The Re-Definition of the Modern Butch

[Jett]

Thanks Atomic and Mel

I'm reminded of an important point about the our labels.

While we label ourselves, others, and catagorize people by their labels... we seem to forget that it's all so very relative to the individual, location, culture etc. as to what that label or term means. Perhaps this is part of where we get tripped up in publically applying our definitions to others labels.

I don't think that's possible to do that with any accuracy, not without having anothers definition of what they mean by "X" explained to us. Yet we do it over and over again. It creates the illusion of universal experience of the label/identity which obviously isn't possible.

This I think speaks to the true diversity of butches and to the similarities we sometimes over look simply due to different interpretations of the labels.

ETA: This isn't perfectly on topic no but I think if we realized we don't necessarily know what A, B or C means to someone we'd start listening to them more than we talk about them.

[Jett]

did I mention the hair thing?

I did not, it's a major annoyance of the butch "myths" for me because I found I do like to alternately grow out my locks to a shaggy mess now and again.

See... now I feel like I have to add that "not long though" statement due to the ingrained stereotype. I know better but admittedly still have those inner cringes on some issues... the twinge of "I need to qualify that statement"... yuck.

Its those irritating inner cringes and examination of them that partially inspired this thread. They don't stop me from proudly being who ever the hell I wanna be but they do make me go "hey, why'd I flinch there?".

[Galahad]

I wake up from dreams in which what I was doing, wearing, acting was somehow not butch enough. My dream self usually has the good sense to remember that who I am and how I feel about myself is all that counts, not some ones imaginary ideal of butch. How do you draw butch? It’s not the trappings, it’s the heart. I’m still working on this idea. Drawing the inner butch.

What I understand you asking about first of all. The separation and judgment of different ids. I don’t have a sense of them against us. I’ve tried out at times in my life different ids in the effort to find or understand myself. It may have given me more of the feeling of being part of the whole. No matter how different I am from others, I feel closely related in some way. Like having family members who have bad days, or who just don’t like me at all, we are all just humans trying to make sense of life and live it fully.

[Dragonfly]

I woke up still thinking of this thread and wanted to add a femme stereotyped viewpoint here. I have never felt like I fit in as "one of the girls". Nails and hair and girl talk are very cute to be included on.... but I dont enjoy it like they do. I am perving and admiring them ... and that is an invasion of some sorts. PJ parties and pillow fights dont include the boy who likes you...

And it is the same deal for me out with the butch stereotypes. I am into cars and camping and things stereotyped butch .... but when I am sitting there "with the guy talk" I am still a freaking perv!!! They dont swap the same conversations with the femmes around you know.... unless someone wants slapped for being too crude.... All Stereotypes I know BUT....

These stereotyped activities that associate with bonding and hanging out are similar to how the hetero couples do dinner parties... men with cigars and politics drinking scotch in the den... and the women with the cupcakes and gossip in the kitchen. Where the heck do I belong? I never really did so... apply this to the butch femme dynamic that is STEREOTYPED and well you see my old confusion right?

I know femmes rock the power tools, smoke cigars and talk politics. I know butches who hug and support and bake cupcakes. I know PEOPLE who are a variety of mixes of social activities and that none are GENDERED in our world...

I am just somewhere between here and there of figuring out ME and why I feel I found "home" amidst specifically a Butch/Femme associated community. Its about More than the confusion that led me to find y'all when I met the butch woman I fell in love with....( I thought butch dont go with butch then and was out of sorts with it but felt how I felt for her so I went searching and found community...) It's about even More then the Label given to me... More than the butch or femme dynamic itself because I feel a lil kindred to the gay boy as well as to the FTM's and MTF's. Every person representing their own unique gender and orientation combinations is CONFIRMING to me that I am ok to be me and theres not a dang thing wrong with any of us. Yes I am still a baby taking baby steps.... but who better than to take them with huh?

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

did I mention the hair thing?
I did not, it's a major annoyance of the butch "myths" for me because I found I do like to alternately grow out my locks to a shaggy mess now and again.

Ditto. It's this sort of thing (which also applies to femme appearance) that sometimes makes me think that for many people, the whole butch/femme thing is just a matter of physical preferences. Butches have not only short hair, but really short hair. They don't wear makeup, heels, feminine clothes. Really? I'd say that if 'butch' is truly an essential part of one's very being, than hair, clothes, and etc. are irrelevant to the core. The fact that so much emphasis is placed on presentation (again, also for femmes) makes it seem more like a fetish than an attraction to an actual live complex human being.