Lesbian bed death?

[JustJo]

Hello all

I was going to post last night, but was so tired that I doubted I could form a coherent sentence. As I lay in bed I thought...funny...I'm too exhausted for posting, but not for sex...so, at least for me, physical tiredness has nothing to do with it.

I've been interested to read the comments here...don't agree necessarily, but interested just the same.

Let's see...for me, intimacy and sex are totally different things. I can have one without the other. I generally don't...but I can.

It isn't a lack of testosterone....I'm definitely not flooded with that, but I have a stronger sex drive than "normal" (men included).

And it isn't about a negative image or disapproval from the larger culture, because I didn't get the normal "sex is bad/dirty" messaging that many women get growing up, and I don't care what anyone thinks...and, also, I've had the same phenomenon happen in relationships with bio-men as well.

So....what is it then, for me?

A few things can happen....if I am angry, or feel attacked, or undervalued...then I don't feel sexual. I feel defensive or hurt, and those don't lead to either sexual desire or the feeling of desirability, value and safety that I need to want sex. That's the most common...

I've heard of people in long-term (as in years) relationships without sex...not only lesbian relationships, but also hetero relationships. I was in one for almost 2 years, and the lack of sexual connection killed the relationship. For me, sex is a crucial part. No, I don't have a particular timetable or act or *fill in the blank* that must happen...I'm not that rigid...but there has to be a sexual connection and a spark. As I've said in these forums before....if our bed is only for sleeping, then I'm an unhappy woman.

Here's what happens in my head...I am intimate with my best friend. I love her. She loves me. We know everything (and I do mean every thing) about each other. I have held her hand in the hospital. She has clipped my toenails when I was pregnant and couldn't reach them anymore. I have helped her check the "what the hell is that?" in a place she couldn't see. We are closer than most sisters. We think alike. We even look a bit alike. But we do not have a sexual spark with each other.

If I am in a love relationship, and our sex life dies, then I start to feel about you (general you) the way I do about her. There may be love. There may be intimacy. But suddenly we are sisters or friends....and it isn't the same. I don't plan my future with my friend, as much as I love her. I don't want to spend every night wrapped in her arms, as much as she loves me.

For me, there has to be more than love...more than intimacy...more than companionship...more than shared values....more than a shared residence.

[BullDog]

I have known of plenty of heterosexual relationships (testosterone included) where there was little if any sex- "bed death." But there is no term called heterosexual bed death. There's no term called gay men bed death.

Women have lower sex drives than men- I think that's a huge myth. Not everyone needs testosterone or a penis to want or enjoy sex.

[betenoire]

I think that for queer women our sexuality is a bit more hard-won than for straight women. While, yes, being queer IS something that just happened - knowing it and what it means ISN'T something that just happens. There's work and there's thought there. Because of that I don't think that we buy into a lot of the myths and fake-rules about sex that people who haven't had to really fight/learn MAY often buy into.

Nobody is going to tell me that I have to have sex with my spouse. Nobody is going to tell me that it's my wifely duty to have sex with my spouse when I don't feel like it. Nobody is going to make me feel guilty for not having sex with my spouse when I am mad/hurt/annoyed/have a toothache/tired/whatever. My sexuality just comes with far too much self-awareness for me to fall for any of that bullshit.

So IF and ONLY IF female-female couples are fucking less often 5/10/15 years into the relationship than their male-female couple counterparts (and that's a big if, I don't know that I buy that) - that's the reason. Because we are fortunate enough to know that we are ALLOWED to not fuck.

Some women don't know that they have that choice.

[Corkey]

I have to wonder what would happen if at any point in a relationship one partner ends up with a condition that precludes them from having or participating in sex. I married my partner for better or worse, that includes the sex. Dumping a partner because there is a lack of sex in my opinion, is ridicules. Communication.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I have to wonder what would happen if at any point in a relationship one partner ends up with a condition that precludes them from having or participating in sex. I married my partner for better or worse, that includes the sex. Dumping a partner because there is a lack of sex in my opinion, is ridicules. Communication.

I think there are many, many things that can be defined as sex...and I can't imagine a condition that would preclude all of them.

If my partner was unable to participate in a particular kind of sex because of a medical condition or injury...no problem. I have a great imagination.

What I would "dump" a partner for is a continual lack of any desire to engage in sex of any kind with me. For me, that's the deal killer. It isn't whether someone can handle any specific act...it's the unwillingness or lack of desire to engage in anything at all.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by JustJo

I think there are many, many things that can be defined as sex...and I can't imagine a condition that would preclude all of them.

If my partner was unable to participate in a particular kind of sex because of a medical condition or injury...no problem. I have a great imagination.

What I would "dump" a partner for is a continual lack of any desire to engage in sex of any kind with me. For me, that's the deal killer. It isn't whether someone can handle any specific act...it's the unwillingness or lack of desire to engage in anything at all.

I think that comes down to communication. There are folks with mental health issues such as chronic depression, who for many reasons do not want sex. I think that there are extenuating circumstances that befall many couples, so for me to make blanket statements about sex being the deal breaker, it is just not justified.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I have to wonder what would happen if at any point in a relationship one partner ends up with a condition that precludes them from having or participating in sex. I married my partner for better or worse, that includes the sex. Dumping a partner because there is a lack of sex in my opinion, is ridicules. Communication.

Corkey this is one of the best posts i've seen.

Since when does almighty sex trump everything else in a couples life?

Of course sex is a good thing, but if that i the string holding it together that is a sad thing.

If that is all i mean to you, you are not for me.

[~ocean]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

Corkey this is one of the best posts i've seen.

Since when does almighty sex trump everything else in a couples life?

Of course sex is a good thing, but if that i the string holding it together that is a sad thing.

If that is all i mean to you, you are not for me.

I agree w/ u both ~~ u love for better or worse ~~ btw HI (((( dee ))))

[SaltyButch]

This term "lesbian bed death" is one that has been around for forever, it's unfortunate that negativity prevails over all. I can only speak to my experiences, and I have been in relationships where the sex was plentiful and waned and regained momentum. The reason mostly is not because you lack the physical desire but that we are emotional beings and therefore when our emotions come into play all aspects of our life are affected.

I am in agreement that sex is not the be all and end all in a relationship but it is important and to me can be the glue...if I am physically separate from someone for any length of time I feel disconnected. Of course, if my partner has some ailment that presents a challenge that is a whole different ballgame and I would stay by her side.

The "death" in my opinion is much like "making love" it starts long before you reach the bedroom, and therefore each moment and each day should be one that nurtures the soul of each of you so that your "bed" can flourish.

[sharonsuburbia]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

Corkey this is one of the best posts i've seen.

Since when does almighty sex trump everything else in a couples life?

Of course sex is a good thing, but if that i the string holding it together that is a sad thing.

If that is all i mean to you, you are not for me.

i very much agree and i was on the str8 marriage side - no sex ever by my choice but had i not come out and was still married i am there for better or worse just as if now if i was married to another woman i would be

[homoe]

I know it’s always been associated with lesbians but really isn’t “death bed" prevalent with all relationships whether heterosexual or homosexual? What nincompoop had to assoicate it just with lesbians?

[Toughy]

Most frequent to least frequent sex (many studies show)

1) male/male

2) female/male

3) female/female


The thought is testosterone = higher levels of sexual desire. The thought is that females need to have a positive emotional connection with their partner in order to desire sex ( or rather, females have more of a need for there to be no tension in the relationship in order to desire sex), more so than males. So, if you have two females together and there are difficulties in the relationship, less chance of sex happening than the other two couplings.

Whose thoughts??

Did this come from The Onion?????

must be satire.......has to be satire.......

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I have known of plenty of heterosexual relationships (testosterone included) where there was little if any sex- "bed death." But there is no term called heterosexual bed death. There's no term called gay men bed death.

Women have lower sex drives than men- I think that's a huge myth. Not everyone needs testosterone or a penis to want or enjoy sex.

Red highlighted statement - Did someone say that here? Yes, I agree that this would be a bit ludicrous to think. After all, females do desire sex. Side note, females have testosterone, too, just less of it than males.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Red highlighted statement - Did someone say that here? Yes, I agree that this would be a bit ludicrous to think. After all, females do desire sex. Side note, females have testosterone, too, just less of it than males.

Dapper what is your point of coming into this thread? To talk about how men want sex more than women?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Dapper what is your point of coming into this thread? To talk about how men want sex more than women?

No, this was my point:

My personal thoughts:

Lesbian bed death? = problem in relationship. Does it exist? Well, everyone's (all couplings) frequency in sexual relations decreases over time, so if female/female are having less sex to begin with, it makes sense that it could drop to zero, especially if there are problems in the relationship.

My opinion is that bed death could happen in any coupling if there are problems in the relationship.

Of course health impacts all this, as well.


You took it to talking about males. I spoke of males into order to explain how I got to my "lose" theory.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

No, this was my point:

My personal thoughts:

Lesbian bed death? = problem in relationship. Does it exist? Well, everyone's (all couplings) frequency in sexual relations decreases over time, so if female/female are having less sex to begin with, it makes sense that it could drop to zero, especially if there are problems in the relationship.

My opinion is that bed death could happen in any coupling if there are problems in the relationship.

Of course health impacts all this, as well.


You took it to talking about males. I spoke of males into order to express how I got to my "lose" theory.

I don't agree with the part in bold. It's a generalization. As you yourself said, there is individual variation.

I get real, real tired of the perpetuation of stereotypes of lesbians and women that I see here almost daily. Real, real tired. Now I am going to go take a few aspirin and go do something else.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I don't agree with the part in bold. It's a generalization. As you yourself said, there is individual variation.

I get real, real tired of the perpetuation of stereotypes of lesbians and women that I see here almost daily. Real, real tired. Now I am going to go take a few aspirin and go do something else.

Ok. I was actually about to post that I am off to bed. Good night.

[Poss]

and we discuss it like it's a fact about us.

What a terrible thing that heterosexual sexologist woman did. Such a horrible thing to come up with, just because those that took part in the survey don't have physical sex as often as straights and gay guys in the survey did.

I've put up with this crap for 3 decades ...enough is enough! Wouldn't it be ironic if we actually make love with our lesbian partners more often than the other 2 grouped categories do.

Love making for us lesbians encompasses so much more than just physical penetrative type sex practices. The depth of intensity between us is almost mind blowing. That woman probably wouldn't have a clue on how to even begin measuring our way of love making.

We lesbians should never sell ourselves short like this. Be mindful not to view yourself through their eyes!

[SnugglyGirl007]

Love this topic. This has happened in two of my relationships.

Both of them were because I lost complete respect for my lover because of the way they treated me. They literally became unattractive to me over time because of this and the thought of sex with them was basically repulsive.

And these relationships were ON FIRE at first, but sex alone only gets you so far ...

[*Anya*]

The phrase and stereotype of lesbian bed death irks the shit out of me.

The phrase is from a 1983 study that never seems to die.

How about some newer studies? How about lesbians have more orgasms and sex lasts longer:

"Lesbians are apparently having better sex than straight women.

A recent study published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine focuses on how sexual orientation associates with orgasm frequency in single men and women.

Researchers collected responses via a 2011 online questionnaire from 6,151 men and women between the ages of 21 and 65. They then only analyzed those response of a smaller subsample of 2,850 singles -- including 1,497 men and 1,353 women -- who had sex within the past 12 months.

Participants were asked to identify their gender, sexual orientation and percentage of time they orgasm with a familiar partner on a scale of zero to 100.

Although responses from the male participants did not vary much based on sexual orientation -- heterosexual men reported an 85.5 percent orgasm rate, gay men 84.7 percent, and bisexual men 77.6 percent -- responses from women showed notable variation. While heterosexual women reported orgasming 61.6 percent of the time and bisexual women reported 58 percent, lesbian women had the highest orgasmrate at 74.7 percent.

In the study text, the researchers posit the higher lesbian percentage could be attributed to factors such as "self-identified lesbian women are more comfortable and familiar with the female body and thus, on average, are better able to induce orgasm in their female partners." Other reasonings include: length of the sexual encounter, attitude towards gender, sexual roles during intercourse and possible hormonal differences.

Author Justin R. Garcia, MS, PhD, who is an assistant professor of gender studies and a director at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University, explained the implications of the findings further in an email to The Huffington Post.

"Little is known about orgasm occurrences among women and men of varied sexual orientations across the adult lifespan," he said. "Understanding the factors that influence variation in orgasm occurrence among sexual minority populations may assist in tailoring behavioral therapies for those of different sexual orientations."

Such a study could offer better insight into better orgasms for all couples, he said.

"Moreover, to the extent that lack of orgasm is seen as a common and unwanted problem, learning more about orgasm in same-sex relationships may inform treatment for men and women in both same-sex and mixed-sex relationships. Consequently, these findings may contribute to promotion of a more informed and positive sexual health care."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0..._5691470.htmIs

Lesbian bed death?

"So is there any truth behind “lesbian bed death?” It is true that long-term lesbian couples tend to have sex less frequently over time; however, this effect has also been found in almost every other type of long-term relationship, including mixed-sex and male same-sex couples.

This is not to say that sex usually disappears entirely (although it certainly may in some cases—sexless relationships do exist); rather, the point is simply that a decline in sexual frequency is hardly unique to lesbians.

Also, while lesbian couples do tend to have sex less often compared to other couples, sexual frequency data doesn’t tell the full story. If you only focus on the number of sex acts without considering the duration of each act, you may come to erroneous conclusions about who spends the most and who spends the least total time on sex. Indeed, it may very well be that lesbians have sex less often, but when they do have sex, they do it for longer than average—and this is exactly what research has found.

A recent study published in the Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality found that while women in same-sex relationships reported having sex significantly less often than persons in both mixed-sex and male same-sex relationships, women in same-sex relationships reported significantly longer durations of sexual activity than all other groups [2].

Consider this: for women in same-sex relationships, the median (50th percentile) time spent on sex was 30-45 minutes; in contrast, the median for everyone else was 15-30 minutes. Also, whereas about 20% of women in same-sex relationships reported spending an hour or more on sex, durations of this length were much less common among other types of couples.

There were also no differences in sexual satisfaction across couple types, suggesting that any differences in sexual frequency were counterbalanced by differences in sexual duration.

In short, it’s time that the concept of “lesbian bed death” is put to bed once and for all.

While women in same-sex relationships may have sex less often than other couples, their sexual act tends to be longer and they do not appear to be any less sexually satisfied."

[1] Blumstein, P., & Schwartz, P. (1983). American couples: Money, work, sex. New York: Morrow.

[2] Blair, K. L., & Pukall, C. F. (2014). Can less be more? Comparing duration vs. frequency of sexual encounters in same-sex and mixed-sex relationships. The Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality, 23(2), 123-136.

http://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2015/3...h-a-real-thing