (to Jet) it can be for me. But that has more to do with what the quality of the RELATIONSHIP Im having with the person at the time. And the individuals maturity and personality pre T is a big deal. If the only social conversation the guy Im dating seems to be able to have is about gender, his transition, the way the world reacts differently as he begins to pass, and more about HIM, then, well, truth is his transition is probably just exacerbating the features that were allready there, like being a boring self absorbed pain in the ass. Im not saying that transition isnt a big deal, because it is. But I have found that for a early transitioning relationship to thrive there needs to be other things that also take precidence in focus. Interests that do NOT revolve around transition are vital.

This needs repeating.

Remember: You are NOT a bad person if you want to talk about something other than his transition. You are NOT unsupportive if you want to talk about something other than his transition. You are NOT a giant transphobe meaniehead if you want to talk about something other than his transition.

I'm not saying it's normal to never want to talk about your guy's new hair. I'm just saying that you're a person too and you still deserve to talk about what happened at work today, that the phonebill is due tomorrow, what you both should have for dinner, etc.

If you don't take care of you, if you don't make sure that you're BOTH taking care of your relationship - you're going to end up wicked unhappy, resentful, and maybe feel a lot ripped off.

firie · 09-21-2010, 08:30 PM

What a great thread! Thanks Zora!

I went about thanking everyone before I could rep, but truly to those posting, I have really appreciated what has been shared here.

I have to say that Dylan's transition has quite happily been mine, and we have grown together in every minute of it. I have learned alongside him, and have grown in ways that I did not expect.

Dylan has been on T for over a year. This has been a really smooth, enjoyable experience for both of us. I love every little hair (new or doomed to fall out) on him (and I know in some relationships there needs to be boundary there, certainly) and so I have loved every change that has come about. He talks a lot about it, but so do I, and we are always talking to each other.

As for identity, I have never identified as a lesbian, and find queer the best fit for me at this point in time. As far as navigating in the world, I agree with Julie for the most part, that explaining things can be tiresome, but I am really developing a confidence in educating people. I really don't care what most people think. I am the queer girl who dates the trans guy at work. People are social worky enough there to get that whether they ever understand pronouns. They might judge me privately but I am too good at my job to be openly discriminated against. And if I was, I would sue.

T has been joyous, honestly. I give Dylan his shots weekly and there is something wonderful about shooting the shit into his ass--kind of a pay back for his transgressions throughout the week. Teehee.

We read a lot. One thing that might be helpful to you, Zora and partner, is youtube. Guys videotape their experiences to share and some walk through this each week, or month, for a year or so. I have to say that this was so informative for me and really salute the guys who share this information.

I have really found--and others may have as well--that I enjoy being a member of the trans community as a SOFFA, and the more I learn and become a part of it, I value its place and worth in my life. I identify as queer, but feel to be an actual part of the trans community, as a SOFFA. I have no issue with saying that if I were to situate myself in the acronym of GLBT, I would be in that T. I feel most at home in that place now.

I also think often that when we have these conversations there is a great fear (and naturally) of loss, yet I have found quite the opposite, and particularly with respect to community. I have often found in conversations a worry and fear of losing a sense of community--in that, well, if you are femme/lesbian/butch and partnering with a guy, you are straight! or you are totally without queer community! or you are a weirdo! or you are totally no longer a lesbian! or if you are butch and partnering with a guy, you're a fag! or what are you any way?!?!?! That's gross--any one who questions you in where you stand has issues, yanno? Why should they really, truly care so long as you are happy?

I think personally that there is something to embrace in growing in community--particularly if a couple is comfortable in the trans community--in the sense of going to events, celebrations, political things, groups, marches, camps, etc (its understandable if they are not--as sometimes this might complicate passing), but it is immensely diverse and immensely strong, and has such an incredibly beautiful and tremendously valid history among those other letters of the "queer" spectrum.

I do advise this: don't let anyone butt into your love life because they have some need to make you feel weird about it. This is again an issue the person has and, well, its likely transphobia. This goes for everyone, your family, your friends, your community. If you love this person and life is happy on a daily basis, enjoy that immensely and tell everyone else to go to hell. I also advise that NO ONE has the right to judge your sex life in this relationship, ask you questions about it when you don't feel comfortable answering, or make you feel that you are somehow controlled by his transition (and this is in no way in any reference to what Bet said--just want to caveat there). When I say this, I mean specifically where a person transphobically assumes that his transition somehow is damaging to you just because of what it is.

I will say that what has amazed me most is the utmost patience that is often extended by the trans community with respect to the constant poking and prodding of questions and expectations--which is also extended quite frequently to SOFFAS--to explain the nature of what is "trans" to people who are too lazy to google.

My advice is that you only speak with those you like talking to about it, and if you start feeling weird about how a person might be prying or being phobic or just being ghastly (some people think it is perfectly acceptable to say whatever they feel about a transition without any thought as to how it might impact a person), nip that one in the bud until they can learn to speak to you in a way that is unoffensive and on your terms of what is comfortable. I have had to flat up tell a friend at work that I don't dissect my love life with anyone when she was prodding about Dylan and I. People are curious and nosy, and if they are respectful, that's fine. But flip in your head when the questions come and ask: would I ever say such things to them about their identity? Their relationship? Their loved ones? Set up that boundary, hon-because folks can say the darnedest of things!

Also, as many are saying here, T doesn't hit your guy overnight and make him a monster. That is transphobia at work, and it's a bunch of crap. This whole "rage" and "moody" bullshit is simply that. You can pull that up in research if need be.

I would also recommend reading and talking with folks in the medical community--the doctors and therapists out there who are awesomely trans supportive.

You are also welcome to PM me whenever. If you ever want to chat with Dylan and I in any other way, too, because he's a great resource, you just let us know.

atomiczombie · 09-24-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firie

What a great thread! Thanks Zora!

I went about thanking everyone before I could rep, but truly to those posting, I have really appreciated what has been shared here.

I have to say that Dylan's transition has quite happily been mine, and we have grown together in every minute of it. I have learned alongside him, and have grown in ways that I did not expect.

Dylan has been on T for over a year. This has been a really smooth, enjoyable experience for both of us. I love every little hair (new or doomed to fall out) on him (and I know in some relationships there needs to be boundary there, certainly) and so I have loved every change that has come about. He talks a lot about it, but so do I, and we are always talking to each other.

As for identity, I have never identified as a lesbian, and find queer the best fit for me at this point in time. As far as navigating in the world, I agree with Julie for the most part, that explaining things can be tiresome, but I am really developing a confidence in educating people. I really don't care what most people think. I am the queer girl who dates the trans guy at work. People are social worky enough there to get that whether they ever understand pronouns. They might judge me privately but I am too good at my job to be openly discriminated against. And if I was, I would sue.

T has been joyous, honestly. I give Dylan his shots weekly and there is something wonderful about shooting the shit into his ass--kind of a pay back for his transgressions throughout the week. Teehee.

We read a lot. One thing that might be helpful to you, Zora and partner, is youtube. Guys videotape their experiences to share and some walk through this each week, or month, for a year or so. I have to say that this was so informative for me and really salute the guys who share this information.

I have really found--and others may have as well--that I enjoy being a member of the trans community as a SOFFA, and the more I learn and become a part of it, I value its place and worth in my life. I identify as queer, but feel to be an actual part of the trans community, as a SOFFA. I have no issue with saying that if I were to situate myself in the acronym of GLBT, I would be in that T. I feel most at home in that place now.

I also think often that when we have these conversations there is a great fear (and naturally) of loss, yet I have found quite the opposite, and particularly with respect to community. I have often found in conversations a worry and fear of losing a sense of community--in that, well, if you are femme/lesbian/butch and partnering with a guy, you are straight! or you are totally without queer community! or you are a weirdo! or you are totally no longer a lesbian! or if you are butch and partnering with a guy, you're a fag! or what are you any way?!?!?! That's gross--any one who questions you in where you stand has issues, yanno? Why should they really, truly care so long as you are happy?

I think personally that there is something to embrace in growing in community--particularly if a couple is comfortable in the trans community--in the sense of going to events, celebrations, political things, groups, marches, camps, etc (its understandable if they are not--as sometimes this might complicate passing), but it is immensely diverse and immensely strong, and has such an incredibly beautiful and tremendously valid history among those other letters of the "queer" spectrum.

I do advise this: don't let anyone butt into your love life because they have some need to make you feel weird about it. This is again an issue the person has and, well, its likely transphobia. This goes for everyone, your family, your friends, your community. If you love this person and life is happy on a daily basis, enjoy that immensely and tell everyone else to go to hell. I also advise that NO ONE has the right to judge your sex life in this relationship, ask you questions about it when you don't feel comfortable answering, or make you feel that you are somehow controlled by his transition (and this is in no way in any reference to what Bet said--just want to caveat there). When I say this, I mean specifically where a person transphobically assumes that his transition somehow is damaging to you just because of what it is.

I will say that what has amazed me most is the utmost patience that is often extended by the trans community with respect to the constant poking and prodding of questions and expectations--which is also extended quite frequently to SOFFAS--to explain the nature of what is "trans" to people who are too lazy to google.

My advice is that you only speak with those you like talking to about it, and if you start feeling weird about how a person might be prying or being phobic or just being ghastly (some people think it is perfectly acceptable to say whatever they feel about a transition without any thought as to how it might impact a person), nip that one in the bud until they can learn to speak to you in a way that is unoffensive and on your terms of what is comfortable. I have had to flat up tell a friend at work that I don't dissect my love life with anyone when she was prodding about Dylan and I. People are curious and nosy, and if they are respectful, that's fine. But flip in your head when the questions come and ask: would I ever say such things to them about their identity? Their relationship? Their loved ones? Set up that boundary, hon-because folks can say the darnedest of things!

Also, as many are saying here, T doesn't hit your guy overnight and make him a monster. That is transphobia at work, and it's a bunch of crap. This whole "rage" and "moody" bullshit is simply that. You can pull that up in research if need be.

I would also recommend reading and talking with folks in the medical community--the doctors and therapists out there who are awesomely trans supportive.

You are also welcome to PM me whenever. If you ever want to chat with Dylan and I in any other way, too, because he's a great resource, you just let us know.

I think Dylan is an extremely lucky guy.

Zora77 · 09-21-2010, 08:47 PM

A big THANK YOU to all of you for your insights and comments. It’s definitely food for thought and much appreciated! Also, great advice on joining a support group – which I will do once I mustered up some courage.

I think in parts I’m just very unsure of what to expect because I have seen so many changes in him already since we met about a year ago.

If he decides to take T, it looks like I’d have to deal with possible mood or even personality changes, being perceived as a straight couple, some hairy discussions and hey, if the sex drive would get any higher than it already is, I might have to take some myself to keep up

Not taking T, I imagine, must be even harder because you stake out your spot outside of the comfort zone of society and have to deal with constant confusion and possibly also hostility. I’m curious to learn more about how that route is traveled. I can imagine it sucks to be perceived and related to differently than you feel and want most of the time – and as the partner I would cringe and get upset when witnessing this kind of ignorance.

Part of me almost hopes he’ll take T – and in thinking that, I feel confronted with my own desire not to rock the boat or just fit in. But he is concerned about T being associated with a higher risk of cancer and I’d rather see him healthy and not fit in that accepting that risk.

No idea what will happen - but then again, who can ever know what to expect in any relationship anyway, right? And on some level I have always enjoyed challenging myself and others. Thanks again. It feels really good to hear that I’m not the only one thinking about these things.

SFFemmePrincess · 09-24-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Hi Zora. There is a lot of support for partners in San Francisco. I go to a once a month meeting there and I will send you the information on that. It is hugely helpful to me.

Can you send me the information as well julie? Thanks!

violaine · 09-24-2010, 05:49 PM

re: Zorra77's post-
Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc.

one way to lessen any pressure on yourself, is for him to tell is own journey? i also like what firie wrote!

i've been talking to someone recently, a great and accepting sort of guy- bio, but not about my ex and the process of his transition- though the topic may eventually surface, it's a discussion first between them; i'm pretty sure raised eyebrows won't be an issue, but if i see any, i'll get over it- or he will.

Jet · 09-24-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violaine

re: Zorra77's post-
Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc.

one way to lessen any pressure on yourself, is for him to tell is own journey? i also like what firie wrote!

i've been talking to someone recently, a great and accepting sort of guy- bio, but not about my ex and the process of his transition- though the topic may eventually surface, it's a discussion first between them; i'm pretty sure raised eyebrows won't be an issue, but if i see any, i'll get over it- or he will.

you go girl.
It's an ever precarious journey though, is it not?

WingsOnFire · 09-24-2010, 06:59 PM

I love this thread and all the responses. Damon knows I was a little unsure about the transition to being with a transgendered person when we met. However I was madly in love with him and didnt care how he identified. "He" was who I wanted to be with. I slipped in the beginning with calling him "he". He was very understanding and worked with me. I have friends who I care very much for that know. The rest I really dont give a damn. I lost many lesbian friends who just judged me for my relationship. In the end I realized if they couldnt be happy for me then I didnt need them. I made the right choice.

I feel completely natural talking about my "boyfriend" with my family and friends. I dont explain. I used to feel like I needed to explain and quite frankly those conversations with Damon were sometimes painful because I felt I needed to explain and he wanted to know why? I guess then it was wanting to be accepted. I realized quickly that I could care less if someone accepted me or not. If they didnt I just walked away.

I like the advice of a SOFFA yahoo group. I didnt even think of that. LOL I have forgotten the questions now after reading such wonderful responses... Good luck with your relationship and remember, communication is the key.

Becca

Ursy · 09-25-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet

you go girl.
It's an ever precarious journey though, is it not?

I love that - precarious journey (has a poetic ring to it)... and in some ways it is - but oh what a privileged journey it is as well. Not many people can say they've experienced what us partners of trans* people have - by this I mean witnessing a person "come into being" (I don't quite know how to put it) but it's kind of breathtaking. I wouldn't swap it for anything in the world, to see the one you love "growing into" the person he always was but who the world previously couldn't see.

Yep, it's difficult sometimes, and you'll meet up with ignorance (of all sorts: well-meaning, clueless and downright malicious) too - but the alternative - to have him trapped in an existence that isn't his own... that denies him his authenticity - that's the unthinkable part.

It's like that saying - I forget how it goes exactly but something like "nothing worth having comes easy".

Bleh, I can wax lyrical sometimes. But it's only because it's one of the few things I'm actually passionate about.

Zora77 · 09-27-2010, 10:07 PM

I keep coming back to his thread and reading through your responses that all are tremendously helpful. I assume that embarking on this journey will come in many stages and facets that differ greatly from person to person. There is one that I currently am chewing on and not too much has been said about it (maybe because most of the trans folks and their partners who did respond here are on T).

I have a few questions for those of you whose partner is pre-T and pre-op: Does he pass? Are you being perceived as a female/male couple? If not, how do you deal with the issue of being perceived as two women? And how does it impact how you perceive your partner and yourself? Does it?

For some reason this is something that I do think about at this point because R. does not pass. In appearance and body language he is less ‘masculine’ than some female identified butches I have dated and he is more emotional and sensitive as well – even more than me. In my conversations with friends I run into surprised reactions and disbelief (because they all met him as a woman). And when I’m honest there is this part of me that has doubts and I feel really bad and guilty for having these thoughts.

It would be lovely if some if you could share more about transitioning without T and surgeries. How do you deal with the "but he does not look like a guy" response?

This really challenges me - but ultimately I think it's a good thing.

Thanks.

09-21-2010, 12:40 PM	#2
julieisafemme Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to Greyson Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the present Posts: 828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,156 Thanked 3,434 Times in 660 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Hi Zora. There is a lot of support for partners in San Francisco. I go to a once a month meeting there and I will send you the information on that. It is hugely helpful to me. I met my partner almost two years ago. He had been on T for 6 months. I have always related to him as he so that was not an issue for me. The change physically, emotionally and spiritually for him has been quite an experience. I can relate to all the things other partners have posted. I have spent a lot of time considering my own gender and his. I have read a lot of books on the subject. We also went to the Gender Spectrum conference in Seattle last year. I highly recommend that. The next one is in 2011. The whole identity thing is kind of a can of worms for me. Both my partner and I are happy and comfortable to identify as Queer. We can parse it down from there but we are Queer and my partner is not in the closet about his gender. Not that this is a bad thing. Just a choice he has made and that I am fine with as well. The most tiresome aspect of his transition has been explaning it to others. If you can, set boundaries around that. It took me a year before I realized that I do not have to answer everyone's questions! That took a huge burden off me. __________________ Happiness Bubbling!

09-24-2010, 05:49 PM	#9
violaine Timed Out How Do You Identify?: atypical Preferred Pronoun?: plague words and phrases Relationship Status: love wise guys of the avian world Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: wekiva springs basin Posts: 3,236 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,934 Thanked 3,293 Times in 1,301 Posts Rep Power: 0	re: Zorra77's post- Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc. one way to lessen any pressure on yourself, is for him to tell is own journey? i also like what firie wrote! i've been talking to someone recently, a great and accepting sort of guy- bio, but not about my ex and the process of his transition- though the topic may eventually surface, it's a discussion first between them; i'm pretty sure raised eyebrows won't be an issue, but if i see any, i'll get over it- or he will. Last edited by violaine; 09-24-2010 at 05:54 PM.

09-24-2010, 06:59 PM	#11
WingsOnFire Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer..femme.. .babygirl...girl Preferred Pronoun?: Female Ones... Relationship Status: Enjoying life but ready to meet someone Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 3,945 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 12,015 Thanked 12,476 Times in 3,357 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	I love this thread and all the responses. Damon knows I was a little unsure about the transition to being with a transgendered person when we met. However I was madly in love with him and didnt care how he identified. "He" was who I wanted to be with. I slipped in the beginning with calling him "he". He was very understanding and worked with me. I have friends who I care very much for that know. The rest I really dont give a damn. I lost many lesbian friends who just judged me for my relationship. In the end I realized if they couldnt be happy for me then I didnt need them. I made the right choice. I feel completely natural talking about my "boyfriend" with my family and friends. I dont explain. I used to feel like I needed to explain and quite frankly those conversations with Damon were sometimes painful because I felt I needed to explain and he wanted to know why? I guess then it was wanting to be accepted. I realized quickly that I could care less if someone accepted me or not. If they didnt I just walked away. I like the advice of a SOFFA yahoo group. I didnt even think of that. LOL I have forgotten the questions now after reading such wonderful responses... Good luck with your relationship and remember, communication is the key. Becca __________________ Previously known as MidnightBlueEyes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://gailsforum.files.wordpress.co...-psd340941.png

09-27-2010, 10:07 PM	#13
Zora77 Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 58 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 72 Thanked 121 Times in 37 Posts Rep Power: 175636	More Questions I keep coming back to his thread and reading through your responses that all are tremendously helpful. I assume that embarking on this journey will come in many stages and facets that differ greatly from person to person. There is one that I currently am chewing on and not too much has been said about it (maybe because most of the trans folks and their partners who did respond here are on T). I have a few questions for those of you whose partner is pre-T and pre-op: Does he pass? Are you being perceived as a female/male couple? If not, how do you deal with the issue of being perceived as two women? And how does it impact how you perceive your partner and yourself? Does it? For some reason this is something that I do think about at this point because R. does not pass. In appearance and body language he is less ‘masculine’ than some female identified butches I have dated and he is more emotional and sensitive as well – even more than me. In my conversations with friends I run into surprised reactions and disbelief (because they all met him as a woman). And when I’m honest there is this part of me that has doubts and I feel really bad and guilty for having these thoughts. It would be lovely if some if you could share more about transitioning without T and surgeries. How do you deal with the "but he does not look like a guy" response? This really challenges me - but ultimately I think it's a good thing. Thanks.

09-21-2010, 01:44 PM	#3
PearlsNLace Member How Do You Identify?: queer Preferred Pronoun?: They/Them & her/she Relationship Status: Lucky, very lucky Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portlandia, Oregon Posts: 427 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 875 Thanked 1,286 Times in 315 Posts Rep Power: 6505517	Im so glad you have found us. I have been with a few guys, in varying stages of transition. Some, I have casually dated. 2, have been partners. My fiance just got his prescription for T, and due to the fact that its going through an online pharmacy, literally the change is in the mail. I did not struggle with pronouns when I have dated transguys. But, as a mother to a transwoman (my former foster child is almost 22years old) I have found it difficult to speak of the past. In OUR past, my storys are of who HE was, what HE did. It can be difficult to share without sharing more than is needed. There are people I am sure who wonder why I always talk about my sons past, and whats going on with my daughters future. I find today that I explain details on an as needed basis. My needs, I might add, not any one elses needs. Each guy will handle his transition uniquely. One guy I dated got very enthusiastic about every facial hair that grew, and frequently used my masquera or eyelash dye to make them stand out. And wanted me to celebrate with each new hair. Ive met guys who have chosen to stay clean shaven throughout even their early journey with T. Voice changes, fat pad changes, all of these will have a different meaning for each person. And, I know some guys who do NOT start T, and there are a host of reasons for that. And then there are the challenges of binding the chest vs surgery, or is that a big deal at all? It isnt at all for 2 men I know- one whos chest is clearly evident (while sporting a full beard) and one guy who binds enough that it just doesnt show and he passes without comment. Is it a hassle to go through this? Honestly (to Jet) it can be for me. But that has more to do with what the quality of the RELATIONSHIP Im having with the person at the time. And the individuals maturity and personality pre T is a big deal. If the only social conversation the guy Im dating seems to be able to have is about gender, his transition, the way the world reacts differently as he begins to pass, and more about HIM, then, well, truth is his transition is probably just exacerbating the features that were allready there, like being a boring self absorbed pain in the ass. Im not saying that transition isnt a big deal, because it is. But I have found that for a early transitioning relationship to thrive there needs to be other things that also take precidence in focus. Interests that do NOT revolve around transition are vital. I have often dealt with the "does this make you straight" question. For me, I feel it just reaffirms just how queer I am. Im so queer, you cant tell unless you know a LOT about my sex practices, and there are just a thousand things you really dont need to know, if your still asking me if Im straight now. This is my newest come back, and I am by no means an expert. Quippy comebacks have been usefull for me. But it depends on the mood Im in, and the setting/the relationship with the asker that I have, and what my needs are. I keep bringing up needs. There is a reason. As I was first getting into a relationship with a guy in early transition, it was at a time I was not clear on what my needs where. Nor did I have the self esteem to realize it was ok to have needs if they were in opposition to someone elses needs. I hadnt learned to voice them, I didnt know that comprimises could be made. I just gave in. Gave energy, gave time, gave money, and gave a lot of emotion to someone elses needs. That was my part in creating a bad situation. I learned a whole hell of a lot by that, and do not regret that part of my journey today. What I know now, a few years later is that 1) i have needs 2) I can communicate those needs 3) I can listen to others needs 4) I can help us both get our needs met (often. Sometimes not, and when that happens, it sucks, but the communication keeps going.) These lessons helped me have a really solid relationship begin with someone else. And Im happily engaged to Paphigleo today. Since some have allready addressed emotional demeanor and personality issues, Im only going to add what I havent seen in the discussion all ready. Usually, what I see is that T helps a guy settle into his own self. I know thats vague. Paphigleos words are probably more clear, so I will borrow them- what he has seen is that it "chills them out". Clear as mud? Ive seen guys become less, not more, agitated. Now, I have seen the response time between stimulus and reaction shorten, squeezing out the space for rational thought, creating Homer Simpson like DOH! moments. (for those not indoctrinated in all that is Simpson, I apologize for the reference) It is importatant for testosterone levels to be regulated. When a guy is on too much T, over reactions can be bad and its not pretty. My favorite example of this is on a popular movie called "50 first dates" with Drew Barrymore. The main charachters brother is a pretty comedic representation of what too much testosterone can look like. This is a journey. No one can tell you what the true destination will be. So find some friends who love you, who SEE YOU, and know that your need for information and support is VALID. Again, Im glad you found US. Pearls

09-21-2010, 08:30 PM	#5
firie Timed Out How Do You Identify?: . Relationship Status: . Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: . Posts: 204 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 191 Thanked 469 Times in 128 Posts Rep Power: 0	What a great thread! Thanks Zora! I went about thanking everyone before I could rep, but truly to those posting, I have really appreciated what has been shared here. I have to say that Dylan's transition has quite happily been mine, and we have grown together in every minute of it. I have learned alongside him, and have grown in ways that I did not expect. Dylan has been on T for over a year. This has been a really smooth, enjoyable experience for both of us. I love every little hair (new or doomed to fall out) on him (and I know in some relationships there needs to be boundary there, certainly) and so I have loved every change that has come about. He talks a lot about it, but so do I, and we are always talking to each other. As for identity, I have never identified as a lesbian, and find queer the best fit for me at this point in time. As far as navigating in the world, I agree with Julie for the most part, that explaining things can be tiresome, but I am really developing a confidence in educating people. I really don't care what most people think. I am the queer girl who dates the trans guy at work. People are social worky enough there to get that whether they ever understand pronouns. They might judge me privately but I am too good at my job to be openly discriminated against. And if I was, I would sue. T has been joyous, honestly. I give Dylan his shots weekly and there is something wonderful about shooting the shit into his ass--kind of a pay back for his transgressions throughout the week. Teehee. We read a lot. One thing that might be helpful to you, Zora and partner, is youtube. Guys videotape their experiences to share and some walk through this each week, or month, for a year or so. I have to say that this was so informative for me and really salute the guys who share this information. I have really found--and others may have as well--that I enjoy being a member of the trans community as a SOFFA, and the more I learn and become a part of it, I value its place and worth in my life. I identify as queer, but feel to be an actual part of the trans community, as a SOFFA. I have no issue with saying that if I were to situate myself in the acronym of GLBT, I would be in that T. I feel most at home in that place now. I also think often that when we have these conversations there is a great fear (and naturally) of loss, yet I have found quite the opposite, and particularly with respect to community. I have often found in conversations a worry and fear of losing a sense of community--in that, well, if you are femme/lesbian/butch and partnering with a guy, you are straight! or you are totally without queer community! or you are a weirdo! or you are totally no longer a lesbian! or if you are butch and partnering with a guy, you're a fag! or what are you any way?!?!?! That's gross--any one who questions you in where you stand has issues, yanno? Why should they really, truly care so long as you are happy? I think personally that there is something to embrace in growing in community--particularly if a couple is comfortable in the trans community--in the sense of going to events, celebrations, political things, groups, marches, camps, etc (its understandable if they are not--as sometimes this might complicate passing), but it is immensely diverse and immensely strong, and has such an incredibly beautiful and tremendously valid history among those other letters of the "queer" spectrum. I do advise this: don't let anyone butt into your love life because they have some need to make you feel weird about it. This is again an issue the person has and, well, its likely transphobia. This goes for everyone, your family, your friends, your community. If you love this person and life is happy on a daily basis, enjoy that immensely and tell everyone else to go to hell. I also advise that NO ONE has the right to judge your sex life in this relationship, ask you questions about it when you don't feel comfortable answering, or make you feel that you are somehow controlled by his transition (and this is in no way in any reference to what Bet said--just want to caveat there). When I say this, I mean specifically where a person transphobically assumes that his transition somehow is damaging to you just because of what it is. I will say that what has amazed me most is the utmost patience that is often extended by the trans community with respect to the constant poking and prodding of questions and expectations--which is also extended quite frequently to SOFFAS--to explain the nature of what is "trans" to people who are too lazy to google. My advice is that you only speak with those you like talking to about it, and if you start feeling weird about how a person might be prying or being phobic or just being ghastly (some people think it is perfectly acceptable to say whatever they feel about a transition without any thought as to how it might impact a person), nip that one in the bud until they can learn to speak to you in a way that is unoffensive and on your terms of what is comfortable. I have had to flat up tell a friend at work that I don't dissect my love life with anyone when she was prodding about Dylan and I. People are curious and nosy, and if they are respectful, that's fine. But flip in your head when the questions come and ask: would I ever say such things to them about their identity? Their relationship? Their loved ones? Set up that boundary, hon-because folks can say the darnedest of things! Also, as many are saying here, T doesn't hit your guy overnight and make him a monster. That is transphobia at work, and it's a bunch of crap. This whole "rage" and "moody" bullshit is simply that. You can pull that up in research if need be. I would also recommend reading and talking with folks in the medical community--the doctors and therapists out there who are awesomely trans supportive. You are also welcome to PM me whenever. If you ever want to chat with Dylan and I in any other way, too, because he's a great resource, you just let us know.

09-21-2010, 08:47 PM	#7
Zora77 Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 58 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 72 Thanked 121 Times in 37 Posts Rep Power: 175636	A big THANK YOU to all of you for your insights and comments. It’s definitely food for thought and much appreciated! Also, great advice on joining a support group – which I will do once I mustered up some courage. I think in parts I’m just very unsure of what to expect because I have seen so many changes in him already since we met about a year ago. If he decides to take T, it looks like I’d have to deal with possible mood or even personality changes, being perceived as a straight couple, some hairy discussions and hey, if the sex drive would get any higher than it already is, I might have to take some myself to keep up Not taking T, I imagine, must be even harder because you stake out your spot outside of the comfort zone of society and have to deal with constant confusion and possibly also hostility. I’m curious to learn more about how that route is traveled. I can imagine it sucks to be perceived and related to differently than you feel and want most of the time – and as the partner I would cringe and get upset when witnessing this kind of ignorance. Part of me almost hopes he’ll take T – and in thinking that, I feel confronted with my own desire not to rock the boat or just fit in. But he is concerned about T being associated with a higher risk of cancer and I’d rather see him healthy and not fit in that accepting that risk. No idea what will happen - but then again, who can ever know what to expect in any relationship anyway, right? And on some level I have always enjoyed challenging myself and others. Thanks again. It feels really good to hear that I’m not the only one thinking about these things.