Updated way to administer CPR

[Selenay]

People who are untrained should not attempt full CPR. People who are trained in CPR often exert more than 125lbs of pressure, which can do far more harm than good.


Even in a best case scenario, in which the CPR performer is trained, the CPR success rate is only 10%.

You'd do much more good to call EMS if you are untrained, and if you do not have CPR certification, take a course so that you'll be more prepared in case of an emergency.

[LipstickLola]

Originally Posted by Selenay

People who are untrained should not attempt full CPR. People who are trained in CPR often exert more than 125lbs of pressure, which can do far more harm than good.


Even in a best case scenario, in which the CPR performer is trained, the CPR success rate is only 10%.

You'd do much more good to call EMS if you are untrained, and if you do not have CPR certification, take a course so that you'll be more prepared in case of an emergency.

With all due respect, a person can survive a few broken ribs a whole lot more than a 99% occluded artery, specifically if it's LAD. I break ribs in my job, the surgeon who steps in to relieve me breaks ribs, it happens, circulation, opening the artery first, repair broken ribs second. As far as other internal organ damage that can occur? it's secondary to the opening of these arteries to in fact 'stop' the heart attack. Chest compressions saves lives!!

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by LipstickLola

With all due respect, a person can survive a few broken ribs a whole lot more than a 99% occluded artery, specifically if it's LAD. I break ribs in my job, the surgeon who steps in to relieve me breaks ribs, it happens, circulation, opening the artery first, repair broken ribs second. As far as other internal organ damage that can occur? it's secondary to the opening of these arteries to in fact 'stop' the heart attack. Chest compressions saves lives!!

Of course broken ribs are preferable to dead people; I'm not saying it's not.

However, the facts are that CPR does not have a great success rate outside of a hospital, and that the success rate increases significantly when people are performing CORRECT CPR rather than what they've seen in the movies or on television, which is why I recommend wholeheartedly that people become CPR certified.

It is also important to note, y'all, that you can't kill someone by doing CPR incorrectly; if someone is in cardiac arrest, they're already dead, and CPR can only help. But this is a thread for discussing the benefits of a new style of CPR and, like it or not, the reality is that CPR, more often than not, does not work and people need to be cognizant of that and take all measures to save people the best way they can--which in many cases is to call paramedics in addition to CPR.

Chest compressions saves lives, but so do education and information.

[theoddz]

I'm another health care provider (Respiratory Therapist) who has participated in more CPR/ACLS events than I care to even think about. Speaking from my own experiences and training, I can say that Selly is right in saying that most CPRs and ACLS events are *not* successful, even in the hospital environments, if we are speaking about "meaningful" recoveries. Outside of the hospital environment, however, a person does have a better chance at some level of survival if chest compressions, in particular, are administered right away. Outside of the hospital, most of the poor/bad outcomes are due to the patient not receiving chest compressions/circulatory rescue in a timely manner. All it takes is 6 minutes without oxgen to the brain before irreversable brain damage....then death, occurs.

Here in Las Vegas, as well as in other places, almost all, if not all, of the casinos now have AED's (Automatic Electronic Defibrillators) publicly accessible. These are really easy for really anyone to use and the units literally walk a rescuer and layperson through the process of resuscitation. If you're out in the middle of nowhere, however, and this sort of thing isn't available, it's important that chest compressions, in particular, are administered right away!! The "old style" used to think that rescue breaths were just as important as chest compressions, but the new training has been putting much more emphasis on chest compressions, as there is usually enough oxygen in the lungs during an arrest to provide immediate sufficient oxygenation, if compressions are started right away. Effective chest compression is defined by depressing the sternum by 2 inches with the heel of the hand. And yes, in many, many cases, especially with frail and/or elderly people, ribs are usually fractured during this process. A CPR/ACLS event is NOT a "pretty" sight, as the patient usually loses his/her bladder and/or bowels and there can be a LOT of vomiting involved. This is why I carry a pocket mask in my truck at all times.

I want to also encourage everyone to take a simple CPR class. You never really know when you'll need it, or a loved one's or a stranger's life will depend on it. It's easy and I think it may be free if you call the American Heart Association and ask about a simple layperson's class.

This is a good thread!!!!

~Theo~

[Ryobi]

With all due respect.

I agree a hospital is an extreme example of success in using CPR. Even a Pro rescuer doesn't have the option of opening the chest.

I don't agree that you can't harm a person doing CPR. Yes, better than dead but, you can still cause harm.

As a Pro rescuer and CPR instructor, I found it interesting when the change was made for a choking person falls unconscious. Now, we teach chest compressions to clear the airway. Most likely, no cardiac arrest there. Do it wrong and puncture a lung because of choking, now you have bigger problems.

I have some concerns with starting with chest compressions.
1.) why am I doing them? If the person has a pulse, and is breathing, compressions aren't needed. If I start with compressions, I don't know the other two.
2.) if there is no initial assessment during the A. and B. portion, what if the person has a pacemaker or other devise. Yeah, you can hurt someone.
3.) heart attack is a typical cause for cardiac arrest. not the only cause.

I agree, doing something is better than doing nothing. I agree people should get training in the skills. And I agree, because I know first hand, CPR doesn't always work.

[Ryobi]

AED= automated electronic device.

Theo, I'm only putting this in here because you said automatic. Automatic gives the impression you don't have to do anything. It's confusing for some that are first learning to use them.

[Tommi]

Thanks Everyone. You may save a life.

[princessbelle]

Great thread!!!! Another health care provider here. Have done a lot of CPR. It doesn't always work...true...the key is making sure there is or isn't a pulse. Don't forget to check. If there isn't a pulse....DO IT. A stopped heart beat is about as harmful as it gets.

Breaking ribs? gosh yes it happens. Don't worry. Just do it. In the malls and many public places they have AED devices....simple to use. Keep a watchful eye when you roam around and you can spot them. They are simple to use...tells you everything to do.

Saving a life is what CPR is about. If you don't act...you can't help save.

The red cross offers hundreds of classes at church, schools, employment places...everywhere.

Learn CPR...save a life!!!!!!!

[atomiczombie]

I should go back and get re-certified.

[iamkeri1]

Selenay,
Thank you so much for arguing for the broader view. Of course, of course, of course, call for paramedics (dial 911.)

Also try to prepare yourself emotionally that even though you are trying like hell to preserve a persons life, it may not "work." When hubby died we did CPR and mouth to mouth on him till help arrived, but he still did not survive. A sad and awful day, perhaps made worse by the fact that we tried to help him but (as we viewed it at the time) failed. It's hard emotionally to intervene in someone's life or death struggle.
Smooches,
Keri

Originally Posted by Selenay

Of course broken ribs are preferable to dead people; I'm not saying it's not.

However, the facts are that CPR does not have a great success rate outside of a hospital, and that the success rate increases significantly when people are performing CORRECT CPR rather than what they've seen in the movies or on television, which is why I recommend wholeheartedly that people become CPR certified.

It is also important to note, y'all, that you can't kill someone by doing CPR incorrectly; if someone is in cardiac arrest, they're already dead, and CPR can only help. But this is a thread for discussing the benefits of a new style of CPR and, like it or not, the reality is that CPR, more often than not, does not work and people need to be cognizant of that and take all measures to save people the best way they can--which in many cases is to call paramedics in addition to CPR.

Chest compressions saves lives, but so do education and information.

[iamkeri1]

Here is more info. Many medical sources now recommend "hands only" CPR Let's face it folks, lots of people hesitate to do CPR because they do not want to put their mouths on on an unknown person, especially one who might be sick. Use this link to view a video demonstrating "hands only" CPR.


http://handsonlycpr.org/

[iamkeri1]

Here is a link to instructions in several types of CPR including how to do CPR on your pets.

http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/

[Linus]

For those that want to take CPR courses you can take them with:

in Canada:

St. John's Ambulance: http://www.sja.ca/Pages/default.aspx
Canadian Red Cross: http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=8328&tid=068

In the USA:

Red Cross: http://www.redcross.org/services/hss/courses/aed.html
Heart & Stroke Foundation (apparently -- website isn't loading however).

Getting instructions now is a good start but for longer term, you should take a full course on it and re-certify regularly. Could mean saving someone's life. And that would make it worth it.

[LipstickLola]

Originally Posted by iamkeri1

Here is more info. Many medical sources now recommend "hands only" CPR Let's face it folks, lots of people hesitate to do CPR because they do not want to put their mouths on on an unknown person, especially one who might be sick. Use this link to view a video demonstrating "hands only" CPR.


http://handsonlycpr.org/

EXACTLY!

The AHA realizes that people hesitate, hands on CPR for circulation is best, and here is WHY, you do not know who is around the corner, behind your back, or just in the next booth. Get your hands on that persons chest to get the blood circulating. That's a helluva lot better than standing around on your cell phone watching someone turn blue and gasp, yes?

Addendum.....not all persons in arrest are considered non-viable. I see it day in and day out.