Ode to Butches

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Kosmo

I thought the O.P. looked familiar. It was a craigs list link posted by someone in the 'Putting the Female in Female-Identified' thread. The craigs list link is no longer active, but I copied it as a pdf file. Who knows where it originally came from.

I've also read posts that do not credit the source and, if googled, can be found in a number of web locations. Sometimes I wonder if we are less likely to call someone out if we know them (personally or from another site). I would hope we would and be as gracious in reminding them.

I remember that post. That was originally posted by a man in search of a butch woman. I don't remember if he was straight, bi or gay.

I think the OP's intent was one of a positive view on butches more than a deliberate attempt to plagiarize. Perhaps it may be worthwhile as to what others would put in -- in their own words -- as part of or as their own Ode to Butches.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Linus

I remember that post. That was originally posted by a man in search of a butch woman. I don't remember if he was straight, bi or gay.

I think the OP's intent was one of a positive view on butches more than a deliberate attempt to plagiarize. Perhaps it may be worthwhile as to what others would put in -- in their own words -- as part of or as their own Ode to Butches.

I tried to edit my post again, but the site locked up and had to log off/log on.

There are slight differences. Ones that make a HUGE difference in how it reads. The one from craigs list was supposedly posted by a bio bi-man (or would it be bi bio male?).

Back to the topic. Yes, in our own words and if I don't read one soon, I will be forced to post an ode to myself *snickers*.

[BullDog]

That Craigslist ad sounded pretty fake to me when I first read it- like the text had been lifted from somewhere. Who knows.

la la already apologized, so I don't see the need to keep on her about it.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Kosmo

I thought the O.P. looked familiar. It was a craigs list link posted by someone in the 'Putting the Female in Female-Identified' thread. The craigs list link is no longer active, but I copied it as a pdf file. Who knows where it originally came from.

I've also read posts that do not credit the source and, if googled, can be found in a number of web locations. Sometimes I wonder if we are less likely to call someone out if we know them (personally or from another site). I would hope we would and be as gracious in reminding them.

So, any more Ode to Butches?

Hang on, I'm comparing my pdf file with the O.P. There may be some slight differences.

Originally Posted by Linus

I remember that post. That was originally posted by a man in search of a butch woman. I don't remember if he was straight, bi or gay.

I think the OP's intent was one of a positive view on butches more than a deliberate attempt to plagiarize. Perhaps it may be worthwhile as to what others would put in -- in their own words -- as part of or as their own Ode to Butches.

No, it wasn't the same one. Not at all. But this thread does prove that if butches *think* an 'ode' is written by a woman, or at least posted by one, then it's welcome, whereas one they believe is the exact same, if written or posted by a man, (attracted to masculinity) is not. Or at least that's what's been said before.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Hudson

No, it wasn't the same one. Not at all. But this thread does prove that if butches *think* an 'ode' is written by a woman, or at least posted by one, then it's welcome, whereas one they believe is the exact same, if written or posted by a man, (attracted to masculinity) is not. Or at least that's what's been said before.

yes, that struck me as well--such vastly different responses, i have to say it points to an element of homophobia... at the very least, male-phobia--i wonder why that dynamic is so uncomfortable for members.

[BullDog]

We aren't interested in men being interested in us. We are lesbian/queer.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by BullDog

We aren't interested in men being interested in us. We are lesbian/queer.

some of us are bi. some of us do love men, bio and otherwise. i just don't get rejecting men, categorically. i mean, the most my 'disinterest' gets is a 'shrug' --but there's something to all this *outrage* --that's what i don't get and find fascinating.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by apretty

yes, that struck me as well--such vastly different responses, i have to say it points to an element of homophobia... at the very least, male-phobia--i wonder why that dynamic is so uncomfortable for members.

We're GAY !lol.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Kosmo

I tried to edit my post again, but the site locked up and had to log off/log on.

There are slight differences. Ones that make a HUGE difference in how it reads. The one from craigs list was supposedly posted by a bio bi-man (or would it be bi bio male?).

Back to the topic. Yes, in our own words and if I don't read one soon, I will be forced to post an ode to myself *snickers*.

Originally Posted by Hudson

No, it wasn't the same one. Not at all. But this thread does prove that if butches *think* an 'ode' is written by a woman, or at least posted by one, then it's welcome, whereas one they believe is the exact same, if written or posted by a man, (attracted to masculinity) is not. Or at least that's what's been said before.

Hello Hudson,

As I posted, there are slight differences. I could post them, but what would be the point here in this thread? The differences are enough to differentiate the two. Whether one is more welcome than the other is strictly, in my opinion (for myself), where the 'ode' originates from. That is the privilege of the person receiving the 'ode' as to whether or not it is welcomed. We are each different in what we consider flattering or insulting.

This seems important to you and, if you would be open to it, I would gladly PM you the differences of the 'ode's.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Kosmo

Hello Hudson,

As I posted, there are slight differences. I could post them, but what would be the point here in this thread? The differences are enough to differentiate the two. Whether one is more welcome than the other is strictly, in my opinion (for myself), where the 'ode' originates from. That is the privilege of the person receiving the 'ode' as to whether or not it is welcomed. We are each different in what we consider flattering or insulting.

This seems important to you and, if you would be open to it, I would gladly PM you the differences of the 'ode's.

Hi Kosmo,

The slight variations in the odes themselves are unimportant to me. What is curious to me is the homophobia and transphobia (as some gay or bi trans men are attracted to butches) inherent within. I totally get butches having zero interest in the admiration/attraction of a straight man (who doesn't see them as masculine beings - hello). For me personally, I have no attraction to anyone masculine - males, females, butches, etc but I am not repulsed or threatened by their admiration/attraction of and to me. As long as they see me as the guy I am, I find it validating. If they were to see me differently and insist that I'm other than who I say I am, then that would be unwanted. Again, it's not important to me, I have no agenda - it's just an observation.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Hi Kosmo,

The slight variations in the odes themselves are unimportant to me. What is curious to me is the homophobia and transphobia (as some gay or bi trans men are attracted to butches) inherent within. I totally get butches having zero interest in the admiration/attraction of a straight man (who doesn't see them as masculine beings - hello). For me personally, I have no attraction to anyone masculine - males, females, butches, etc but I am not repulsed or threatened by their admiration/attraction of and to me. As long as they see me as the guy I am, I find it validating. If they were to see me differently and insist that I'm other than who I say I am, then that would be unwanted. Again, it's not important to me, I have no agenda - it's just an observation.

Hi ya, Hudson

I thought when you and I PM'd about 'the ode, that of which we will not speak' (here is where you chuckle), that I gave you an example that you understood. I don't know about other butches, but the thought of being penetrated and fucked, and pleasured by a man (really? Pleasured?) is in no way validating to me, as a Butch. If that paints me as male-phobic? Then baby, I'll paint my whole f-n' body.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

I personally do not see anything wrong with a man posting an ode to a butch woman.

I have lots of bio male friends and trans friends who love butch women, as friends or more. I think if someone or a class of people are being complimented, take it as a compliment and move on in life, it just shows that y'all are appreciated.

I think "someone or a class of people" get to decide individually and collectively what is complimentary and what is not.

Speaking only for myself and my butchness... I get to choose individually... if and by whom... I allow my butchness to be objectified by...

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Hudson

No, it wasn't the same one. Not at all. But this thread does prove that if butches *think* an 'ode' is written by a woman, or at least posted by one, then it's welcome, whereas one they believe is the exact same, if written or posted by a man, (attracted to masculinity) is not. Or at least that's what's been said before.

A couple butches opinions proves something about the way all butches think?

FYI, I read the ad to butches by the bio-male and was flattered... not interested but flattered none the less.

I didn't find it odd at all, it's not the first time I've run into guys who have a thing for butches... honestly the only thing I found odd was you're placing that article in the middle of a discussion about female butches, and perhaps your bee-lining in here to talk about it again.

But I totally believe to each their own... what you want to discuss really doesn't hold great interest for me... unless you make a sweeping generalization about what butches think.

We do not group think.

Peace,
Metro

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

A couple butches opinions proves something about the way all butches think?

FYI, I read the ad to butches by the bio-male and was flattered... not interested but flattered none the less.

I didn't find it odd at all, it's not the first time I've run into guys who have a thing for butches... honestly the only thing I found odd was you're placing that article in the middle of a discussion about female butches, and perhaps your bee-lining in here to talk about it again.

But I totally believe to each their own... what you want to discuss really doesn't hold great interest for me... unless you make a sweeping generalization about what butches think.

We do not group think.

Peace,
Metro

Hi Metro,

Thanks for sharing your opinion about the craigslist ad. I'm not here to discuss that ad. And I already explained my intent there, then. I made an observation about the different reaction this ode got. I never said 'all' butches although I can recall quite clearly that *most* butches responded negatively, one or two with outright hostility. I'm also not the only one who noticed and commented. So unless you're speaking to me as a moderator when you're accusing me of 'beelining' here to discuss 'it' again (read: starting trouble), kindly refrain.

Carry on.