Living in the land of Dixie and proud of it!

NotAnAverageGuy · 12-20-2009, 04:43 PM

We understand the hater stance and we understand the stance behind why some folks stand behind the flag.

We have our reasons for why we do stuff, we defend it because our ancestors fought in the civil war and all that it stands for even the negative aspects. Most of us come from a long line of slave owners, some of us are members of certain organizations that y'all find nasty, etc. But this is MY life and MY friends, we will defend what we feel is right, just as you have the right to fight against it.

Noone will ever agree to things and that is fine with me I have no quams, but I will stand behind the rebel flag till I die.

weatherboi · 12-20-2009, 04:46 PM

I enjoy alot of the things you say but I am not surprised at your view. Goodluck with that to you and your friends.

NotAnAverageGuy · 12-20-2009, 04:47 PM

Yup no problem.

Dude · 12-21-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

We understand the hater stance and we understand the stance behind why some folks stand behind the flag.

We have our reasons for why we do stuff, we defend it because our ancestors fought in the civil war and all that it stands for even the negative aspects.

Most of us come from a long line of slave owners, some of us are members of certain organizations that y'all find nasty, etc.

But this is MY life and MY friends, we will defend what we feel is right, just as you have the right to fight against it.

Noone will ever agree to things and that is fine with me I have no quams, but I will stand behind the rebel flag till I die.

Your reasons would be what exactly?
Even the negative aspects to me means you are all about white power.

You say slave owners with such an ease it feels to me like your proud of that.

What are you defending that feels sooo right?
The right to fly your flag in your bedroom?
To feel proud of your white roots?

Why not hang it in the back window of your pickup or front window of your apt. if
your so proud of your stance?
Have you lost any friends or dates after they saw your symbol of hate?

Would you really die for what your flag represents to a
black person?

daisygrrl · 12-21-2009, 08:36 AM

I’ve been watching this thread with a lot of interest, and there’s been a lot of ‘thangs to chew on’ :-)

I want to get this out of the way: As for the ‘rebel flag,’ it does make me uneasy to see it actively embraced when it is used to represent hatred and human exploitation. Recently, when I was traveling across the South, I saw a huge Confederate flag at a local business; I honestly did not feel safe in stopping there alone (and with a rainbow-oriented tattoo on my wrist). That’s just how I feel.

Born in Alabama, and transplanted to Florida, I’ve lived in the 'deep' South most of my life. And, I’ve finally gotten to the place where I do embrace being a Southerner—for the reasons that several posters (Christie, Wicket, Write) have mentioned. I love (and try to embody) some of the good stuff: the hospitality, the accent (when it suits my purposes--it's a-m-az-ing what a southern drawl can getcha sometimes), opening doors for others, the home-cookin’, and even the silly lil way we banter together [an example is you-tubed below].

I feel at home in the South and I would prefer to live here; I simply adore the charms of Southern ladies and butches (nodoubtaboutit). That being said, I know there is hatred and blatant ignorance still thriving here; but, this is not regulated to one region or type of person.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zno0xeap0hU"]YouTube- Steel Magnolias "He is a boil on the butt of humanity!"[/ame]

Unndunn · 12-21-2009, 01:47 AM

I have lived my entire life in Connecticut and am a proud New Englander. But I have to say that I have loved the people I've met in the South. When we were young we used to pile into the station wagon and head south to visit our grandma in Florida. Even as kids we noticed that people are much more open and friendly in the southern states. The food is better too!

We have plenty of people up here who would be called rednecks if they lived elsewhere. There are a lot of politically correct types here and I find that most people don't say how they really feel about things. I don't think that's good. It might look nice on the surface but there's still plenty of racism and intolerance here too, it's just that most of it is hidden.

My point? I've always liked Southerners and think that they have the right idea about a lot of things in life, so keep doing your thing, Dixieland!

Plus they don't have two feet of snow in their yards right now (I hope)

WILDCAT · 12-21-2009, 04:32 AM

I believe we have a deep heartfelt connection from where we are from, regionally. Most of us!

The "SOUTH" is beautiful is so many ways. To deny the racist history behind it and ongoing hateful sentiments are a problem though, IMHO. (Think Katrina and the government's lack of response - again, just MY OPINION here.)

I love the southern accents, the wonderful food, mixed cultures, actually a great deal of the history and if I was from there I would want to be proud of my heritage - just as I am from being raised here in the north.
__

When I moved (years back) to Houston from PA, I was stuck in a traffic jam with my partner then... and across the radio came this DJ saying "All of the GOD DAMN YANKEES here are screwing things up and we should do something about it"! I still had PA plates on. We had moved there during the job crunch back here in the north, and it was BOOMING there in that area at that time - for expansion.

Although, the "illegal" immigrants were being hired the most for construction and the new influx/building of the city jobs - as they could be hired for under minimum wage - and off the books. And "no insurance" coverage...

Anyway, my lover and I slowly looked the the left and then to the right in our car - to see if "maybe" anyone happened to be on the same radio station and see our plates. Let me tell you, I will never forget that. (Now please this isn't about "Texas", only one experience of southern FEAR and bigotry.) My one friend was beat up too, being pulled over by the police - as she had queer women's bumper stickers on her truck.

And I was politically active then, when I went there - meeting up with folks who had moved there from New York. We demonstrated against the KKK affiliated police who had gone into a housing project and beat up Eleanore Bumpers - just a sweet elderly woman, minding her own, but was used as a message by the KKK! (I think I have the name right here, this was back in the very early '80's.)

And then HERE... in my area. There are a "couple" of young guys (primarily young - maybe a few older guys) who have a confederate flag in the back of their big trucks - who really don't understand what it means. (They think it is about guns and the wild west and stuff like that.) However, they also happen to be racist in attitude, against queers, Jews, etc... anyone, but white straight males.

Also, folks are called "redneck" here too. It is not just a southern expression. I don't think that is fair that that expression is derived from the south and their "history".

Now, having said THAT... folks around here are clearly uncomfortable with that flag otherwise. But, I am uncomfortable with the American flag - for I do feel the Native Indians were here first. So, yes... when I go to the post office for stamps - I say, "anything but the flag". That is not that I don't love this country, that I don't support the folks fighting for us in other counties (in the military), etc... That is JUST "my expression" through a simple choice.

But, if you are from the south, I believe you should be proud. I don't believe you should feel shame and guilt for what happened before us. I don't with the Native Indians and African Americans here (I did when I was younger and first learned about this all, that our history books were NOT quite "accurate" about) - but, I DO feel terrible that white folks DID these atrocities to other living human beings and I feel a certain responsibility and obligation, even IF only to stand up against such symbols used in the most inappropriate ways. (Meaning fear inducing and such - to "keep folks in their place", such as the misuse of that flag.) Pride? IF you are standing behind a horrible part of history with your beliefs? That is not the good side of the south to be proud of, IMHO.

This is kind of rambly... I want to state that I wouldn't come into this thread and post, "me and by friends are in groups that you all wouldn't be too happy about". How do you think that makes ANY person, NOT into "what you are possibly inferring" here, (that you would state that you canNOT even write about it) feel regarding "safety" in being part of this community then?

If one is talking KKK or Neo-Nazi/skinheads... remember they HATE all of us, queers included.

Really. Just think about it. Please. Thank you.

WILDCAT

christie · 12-21-2009, 05:24 AM

I don't think any evolved Southerner disputes that racism is alive and well - and as others have pointed out, its not indigenous to the South. Perhaps the issue is that Southern folks tend to speak their minds and wear their "isms" as a badge of honor.

My family, while not officially affiliated with any of the groups who think that 400tc sheets are better costumes than bed linens, is racist. Its not just against African Americans, but against anyone who isn't Caucasian, Baptist, Heterosexual, and Conservative. Imagine their dismay when I use the outspokenness taught at their knee and my very existence forces them to be silent about the "queers, fags, dykes (insert any other derogatory term here)."

My brotherinlaw (Jess's brother) proudly displays his confederate flag and it IS his symbol of racism and oppression. I thought that for Christmas we might give him a rainbow flag to run up along side of it... LOL

I don't think that the use of "illegal" aliens in the workforce is a Southern issue. I am sure the practice is a national issue...

Back to the all good things Southern... food... now there is something to celebrate! Nothing better than a slab of Memphis-style dry ribs washed down with the "house wine of the south"... iced tea so sweet its like instant diabetes! Kentucky bourbon... don't even get me started on my ongoing affair with Jim Beam backed by Sundrop soda

(If you aren't familiar with Sundrop, lemme know and I will be glad to educate you!)

Southern women... my oh my... who else but Dixie Carter as Julia Sugarbaker could tell you that you are the most ignorant fucktard on the face of the planet in that melodic southern drawl while dressed in a lovely powersuit and make you LIKE it??!?!?!?

Anyone who knows me in real life, knows that I have that drawl and it seems to disguise the sharp tongue and makes the everpresent sarcasm more palatable... I like to think of it as camouflage.

I'm sure that there are many things that are associated Southern that we should not be proud of... but like with everything else, I don't get to pick only the parts that I like... being Southern, to me, means that I take the good and the bad and try to live my truth. Southern is just another descriptor to me... and one I wear proudly.

Christie

Legendryder · 12-21-2009, 05:35 AM

You know, it is very funny to me. I live and have lived in Georgia for nearly 25 years, have been a very out gay person, and have never once had anyone give me any problems about it. Matter of fact, the only time I have ever been given a problem was up in Ohio. Most of my friends are straight, biker types. I don't know if that is the difference or not.

My sister lives in San Fran, and everytime I go out there, her friends do anything they can to get me to talk. Guess they like the accent or something. I find the people around here have a great sense of humor about the perception others have of Southerners. I am looking for a t-shirt to send my sister. I live not too far from where the movie Deliverance was filmed. There is a t-shirt that says "Paddle faster, I hear banjo music!" I really need to find that one to send her. rofl

WILDCAT · 12-21-2009, 05:55 AM

No, I wasn't intending to imply that hiring illegal immigrants was a "southern" thing. Not at all.

I was simply stating why I went to Texas then, and had difficulty finding work. I believe the immigrants were used in the worst kind of way at that time - there. Then. My experience.

This same practice is going on in the north too, right now...

(Texas is a major Mexican boarder state of course. It was "win/win" for the condo and complex contruction corporations/businesses during that time.)

Yep, there are bigots everywhere. Ohio included. PA for sure. And on and on... it sadly goes. Regarding the flag and southern pride (?) Please, continue on.

And I'll bow out here...

PEACE

Legendryder · 12-21-2009, 06:05 AM

Personally, I could care less if someone wants to fly that darned rag (er, flag), to me it just gives everyone a warning that a dumbass lives here. All they get from me is an eyeroll.

As far as living in the south? I live here cause I love it. Some on the best areas in the country to ride motorcycles. It fits me right down to the ground. Low speed, high drag.

NotAnAverageGuy · 12-21-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

Your reasons would be what exactly?
Even the negative aspects to me means you are all about white power.

my reasons are my own, I said it shows my pride of my heritage

You say slave owners with such an ease it feels to me like your proud of that.

What are you defending that feels sooo right?
The right to fly your flag in your bedroom?
To feel proud of your white roots?

Yes and yes
Why not hang it in the back window of your pickup or front window of your apt. if
your so proud of your stance?

At my apartment complex we are not allowed to fly any flags, it is stated in our lease agreement, the only place that can fly the american flag is the complex office.

Have you lost any friends or dates after they saw your symbol of hate?

no I have not

Would you really die for what your flag represents to a
black person?

Yes I would

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

I'm curious, what organizations are you a member of?

I am confederate states of america member, its a small group of my friends who get together to discuss things and beliefs. It does no harm to anyone because we do not take it outside of our own homes.

hottprof · 12-21-2009, 11:07 AM

*Disclaimer there maybe use of era related terminology in the attached links if this offends you my apologies. However, if you pick up any history book about the American Civil War you will read the “politically incorrect” rhetoric of the day. *

*I do not typically post in controversial threads because my words I feel are better spoken on topics I may or may not agree with. But it has come to my attention through my friends here on this site that my words are needed in something that is not all “fun and fluff.” *

Oh wow, where do I start (this thread is a bummer and has unnecessary dramatics)... though I do have to say as a historian I am really appalled by the so called teachings of American students, being the product of the public school systems hell even I am not happy with all of my education but that is neither here nor there. I wish personally that people would first think about what they are saying and how they say it instead of just speaking out of pure hatred and anger towards another human being regardless of their beliefs. Just because someone does not agree with you doesn’t mean that pressing your opinion of the matter on them will get them to change their minds. It is hard to change 200+ years of personal and familial history with one post.

The battle flag of northern Virginia vs the confederate flag:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/battleflag.htm
http://www.civilwarhome.com/confederateflags.htm
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CLASS/AM...att/intro.html

since this is a web thread I will all assume if you want to learn you will read and learn if not that’s cool too I am just trying to clarify this is a learning experience for all of us.

It is easy to use any kind of symbol to define your belief system. The cross is something some Christians use to define their belief. The pentagram is a symbol of belief for some pagans. The American flag is something to define the beliefs of a nation. The rainbow pride flag is the belief that no matter with color, creed, nationality or sexual desire your belief in it gives you hope. The swastika was something the Nazis used to define their belief. A Starbucks cup is defined as the belief that coffee will make your day right. An African American fist in the air is defined as a Black Panther movement. Two fingers in the air making a “V,” defines the belief in peace.

Symbols became that way for a reason. Someone somewhere believed in them. So take your own beliefs and learn from others. It doesn’t matter what color or creed you come from just know that WE are a community here and need to embrace others opinions. We do not have to enjoy them or even like them but we should open our minds to them…

Besides I thought this was a thread about being a proud southerner… and where and how I am going to have my first real southern cooked food (sure stereo typical but the south to me means AMAZING FOOD, warm hospitality and a slowed down pace of living.) I still have not had homemade grits, collard greens with bacon, fried chicken with biscuts and gravy with a side of mac and cheese.

Smiles

*just my dollars worth hate me if you want*

peace

NotAnAverageGuy · 12-21-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hottprof

*Disclaimer there maybe use of era related terminology in the attached links if this offends you my apologies. However, if you pick up any history book about the American Civil War you will read the “politically incorrect” rhetoric of the day. *

*I do not typically post in controversial threads because my words I feel are better spoken on topics I may or may not agree with. But it has come to my attention through my friends here on this site that my words are needed in something that is not all “fun and fluff.” *

Oh wow, where do I start (this thread is a bummer and has unnecessary dramatics)... though I do have to say as a historian I am really appalled by the so called teachings of American students, being the product of the public school systems hell even I am not happy with all of my education but that is neither here nor there. I wish personally that people would first think about what they are saying and how they say it instead of just speaking out of pure hatred and anger towards another human being regardless of their beliefs. Just because someone does not agree with you doesn’t mean that pressing your opinion of the matter on them will get them to change their minds. It is hard to change 200+ years of personal and familial history with one post.

The battle flag of northern Virginia vs the confederate flag:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/battleflag.htm
http://www.civilwarhome.com/confederateflags.htm
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CLASS/AM...att/intro.html

since this is a web thread I will all assume if you want to learn you will read and learn if not that’s cool too I am just trying to clarify this is a learning experience for all of us.

It is easy to use any kind of symbol to define your belief system. The cross is something some Christians use to define their belief. The pentagram is a symbol of belief for some pagans. The American flag is something to define the beliefs of a nation. The rainbow pride flag is the belief that no matter with color, creed, nationality or sexual desire your belief in it gives you hope. The swastika was something the Nazis used to define their belief. A Starbucks cup is defined as the belief that coffee will make your day right. An African American fist in the air is defined as a Black Panther movement. Two fingers in the air making a “V,” defines the belief in peace.

Symbols became that way for a reason. Someone somewhere believed in them. So take your own beliefs and learn from others. It doesn’t matter what color or creed you come from just know that WE are a community here and need to embrace others opinions. We do not have to enjoy them or even like them but we should open our minds to them…

Besides I thought this was a thread about being a proud southerner… and where and how I am going to have my first real southern cooked food (sure stereo typical but the south to me means AMAZING FOOD, warm hospitality and a slowed down pace of living.) I still have not had homemade grits, collard greens with bacon, fried chicken with biscuts and gravy with a side of mac and cheese.

Smiles

*just my dollars worth hate me if you want*

peace

If you visit the south, a recommendation from me to you:

http://www.ladyandsons.com/

Paula Deen's restaurant

christie · 12-21-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hottprof

*

Besides I thought this was a thread about being a proud southerner… and where and how I am going to have my first real southern cooked food (sure stereo typical but the south to me means AMAZING FOOD, warm hospitality and a slowed down pace of living.) I still have not had homemade grits, collard greens with bacon, fried chicken with biscuts and gravy with a side of mac and cheese.

No need to go all the way to SC to see Paula... stop in VA and you'll have one of Richmond's top three chef's cooking for you... yep, that's my Jess!!

You know our door is always open... you might have to share a bed with the two rotten mini schnauzers or a couple of demon cats, but come the morning, there is NOTHING better than the sausage gravy...

Jess · 12-21-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie0918

No need to go all the way to SC to see Paula... stop in VA and you'll have one of Richmond's top three chef's cooking for you... yep, that's my Jess!!

You know our door is always open... you might have to share a bed with the two rotten mini schnauzers or a couple of demon cats, but come the morning, there is NOTHING better than the sausage gravy...

Lord yes, we love some gravy! One day I will convince her to have grits the proper way.. without sugar!!! LOL!

I know, I know.. the only civil(ized) war that goes on around here is Savory grits VS dessert grits. I usually defer to Barney...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de_P2aUZJyA"]YouTube- Barney Fife - Nip It[/ame]

NotAnAverageGuy · 12-21-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess

Lord yes, we love some gravy! One day I will convince her to have grits the proper way.. without sugar!!! LOL!

I know, I know.. the only civil(ized) war that goes on around here is Savory grits VS dessert grits. I usually defer to Barney...

YouTube- Barney Fife - Nip It

what about grits with butter or grits with fruit?

christie · 12-21-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess

Lord yes, we love some gravy! One day I will convince her to have grits the proper way.. without sugar!!! LOL!

I know, I know.. the only civil(ized) war that goes on around here is Savory grits VS dessert grits. I usually defer to Barney...

YouTube- Barney Fife - Nip It

Dear gawd... Hy has figured out youtubes... ya'll may regret this...

That being said... leave my grits ALONE... grits with butter and sugar are like ice cream to me...

Not that I eat them anymore... but if I do... they will be loaded with all things diabetes and heart disease...

Jess · 12-21-2009, 09:23 PM

Huge fan of the grits! My yankee dad ( native new yawker) would poo poo the grit yet he would nosh on scrapple for chris'sake!

I prefer stone ground ( coarse, slow cooking) grits cooked with butter, chicken stock, heavy cream a smidge of roasted garlic and a heaping helping of grated cheese. Serve it up as a side dish for shrimp or a cajun spiced ribeye or for breakfast with grilled andouille and carmelized onions. Leftover grits can be turned into a torte of sorts ( or grit cake) by mixing a custard into it and adding chopped country ham ( or other fav salty meat!) and baking to "set". Great for slicing and grilling or serving as a "bottom" for canapes or makes a great treat with a salad for a lighter lunch.

I can be as passionate about all things southern. The food is just one of the many things that endear me to this part of the country!

Y'all come back now, ya hear?!?!

Write14u · 12-22-2009, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie0918

No need to go all the way to SC to see Paula... stop in VA and you'll have one of Richmond's top three chef's cooking for you... yep, that's my Jess!!

You know our door is always open... you might have to share a bed with the two rotten mini schnauzers or a couple of demon cats, but come the morning, there is NOTHING better than the sausage gravy...

Well, I'm definitely in the bottom three of anywhere's cooking (unless we're talking grilling), but come on down and I'll take you over to momma's. In the South, now that's sacred. *grin*

12-21-2009, 08:36 AM	#5
daisygrrl Member How Do You Identify?: mouthy but adorable; kinky Gerbera Preferred Pronoun?: hey, cutie (or dudette) Relationship Status: xoxo Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The South (Gooogia peach) Posts: 475 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 525 Times in 223 Posts Rep Power: 1065210	I’ve been watching this thread with a lot of interest, and there’s been a lot of ‘thangs to chew on’ :-) I want to get this out of the way: As for the ‘rebel flag,’ it does make me uneasy to see it actively embraced when it is used to represent hatred and human exploitation. Recently, when I was traveling across the South, I saw a huge Confederate flag at a local business; I honestly did not feel safe in stopping there alone (and with a rainbow-oriented tattoo on my wrist). That’s just how I feel. Born in Alabama, and transplanted to Florida, I’ve lived in the 'deep' South most of my life. And, I’ve finally gotten to the place where I do embrace being a Southerner—for the reasons that several posters (Christie, Wicket, Write) have mentioned. I love (and try to embody) some of the good stuff: the hospitality, the accent (when it suits my purposes--it's a-m-az-ing what a southern drawl can getcha sometimes), opening doors for others, the home-cookin’, and even the silly lil way we banter together [an example is you-tubed below]. I feel at home in the South and I would prefer to live here; I simply adore the charms of Southern ladies and butches (nodoubtaboutit). That being said, I know there is hatred and blatant ignorance still thriving here; but, this is not regulated to one region or type of person. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zno0xeap0hU"]YouTube- Steel Magnolias "He is a boil on the butt of humanity!"[/ame] __________________ You can’t change that system by just getting your own rights, tinkering with the engine and leaving. You have to take on the whole machine. --Riki Anne Wilchins Hold on to the lessons, let go of the pain. --Leslie Feinberg

12-21-2009, 01:47 AM	#6
Unndunn Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: doesn't matter to me Relationship Status: single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 122 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 149 Thanked 166 Times in 48 Posts Rep Power: 676964	an outsider's observation I have lived my entire life in Connecticut and am a proud New Englander. But I have to say that I have loved the people I've met in the South. When we were young we used to pile into the station wagon and head south to visit our grandma in Florida. Even as kids we noticed that people are much more open and friendly in the southern states. The food is better too! We have plenty of people up here who would be called rednecks if they lived elsewhere. There are a lot of politically correct types here and I find that most people don't say how they really feel about things. I don't think that's good. It might look nice on the surface but there's still plenty of racism and intolerance here too, it's just that most of it is hidden. My point? I've always liked Southerners and think that they have the right idea about a lot of things in life, so keep doing your thing, Dixieland! Plus they don't have two feet of snow in their yards right now (I hope)

12-21-2009, 04:32 AM	#7
WILDCAT Member How Do You Identify?: Very PROUD BUTCH LESBIAN! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: PA Posts: 679 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 796 Thanked 551 Times in 238 Posts Rep Power: 761791	Wow - I believe we have a deep heartfelt connection from where we are from, regionally. Most of us! The "SOUTH" is beautiful is so many ways. To deny the racist history behind it and ongoing hateful sentiments are a problem though, IMHO. (Think Katrina and the government's lack of response - again, just MY OPINION here.) I love the southern accents, the wonderful food, mixed cultures, actually a great deal of the history and if I was from there I would want to be proud of my heritage - just as I am from being raised here in the north. __ When I moved (years back) to Houston from PA, I was stuck in a traffic jam with my partner then... and across the radio came this DJ saying "All of the GOD DAMN YANKEES here are screwing things up and we should do something about it"! I still had PA plates on. We had moved there during the job crunch back here in the north, and it was BOOMING there in that area at that time - for expansion. Although, the "illegal" immigrants were being hired the most for construction and the new influx/building of the city jobs - as they could be hired for under minimum wage - and off the books. And "no insurance" coverage... Anyway, my lover and I slowly looked the the left and then to the right in our car - to see if "maybe" anyone happened to be on the same radio station and see our plates. Let me tell you, I will never forget that. (Now please this isn't about "Texas", only one experience of southern FEAR and bigotry.) My one friend was beat up too, being pulled over by the police - as she had queer women's bumper stickers on her truck. And I was politically active then, when I went there - meeting up with folks who had moved there from New York. We demonstrated against the KKK affiliated police who had gone into a housing project and beat up Eleanore Bumpers - just a sweet elderly woman, minding her own, but was used as a message by the KKK! (I think I have the name right here, this was back in the very early '80's.) And then HERE... in my area. There are a "couple" of young guys (primarily young - maybe a few older guys) who have a confederate flag in the back of their big trucks - who really don't understand what it means. (They think it is about guns and the wild west and stuff like that.) However, they also happen to be racist in attitude, against queers, Jews, etc... anyone, but white straight males. Also, folks are called "redneck" here too. It is not just a southern expression. I don't think that is fair that that expression is derived from the south and their "history". Now, having said THAT... folks around here are clearly uncomfortable with that flag otherwise. But, I am uncomfortable with the American flag - for I do feel the Native Indians were here first. So, yes... when I go to the post office for stamps - I say, "anything but the flag". That is not that I don't love this country, that I don't support the folks fighting for us in other counties (in the military), etc... That is JUST "my expression" through a simple choice. But, if you are from the south, I believe you should be proud. I don't believe you should feel shame and guilt for what happened before us. I don't with the Native Indians and African Americans here (I did when I was younger and first learned about this all, that our history books were NOT quite "accurate" about) - but, I DO feel terrible that white folks DID these atrocities to other living human beings and I feel a certain responsibility and obligation, even IF only to stand up against such symbols used in the most inappropriate ways. (Meaning fear inducing and such - to "keep folks in their place", such as the misuse of that flag.) Pride? IF you are standing behind a horrible part of history with your beliefs? That is not the good side of the south to be proud of, IMHO. This is kind of rambly... I want to state that I wouldn't come into this thread and post, "me and by friends are in groups that you all wouldn't be too happy about". How do you think that makes ANY person, NOT into "what you are possibly inferring" here, (that you would state that you canNOT even write about it) feel regarding "safety" in being part of this community then? If one is talking KKK or Neo-Nazi/skinheads... remember they HATE all of us, queers included. Really. Just think about it. Please. Thank you. WILDCAT

12-20-2009, 04:43 PM	#1
NotAnAverageGuy Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Trans Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,723 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 109 Thanked 282 Times in 178 Posts Rep Power: 0	We understand the hater stance and we understand the stance behind why some folks stand behind the flag. We have our reasons for why we do stuff, we defend it because our ancestors fought in the civil war and all that it stands for even the negative aspects. Most of us come from a long line of slave owners, some of us are members of certain organizations that y'all find nasty, etc. But this is MY life and MY friends, we will defend what we feel is right, just as you have the right to fight against it. Noone will ever agree to things and that is fine with me I have no quams, but I will stand behind the rebel flag till I die.

12-20-2009, 04:46 PM	#2
weatherboi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Owned boy Preferred Pronoun?: Hey boy!!! Relationship Status: counting freckles slowly under Her direction!!! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: i have 2 sets of geographic coordinates!!! Posts: 6,097 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 26,797 Thanked 12,549 Times in 2,993 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	I enjoy alot of the things you say but I am not surprised at your view. Goodluck with that to you and your friends.

12-20-2009, 04:47 PM	#3
NotAnAverageGuy Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Trans Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,723 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 109 Thanked 282 Times in 178 Posts Rep Power: 0	Yup no problem.

12-21-2009, 05:24 AM	#8
christie Member How Do You Identify?: A Force with which to be reckoned Preferred Pronoun?: just be nice... Relationship Status: I call her Mine Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Transplanted to the PNW Posts: 1,246 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,552 Thanked 2,476 Times in 706 Posts Rep Power: 14753262	I don't think any evolved Southerner disputes that racism is alive and well - and as others have pointed out, its not indigenous to the South. Perhaps the issue is that Southern folks tend to speak their minds and wear their "isms" as a badge of honor. My family, while not officially affiliated with any of the groups who think that 400tc sheets are better costumes than bed linens, is racist. Its not just against African Americans, but against anyone who isn't Caucasian, Baptist, Heterosexual, and Conservative. Imagine their dismay when I use the outspokenness taught at their knee and my very existence forces them to be silent about the "queers, fags, dykes (insert any other derogatory term here)." My brotherinlaw (Jess's brother) proudly displays his confederate flag and it IS his symbol of racism and oppression. I thought that for Christmas we might give him a rainbow flag to run up along side of it... LOL I don't think that the use of "illegal" aliens in the workforce is a Southern issue. I am sure the practice is a national issue... Back to the all good things Southern... food... now there is something to celebrate! Nothing better than a slab of Memphis-style dry ribs washed down with the "house wine of the south"... iced tea so sweet its like instant diabetes! Kentucky bourbon... don't even get me started on my ongoing affair with Jim Beam backed by Sundrop soda (If you aren't familiar with Sundrop, lemme know and I will be glad to educate you!) Southern women... my oh my... who else but Dixie Carter as Julia Sugarbaker could tell you that you are the most ignorant fucktard on the face of the planet in that melodic southern drawl while dressed in a lovely powersuit and make you LIKE it??!?!?!? Anyone who knows me in real life, knows that I have that drawl and it seems to disguise the sharp tongue and makes the everpresent sarcasm more palatable... I like to think of it as camouflage. I'm sure that there are many things that are associated Southern that we should not be proud of... but like with everything else, I don't get to pick only the parts that I like... being Southern, to me, means that I take the good and the bad and try to live my truth. Southern is just another descriptor to me... and one I wear proudly. Christie

12-21-2009, 05:35 AM	#9
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270131	You know, it is very funny to me. I live and have lived in Georgia for nearly 25 years, have been a very out gay person, and have never once had anyone give me any problems about it. Matter of fact, the only time I have ever been given a problem was up in Ohio. Most of my friends are straight, biker types. I don't know if that is the difference or not. My sister lives in San Fran, and everytime I go out there, her friends do anything they can to get me to talk. Guess they like the accent or something. I find the people around here have a great sense of humor about the perception others have of Southerners. I am looking for a t-shirt to send my sister. I live not too far from where the movie Deliverance was filmed. There is a t-shirt that says "Paddle faster, I hear banjo music!" I really need to find that one to send her. rofl

12-21-2009, 05:55 AM	#10
WILDCAT Member How Do You Identify?: Very PROUD BUTCH LESBIAN! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: PA Posts: 679 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 796 Thanked 551 Times in 238 Posts Rep Power: 761791	No, I wasn't intending to imply that hiring illegal immigrants was a "southern" thing. Not at all. I was simply stating why I went to Texas then, and had difficulty finding work. I believe the immigrants were used in the worst kind of way at that time - there. Then. My experience. This same practice is going on in the north too, right now... (Texas is a major Mexican boarder state of course. It was "win/win" for the condo and complex contruction corporations/businesses during that time.) Yep, there are bigots everywhere. Ohio included. PA for sure. And on and on... it sadly goes. Regarding the flag and southern pride (?) Please, continue on. And I'll bow out here... PEACE

12-21-2009, 06:05 AM	#11
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270131	Personally, I could care less if someone wants to fly that darned rag (er, flag), to me it just gives everyone a warning that a dumbass lives here. All they get from me is an eyeroll. As far as living in the south? I live here cause I love it. Some on the best areas in the country to ride motorcycles. It fits me right down to the ground. Low speed, high drag.

12-21-2009, 11:07 AM	#13
hottprof Member How Do You Identify?: female Preferred Pronoun?: Miss to you... for hym... Relationship Status: Crashes One Femme Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: PA Posts: 335 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 180 Thanked 549 Times in 188 Posts Rep Power: 4984838	Disclaimer there maybe use of era related terminology in the attached links if this offends you my apologies. However, if you pick up any history book about the American Civil War you will read the “politically incorrect” rhetoric of the day. I do not typically post in controversial threads because my words I feel are better spoken on topics I may or may not agree with. But it has come to my attention through my friends here on this site that my words are needed in something that is not all “fun and fluff.” Oh wow, where do I start (this thread is a bummer and has unnecessary dramatics)... though I do have to say as a historian I am really appalled by the so called teachings of American students, being the product of the public school systems hell even I am not happy with all of my education but that is neither here nor there. I wish personally that people would first think about what they are saying and how they say it instead of just speaking out of pure hatred and anger towards another human being regardless of their beliefs. Just because someone does not agree with you doesn’t mean that pressing your opinion of the matter on them will get them to change their minds. It is hard to change 200+ years of personal and familial history with one post. The battle flag of northern Virginia vs the confederate flag: http://www.civilwarhome.com/battleflag.htm http://www.civilwarhome.com/confederateflags.htm http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CLASS/AM...att/intro.html since this is a web thread I will all assume if you want to learn you will read and learn if not that’s cool too I am just trying to clarify this is a learning experience for all of us. It is easy to use any kind of symbol to define your belief system. The cross is something some Christians use to define their belief. The pentagram is a symbol of belief for some pagans. The American flag is something to define the beliefs of a nation. The rainbow pride flag is the belief that no matter with color, creed, nationality or sexual desire your belief in it gives you hope. The swastika was something the Nazis used to define their belief. A Starbucks cup is defined as the belief that coffee will make your day right. An African American fist in the air is defined as a Black Panther movement. Two fingers in the air making a “V,” defines the belief in peace. Symbols became that way for a reason. Someone somewhere believed in them. So take your own beliefs and learn from others. It doesn’t matter what color or creed you come from just know that WE are a community here and need to embrace others opinions. We do not have to enjoy them or even like them but we should open our minds to them… Besides I thought this was a thread about being a proud southerner… and where and how I am going to have my first real southern cooked food (sure stereo typical but the south to me means AMAZING FOOD, warm hospitality and a slowed down pace of living.) I still have not had homemade grits, collard greens with bacon, fried chicken with biscuts and gravy with a side of mac and cheese. Smiles just my dollars worth hate me if you want peace

12-21-2009, 09:23 PM	#19
Jess Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?: other Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Patrick Springs, VA Posts: 2,812 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,247 Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts Rep Power: 0	Huge fan of the grits! My yankee dad ( native new yawker) would poo poo the grit yet he would nosh on scrapple for chris'sake! I prefer stone ground ( coarse, slow cooking) grits cooked with butter, chicken stock, heavy cream a smidge of roasted garlic and a heaping helping of grated cheese. Serve it up as a side dish for shrimp or a cajun spiced ribeye or for breakfast with grilled andouille and carmelized onions. Leftover grits can be turned into a torte of sorts ( or grit cake) by mixing a custard into it and adding chopped country ham ( or other fav salty meat!) and baking to "set". Great for slicing and grilling or serving as a "bottom" for canapes or makes a great treat with a salad for a lighter lunch. I can be as passionate about all things southern. The food is just one of the many things that endear me to this part of the country! Y'all come back now, ya hear?!?!