How's that gay and ultra-conservative working out?

[Medusa]

This might be a little off-topic and my apologies if I am clumsy when tryign to tie it together (50 hours worked this week and its only Thursday!!) -

Black, Gay and Republican:

http://www.metroweekly.com/news/last...gay-counc.html

Admittedly, I'm kinda fascinated by this guy.

http://www.glaaforum.org/glaa_forum/...tionnaire.html


I guess this is one of those times where $$ is more important to a person than their civil rights as a Gay person, and perhaps another example of class being the primary drive?

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Medusa

This might be a little off-topic and my apologies if I am clumsy when tryign to tie it together (50 hours worked this week and its only Thursday!!) -

Black, Gay and Republican:

http://www.metroweekly.com/news/last...gay-counc.html

Admittedly, I'm kinda fascinated by this guy.

http://www.glaaforum.org/glaa_forum/...tionnaire.html


I guess this is one of those times where $$ is more important to a person than their civil rights as a Gay person, and perhaps another example of class being the primary drive?

Actually what I find most interesting about these two gentlemen is that they actually harken back to an *older* Republican party. Now, do I think that either of these two men have a snowball's chance in hell of making it in national Republican politics? No. Outside of the D.C. metro area their campaigns would be effectively over before they started. However, in DC they can get some ink because of the novelty factor if nothing else.

They are an example of how the GOP has, in the long-term, shot itself in the foot in order to make short-term electoral gains. Over the long-haul all of the Tim Day's in the world won't move the black or queer votes in the direction of the GOP as long as the party continues to espouse positions that are either passively or actively hostile to those communities.

Cheers
Aj

[wolfbittenpoet]

What happened to Log Cabin Republicanism? What happened to when republicans really were the liberals? I know it's idealistic but I think we need a modern day Abe Lincoln. Suspend civil liberties it's already occuring but at least make some long term changes.

Plus whoever hired Anne Coulter must be smoking crack.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by wolfbittenpoet

What happened to Log Cabin Republicanism? What happened to when republicans really were the liberals?

What happened? Five words: Richard Milhouse Nixon, Southern Strategy.

Suspend civil liberties it's already occuring but at least make some long term changes.

Could you expand on what you mean by that? Are you saying that civil liberties *should* be suspended for the sake of making long-term changes?

Cheers
Aj

[wolfbittenpoet]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Could you expand on what you mean by that? Are you saying that civil liberties *should* be suspended for the sake of making long-term changes?

Cheers
Aj

Sorry forgot a sentence or my brain skipped. Civil liberties are being suspended or twisted out of recognition. I was referring to Lincoln's suspension of liberties during the Civil War. Yes it was wrong but changes came out of it. I don't see changes today except paranoia and more ways to define what should be undefinable.

I had purposely erased Tricky Dicky from my memory. If only he could be erased from history.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by wolfbittenpoet

Sorry forgot a sentence or my brain skipped. Civil liberties are being suspended or twisted out of recognition. I was referring to Lincoln's suspension of liberties during the Civil War. Yes it was wrong but changes came out of it. I don't see changes today except paranoia and more ways to define what should be undefinable.

I had purposely erased Tricky Dicky from my memory. If only he could be erased from history.

Thanks for clarifying. Whew! Yeah, I would love to purge Tricky Dick from my memory but, unfortunately, he's lodged up there. Plus as time goes on and the GOP tries to rewrite its history I find myself increasingly having to remind conservatives that the Southern Strategy REALLY existed, was actually written down, that the man who framed it (Kevin Phillips) is alive and kicking and completely repentant over what his idea(s) have wrought on the American body politic and that it has resulted in the purge of moderates from the GOP.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by wolfbittenpoet

What happened to Log Cabin Republicanism? What happened to when republicans really were the liberals? I know it's idealistic but I think we need a modern day Abe Lincoln. Suspend civil liberties it's already occuring but at least make some long term changes.

Plus whoever hired Anne Coulter must be smoking crack.

Since the Southern Strategy came up yesterday, I thought I would put in this quote from Kevin Phillips (who authored the strategy) as quoted by the WaPo's Eugene Robinson in his column this morning. This is Phillips interviewed by the NYT in 1970:

"From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that," Phillips said, "but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats."

Robinson goes on to say that he wishes the GOP would do more to court the black vote. I'm going to do him one better and say that the GOP would do well to court the black and *queer* votes. Now, before I get deeper into this let me make it clear I am a political liberal that believes that social democracy is the most stable form of politico-economic arrangement yet conceived. That said, I'm also a political pragmatist and so I think that the Democratic party should have to compete for my vote both as a lesbian and as a black woman. Yet they don't HAVE to compete for my vote because the other party has almost nothing at all to offer me in their stated platform. If I look at something BEYOND my own short-term economic interests then the Democratic party is my natural home.

This is why these two black gay Republicans make *some* kind of sense to me. If you ignore the theocratic bent of the Republican party or dismiss the religious right as simply so many snake-handlers meeting in a basement church then if you are on a certain part of the economic food chain then voting Republican makes sense. The GOP is doing what makes strategic sense in the short-term but not in the long term. They would be better served by trying to sheer off the more economically secure people of color and queer people but that would require them alienating their older, conservative, white Christian base which isn't about to happen anytime before I am old and grey.

Now, would I vote Republican if they did outreach? No, because I have reasons for voting liberally that goes beyond the social issues (pro-choice, pro gay rights, etc.) but the GOP SHOULD be competing for my vote but they aren't.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

They are an example of how the GOP has, in the long-term, shot itself in the foot in order to make short-term electoral gains. Over the long-haul all of the Tim Day's in the world won't move the black or queer votes in the direction of the GOP as long as the party continues to espouse positions that are either passively or actively hostile to those communities.

Cheers
Aj

Yes. The short-term gains frustrate me, but, I do believe they are short-term and will be short-lived.

My older sister is Republican (and a Nevada resident where Harry Reid is up for re-election against a tea-bag backed candidate), has some tea-bag mentality (although, my being queer does bring her back, at times- I see the wheels turning when I talk about many things in my life to her- we were estranged for many years). Yet, she does see the "crazies" as just that and doesn't want to be put in that pile. Since she is 74 years old, what the GOP once represented is part of her experience as well as when she was home with a labor sided Democratic father and mother that were unskilled farm workers while she was a small child.

I keep thinking that the Independents will eventually swing back to a more moderate to liberal stance as the mid-terms close in. Frankly, I don't believe the Dems will lose as many congressional seats as predicted. And some new data is showing this. But..... this is no time for complacency. Especially since the health Care reform legislation is getting bad press BEFORE it is phased in and the real benefits in the long-term are actually felt. And they will be if it is not chopped to hell between now and 2012.

Part of me believes that Obama was right on by going for health care reform even in the midst of our economic mess. Yet, this cost the Dems in the short-tem with the mid-terms. But, I don’t believe as much as the right-wingers believe.