The Re-Definition of the Modern Butch

[T D]

I've been some form of lesbian, gay, butch, trans, anything but heterosexual, my entire life. I formally came out at the age of 19 in 1971. At that time, as T4Texas pointed out, there weren't a lot of choices when it came to IDing. In around 1973 I can remember one of my butch friends saying to me "what are you anyway?" meaning what was my ID. I told her that I'm whatever I want to be, which was completely unheard of and unacceptable at that time. Well as we all know a LOT has occured over the past 4 decades, but one thing I can tell you for sure is that Butch and Femme were IDs then and they're still IDs today. They will always be IDs.

In my world butch is internal, but can and does manifest in external ways as well. There is NO set way to be butch. Some butches cook and are quite domestic, others aren't. Some like mechanical stuff, others don't. Some have long hair, others don't. The differences are endless, and quite frankly mean little to nothing. It's certainly not about how one appears to the external world. Butch is about who you are INSIDE. How you feel about yourself, who you are to yourself.

I have always believed that people are who they believe they are. It's very simple. If you believe you're something, or perhaps not something, then that is your truth, your reality, your place in the world. NO one, and I mean absolutely NO one, has the right, obligation, responsibility, or place telling anyone else otherwise. And it is my belief that those who do are only projecting their own views of life (perhaps their own life) onto others. In order to know who people are we need to listen to them. I think listening is becoming a lost ability.

I've found the growing chasm between and describing IDs very disturbing of late. It's almost like people want to be "right", when there is NO "right". We are who we are, period. There will never be a "right", only an enormously diverse, and growing, variety of descriptions for the same (or nearly same) things........ over and over and over.

Just my 2 cents worth at the moment.

[Kobi]

Our community has taken the marketing of "be all you can be" to heart. We have done a terrific job of exploring and expanding the definitions of the variability of our collective identities and the neverending labels to describe them.

What we may be lagging in is our acceptance of the differences and respect for each individuals uniqueness.

I agree with TD, you are who you believe yourself to be and listening is truly a lost art.

[Jaques]

There are those who will be rigid in how they id and what they see as "the butch" but I feel that whether butch, femme, straight, bi, andro, sky blue pink with a yellow border, people change and change again, thats the way of everything, so what a person may feel he/she is today, down the line they move into some other way of being/thinking - thats how we, as human beings evolve............

[Kimbo]

Originally Posted by Jaques

There are those who will be rigid in how they id and what they see as "the butch" but I feel that whether butch, femme, straight, bi, andro, sky blue pink with a yellow border, people change and change again, thats the way of everything, so what a person may feel he/she is today, down the line they move into some other way of being/thinking - thats how we, as human beings evolve............

This is so true.

[MainelyButch]

Wow...some really good reading and view points here. I haven't been keeping up on the Planet much, guess I need to get my ass in gear and try to catch up. It's so hard to find "space" nowadays where one can read and relate to others who are perhaps of like mind. I am crashing through my mid-life crisis and find it difficult to connect with others lately.

Ok...back to reading!

[Rope]

For me, my issue with the lesbian as other is from the 70's when I came out--I was not welcome, I was told to tone it down (whatever "it" was) and told to embrace my feminine side because no matter how I tried, I wasn't going to be a man. I remain a male identified butch that has no problem with my butchness and never was trying to be a man.

As a butch leather Top, I still get shit--from the lesbians and from b/f folks, but hey, to each hys/her own. From the lesbians I get, "how are we ever going to get the right to vote when you leather folks show up in the media"...I dunno, how narrow do you want it to be so you can have that brass ring.

As a child of the 60's, weren't we going to tear down the patriarchy, including that need for a piece of paper to define ALL relationships like marriage? Weren't we going to tear down that binary world that said this is what men do and this is what women do? Didn't we radicalize the way we wore our clothes so that men could have long hair and women could wear pants if that's what they wanted to do?

And now oh so many years later, we're still trying to put each other down even within our own ranks for being too butch, not butch enough, the wrong kind of butch, too masculine, too feminine, a butch with long hair, a butch that can't fix a car----puleeese.

I love the fact that I walk through many worlds---I'm a native American, so I hang with my injun pals, I am a leather butch so I hang with leather folks, I am an overeducated liberal arts wonk, so I hang with those folks too, I live in S.F. so it's young vs. older, it's trendy andro vs. queer, it's ftm leaning to bi---it's all good. It's just sad that while we're dicing and slicing and figuring out what we want for ourselves some feel the need to put others down or criticize their way in the world.

When people actually sit down with me, they find that leather butch isn't what they think it is, they find that no, not all native Americans grow up in tepees (seriously, some people think we do), that butch doesn't always mean white collar or blue collar, that some butches prefer hy vs. she and some feel more masculine than feminine and it's all good.

Rope--

[BullDog]

All lesbians are not the same either. Some are butches and femmes.

[MainelyButch]

Originally Posted by Rope

And now oh so many years later, we're still trying to put each other down even within our own ranks for being too butch, not butch enough, the wrong kind of butch, too masculine, too feminine, a butch with long hair, a butch that can't fix a car----puleeese.
Rope--

I am seeing so much of this sort of "in-fighting" or "debating" if you will, within our own community lately. It really bothers me, I wish that the LGBT community could find a way to just live and let live without all of the criticism of each other. So this point you make really struck a chord with me. I see a lot of it on Youtube lately, it's been kind of a hot topic.

I sometimes wonder if there will come a time when we can all just agree to be unified in diversity. Maybe we need to discontinue calling ourselves the "LGBT" community altogether and maybe use something like "Diversity community" Our "issues" aren't really ours exclusively at all, but are issues of equality that cross a broad spectrum of sexuality, identity, race, religion...etc. Now I see in the news recently people asking if "T" should even be included in our alphabetical labeling of our community....perplexing and disturbing to me.

We seem to spend much time debating things that just don't make sense in the big scheme of things, while those against us use these same points for fodder to continue to keep us down. Anyhow, that's my humble opinion and 2 cents today....love this thread, and Metropolis, you are quite the gifted writer! Hope everyone is well and at peace with the world today.

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Rope

..snip...

And now oh so many years later, we're still trying to put each other down even within our own ranks for being too butch, not butch enough, the wrong kind of butch, too masculine, too feminine, a butch with long hair, a butch that can't fix a car----puleeese.

....snip.....

Rope--

Truth and I'll be frank, it really disgusts me every time I see the devaluing of any expression of someones identity.

People try to narrow down definitions to fit what they like-want-are... and peeps doing it somehow always fit right into what they're purporting as "the way"... that says something in itself though... just another case of step on others to raise oneself up in what ever way.

Makes for a lot of misinformation and a vicious circle the stifles freedom of expression rather than promotes it as you'd think we would.

[Hack]

As a survival mechanism long ago, I learned to simply think like this:

I define me.

Not the person making fun of me or telling me to tone it down.

Not the person calling me names. Because, frankly, they can fuck off.

Not the girl who flirts with me and then realizes in that split second I am not a biological man.

Not the girl who stands beside me, and I have been blessed with some awesome femmes who have totally embraced me.

No, I define me.

And I define only me. I don't dare define others. I don't know their journey to this moment when I encounter them. I accept their self-definition, hoping they will accept mine and we can interact like two adults.

And I am very comfortable with me. And I am blessed with friends who love me. And now and then, I am blessed with a woman who will put up with me.

That's just how I view the world.

Jake

[swagger]

what jake said.

and i let others define themselves too.

it's just basic respect.