Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

First of all, I stand up and applaud you as well. I appreciate that you did not call me names, put words in my mouth, assume you know me, my heart and what I feel, and think or that I am posting to play a victim here.

Let me now do the best I can do conveying what I think in this post. But I am not here to to have people not like my reasoning so they start assuming again.

I *DO NOT* oppose a community center.
I at first said "I thought it would be "inapproprite" to put a Mosque which I am being told is not a Mosque so a *community center* so close to ground zero.
I then apologized for using the word "inappropriate" because who am I to judge what is and is not appropriate?
I then said I thought it would be nice to have a center which represented all faiths as a place to come together.
Unfortunately, I then chose a poor source for a resource.
Now let me ask you something? Have you never put your foot into your own mouth before? I have on this thread. And I am done inserting it any farther. Understand?
Thanks.

Although, I am usually on the left side of these discussions and honestly view this entire story/issue as just one cog on the wheel of an ever increasing anti-Muslim ladder in the US - I get what you are saying, here.

So often, one statement from a poster is jumped all over when, everyone, has put a foot in their mouth at one time or another. It happens. And since we do not have a 3 dimensional way of "hearing" each other, I find pile ons (not saying that is happening presently) to be very unfair. And a tool for hindering communication because once put on the defensive, most people will dig further into their stance and not consider opposing convictions.

One of the things that I value the most on the site is seeing what other people think about issues, etc. I don't always agree, but, there have been many times that my own thinking has been enriched by someone else's take on things.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Florida pastor calls off Quran burning



http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/flo...pt=T1&iref=BN1

[SuperFemme]

so apparently he is saying that he is not going to burn them cuz some Islamic Leader told him that the "mosque" near Ground Zero will be moved elsewhere.

Which is false information, the man who made the statement has nothing to do with the Islamic Center in NY.

so the guy is going to NY on Saturday to meet with....?

eal estate mogul Donald Trump has offered to buy the lower Manhattan site where the Muslim group plans to build an Islamic community center for 25 percent more than the current owners paid for it.
Trump made the offer Thursday in a letter to Hisham Elzanaty, an investor in the Islamic center site.

"I am making this offer as a resident of New York and citizen of the United States, not because I think the location is a spectacular one (because it is not), but because it will end a very serious, inflammatory, and highly divisive situation that is destined, in my opinion, to only get worse," he wrote.

beejeezus some people have things so convoluted i don't even know what to think or say.

[Nat]

NY mosque investor declines Trump's buyout offer

[Nat]

Obama Sends Best Wishes to Muslims for Eid-al-Fitr

Mr. Obama said this year's Eid is also an occasion to reflect on the importance of religious tolerance.

President Obama said that this year, those affected by the devastated floods in Pakistan will be on the minds of many around the world. He said all Americans can participate in the relief, recovery and reconstruction efforts by donating to the Pakistan Relief Fund at www.state.gov.

[The_Lady_Snow]

*I* personally am glad that they did not take Trump's offer, what a pompous ass.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

*I* personally am glad that they did not take Trump's offer, what a pompous ass.

right?

and the pastor trading on act of Islamophobia for another makes me throw up in my mouth a little. asshat.

[paposeco]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

If someone finds your language offensive, why not find other language to express your opinion?

Why might someone might find language (like nuts and wacko) offensive?

If one member finds it offensive, then might other members find it offensive too?

If we're having a discussion about justice and tolerance shouldn't our collective language be a reflection of that?

Q: how many folks here on this thread, let alone on this site, have used the words, "nuts", "wacko" nut-jobs" ?? What are you going to do censor everybody that does use such "offensive" language?

Again and for the last time. The words I used, are the words I used, and they were NOT meant for anyone here!! I was describing the nuts, the people that hate on other people without even knowing them and causing all kinds of trouble etc etc...k? NOT about anyone here! Tell me, did you also contact others (in private too) that responded to the thread and got on their case about these 'offensive' words ? Someone took this too personally, giving that it wasn't even about them to begin with.
Look, I don't know you, if we disagree ok fine, we disagree..you may use words to express yourself that I may find offensive, but how would you know what those words are, you don't know me...does that keep you from expressing yourself, because I or somebody else (and I'm not talking about verbally attacking someone here because of their opinion) may find offensive?For the last time...I was NOT name calling anybody here those names, keep it in context! You wrote to me in private....among other things, that " I am awaiting your response...", well this is it. Peace and have a nice day.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

*I* personally am glad that they did not take Trump's offer, what a pompous ass.

Me, too! Pompous and always ready for the press and photo ops! Plus, can you imagine the flack from the right-wing with the 25% mark-up and what they would be saying about the money going to Islamic terrorist cells!?

[Corkey]

Sometimes good things happen.

http://www.towleroad.com/2010/09/dud...ecration-.html

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by paposeco

Q: how many folks here on this thread, let alone on this site, have used the words, "nuts", "wacko" nut-jobs" ??

I'm not sure, I haven't been counting and I'm sorry you're feeling singled out and victimized. I think you might be missing my point. FA took exception to your language and indicated that to you directly, yet you continue to use and defend your use of... that very same language.

A better question might be how many people purposely used that language after the exception was taken?

Whether or not I agree with FA's position regarding the main issue of this thread, I think in the least, we should respect another member's sensitivity to language. Language that I find dehumanizing and used to perpetuate inaccurate stereotypes of the mentally ill.

Originally Posted by paposeco

What are you going to do censor everybody that does use such "offensive" language?

I'm not interested in censoring you or anyone else for that matter and I'm sorry you feel censored. Censorship implies the suppression of language, specifically your language, by someone in a position of power...that clearly isn't the case here.

I'm interested in participating in conversations with people who behave sensitively and compassionately of their own volition. When someone has indicated a particular sensitivity to language, my hope is that the sensitivity is respected as one person's truth, and that their truth is upheld and honored...That's all really.

Originally Posted by paposeco

Tell me, did you also contact others (in private too) that responded to the thread and got on their case about these 'offensive' words?

You asked...

Originally Posted by paposeco

This is a democracy, if there are folks here that were offended by me and my opinion, please let me know.

...So I did.

In addition, I responded to you specifically because you indicated in this thread and in another thread that FA was the only person who took exception to your language. That clearly isn't the case, so I let you know privately that I also took exception to and currently take exception to, your continual use of the same language. I am happy to take this conversation back to private or to another thread entirely.

We may not intend to offend, but words can be like bullets and our keyboards like guns...if someone gets hurt, doesn't it make sense to put the safety on?

I think we need to be sensitive when using language that historically, has been derogatory. I think we should be especially sensitive when it feels like our insensitivity is targeting people who are already marginalized, like people with psychiatric disabilities.

Originally Posted by paposeco

you may use words to express yourself that I may find offensive

I may, and if I do, I hope you let me know that you found my language offensive, so that I can minimize the damage I do with my words.

[AtLast]

It appears that there was not only one mosque in the twin towers, but two (existed after 1999)! Both blown up on 9/11 obviously. Keith Olberman tonight cited that this was not reported via the media until Sat, 9/11 by a columist in the NY Times. Olberman also talked about how the media has been remiss in not discussing this earlier as this situation has unfolded. Sounded like he did not have this knowledge, as well- I certainly did not know this. I also have no problem with the proposed community center and prayer room (already talked about my personal experience with loss in tghe towers that day).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#39161595

This (above link) is the entire podcast of his show tonight, so you have to listen to other stories covered before you get to this info. and where the name of the columist is mentioned that brought this to light on Saturday.

Something else- There were people killed in Afghanistan during anti-US/West demonstrations due to the Florida preacher threatening to burn the Koran. It appears these were civilians that were shot by government troops (don't have links- read article in SF Chronicle morning at breakfast about this).

OK... I have used wacko, etc. and yes, I do use such terms often when referring to right-wing political or Christian extremists. However, since some have been offended, I have not in this thread since they mentioned this.

For me, if something offends another person and they stand up and let me know this, I feel like I should respect their feelings. there are probably quite a few terms/phrases that are offensive to me that can be fairly common and I appreciate it when someone respects my feelings. Frankly, I have learned that we all just can have sensitivities and if I dismiss these feelings, I am devaluing someone.

It isn't a big deal for me to refrain from using some of these terms. It's kind of like knowing that my mother would react to some swear words and out of respect for her, I didn't use them around her. I never felt censored due to this. other people may feel very differently about this.

[o222Good]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

It appears that there was not only one mosque in the twin towers, but two (existed after 1999)!

Thanks for sharing that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/ny...1religion.html

[sweetbutch26]

i don't believe in stereotyping a whole group based on what a few\minority do. our community should know that better than any other! the muslims that want the mosque don't want to fly planes into buildings or hurt or kill anyone and they had nothing to do with 9-11. true terrorism begins the day we lose our constitutional liberties such as freedom of religion.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by o222Good

Thanks for sharing that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/ny...1religion.html

Thanks for posting another link about this. It is troubling to me that this story didn't break sooner- shows the depth of anti-Muslim sentiments in the US to me. Sad.

[morningstar55]

ya know........Bill O Rilley ... he is a jerk..... and how dare he tell Joy to hush up and that she might learn something..... omg!!
the video clip is in the link below..


If anyone knows how to create water cooler moments on television, it’s the ladies of "The View" and FOX News' Bill O'Reilly. It's no surprise then that putting the two of them together on the same set caused some fireworks.

During a discussion about building a mosque at ground zero -- which O'Reilly is against -- Whoopi Goldberg asks the TV personality why he thinks it would be inappropriate. His response: "Because Muslims killed us on 9/11." This angers Goldberg, who lets an expletive fly out of her mouth before adding that it was religious extremists, and before getting up and walking off the set behind Joy Behar, who herself was angered by the comment.


Barbara Walters apologized for her colleagues' swift departure, which prompted O'Reilly to clarify things. "If anybody thought I was demeaning all Muslims," he said, "I apologize." Goldberg and Behar later returned and the discussion continued. Here's a clip of the entire incident:

http://social.entertainment.msn.com/...c760&GT1=28103

[Nat]

[katsarecool]

I saw the show. He pretty much disgusts me. And Barbara Walters (excuse the profanity) is an ass kisser from way back!!! And that was a lame apology, If I offended anyone... blah blah blah..

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by katsarecool

I saw the show. He pretty much disgusts me. And Barbara Walters (excuse the profanity) is an ass kisser from way back!!! And that was a lame apology, If I offended anyone... blah blah blah..

Very lame. He is such an arrogant ass. And part of a very dangerous group of Faux-News celebs that are bringing more hate to the US. What really pissed me off was the fact that nothing was said about the fact that there were two islamic prayer rooms in the Towers and had been there for many years. What is wrong with people?

[katsarecool]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Very lame. He is such an arrogant ass. And part of a very dangerous group of Faux-News celebs that are bringing more hate to the US. What really pissed me off was the fact that nothing was said about the fact that there were two islamic prayer rooms in the Towers and had been there for many years. What is wrong with people?

I wish I knew the answer to that. I hated the way he treated Joy like she is not intelligent. She is! And then wrapping his piggish arm around her shoulders as if to say "Calm down little lady and listen to what the big man is trying to teach you. " Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!