Male ID butch vs. FTM??

Thinker · 02-25-2011, 07:54 PM

I've never denied the automatic "privilege" that a man receives once he goes out into the world, and I'm not going to do that now.

And I'm also not going to turn a deaf ear to those (trans)men who, as a result of transitioning, have lost their jobs, health benefits, families, loved ones, and/or homes. Those guys don't feel like they got much in the privilege department as a result of transitioning, and I can get where they're coming from.

That doesn't mean they get to act like asses and work to keep women down or any such nonsense, and I feel quite certain we are ALL on the same page there. But I do think we should ALL hear that those things are as much a reality and a result of the transition as the privilege is.

There are folks right here in this community who will say, "Tough shit. You wanted to transition; take the bad with the good." And you all know good and well that is a fact. Some people in b/f land have all but SAID those EXACT same words.

My gawd... Not one person here has said, "Transmen do NOT receive male privilege." People are trying to say it isn't necessarily automatic and isn't always easy and doesn't always feel like it............and that it is more complex than that!! Why can't it be grey? Why does it have to be so fucking black or white?

It doesn't feel good to have your struggle reduced to something that takes three seconds to say. If someone here goes through this world as a man and never encounters anyone who knows of his trans history and you hear him say he does not receive male privilege, I would really love to be a part of that conversation. Seriously. Because, yeah, there's something amiss there.

But until then, I think we should ALL honor each individual's struggle and hear them and question with compassion and respect. And I feel that way about everyone.....regardless of their identity, socio-economic status, race, position, etc... A little kindness goes a long way.

Thinker · 02-25-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Furthermore, what is the point of discussing one individual's privilege within a situation, if the awareness of each person's privilege is equally important when it comes down to burning the gender rulebook? The only purpose I can see is to guilt, alienate and shame one of the two parties; to place the importance of one over the other, and that is what I feel has happened at certain points of this thread when male privilege and transmen have been brought up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina

i was responding to Ender's post, to this in part. It seems to say there is no point in talking about male privilege as it applies to transmen. i don't agree.

I wanted to acknowledge this since it seems it was in response to a question I asked you; I appreciate the reply.

Personally, I don't see how you got "there is no point in talking about male privilege as it applies to transmen" from what he wrote. I admit to not always getting things the first time around, but I just think there is so much more to what he said.

Respectfully,
Thinker

DomnNC · 02-25-2011, 08:31 PM

Awesome post Thinker. I totally get what you're saying, I read somewhere the other night and dang I wish I could put my finger on it right now, but it said that over 50% of the transmen in the US live far under the poverty level cuz as you said they lost their jobs, homes, family, etcetcetc when they transition. So now they are also left without healthcare as well if the state won't cover them. It was also said that the transmen group are one of the highest discriminated against groups in the US right now. Now that's privilege.

I can pass quite easily when I choose to do so. I had a very stressful high up job in a big manufacturing facility with 6 remote branches. I was the MIS Director for the whole shabang. I had to cost justify every little penny I wanted to spend. I was questioned endlessly as to why I wanted to spend the money. They even called other companies to come in and verify what I said. When I had my last back surgery they replaced me within a week with a "real" man with a cock dangling between his legs that said he had been with IBM for 20+ years and oh my he could do it all. He wound up costing that company well over $200,000 for shit they didn't need or to replace stuff he tore up and was hiding it, didn't have to justify one thing to them, he could just do it. Short ending, before my medical leave was up they called wanting me to come back full time, that I could run the department as I saw fit, you know, male privilege, I told em to go screw themselves in not so nice terms. So see, we don't get privilege like some people think we do, it's not all encompassing male privilege. At least my experience has been quite the opposite. I'm not denying it's out there somewhere, it's just not been my experience all that much.

lol, it took em 3 years to figure out the man lied about every ability he had and to fire him.

02-25-2011, 07:54 PM	#1
Thinker Senior Member How Do You Identify?: transman Preferred Pronoun?: male Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,868 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 710 Thanked 4,133 Times in 1,079 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I've never denied the automatic "privilege" that a man receives once he goes out into the world, and I'm not going to do that now. And I'm also not going to turn a deaf ear to those (trans)men who, as a result of transitioning, have lost their jobs, health benefits, families, loved ones, and/or homes. Those guys don't feel like they got much in the privilege department as a result of transitioning, and I can get where they're coming from. That doesn't mean they get to act like asses and work to keep women down or any such nonsense, and I feel quite certain we are ALL on the same page there. But I do think we should ALL hear that those things are as much a reality and a result of the transition as the privilege is. There are folks right here in this community who will say, "Tough shit. You wanted to transition; take the bad with the good." And you all know good and well that is a fact. Some people in b/f land have all but SAID those EXACT same words. My gawd... Not one person here has said, "Transmen do NOT receive male privilege." People are trying to say it isn't necessarily automatic and isn't always easy and doesn't always feel like it............and that it is more complex than that!! Why can't it be grey? Why does it have to be so fucking black or white? It doesn't feel good to have your struggle reduced to something that takes three seconds to say. If someone here goes through this world as a man and never encounters anyone who knows of his trans history and you hear him say he does not receive male privilege, I would really love to be a part of that conversation. Seriously. Because, yeah, there's something amiss there. But until then, I think we should ALL honor each individual's struggle and hear them and question with compassion and respect. And I feel that way about everyone.....regardless of their identity, socio-economic status, race, position, etc... A little kindness goes a long way. __________________ Practice humility and kindness.

02-25-2011, 08:31 PM	#3
DomnNC Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Male Preferred Pronoun?: He/Him Relationship Status: Widow Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Permanently Banned 11/15/2011 Posts: 1,223 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,618 Thanked 2,582 Times in 837 Posts Rep Power: 0	Awesome post Thinker. I totally get what you're saying, I read somewhere the other night and dang I wish I could put my finger on it right now, but it said that over 50% of the transmen in the US live far under the poverty level cuz as you said they lost their jobs, homes, family, etcetcetc when they transition. So now they are also left without healthcare as well if the state won't cover them. It was also said that the transmen group are one of the highest discriminated against groups in the US right now. Now that's privilege. I can pass quite easily when I choose to do so. I had a very stressful high up job in a big manufacturing facility with 6 remote branches. I was the MIS Director for the whole shabang. I had to cost justify every little penny I wanted to spend. I was questioned endlessly as to why I wanted to spend the money. They even called other companies to come in and verify what I said. When I had my last back surgery they replaced me within a week with a "real" man with a cock dangling between his legs that said he had been with IBM for 20+ years and oh my he could do it all. He wound up costing that company well over $200,000 for shit they didn't need or to replace stuff he tore up and was hiding it, didn't have to justify one thing to them, he could just do it. Short ending, before my medical leave was up they called wanting me to come back full time, that I could run the department as I saw fit, you know, male privilege, I told em to go screw themselves in not so nice terms. So see, we don't get privilege like some people think we do, it's not all encompassing male privilege. At least my experience has been quite the opposite. I'm not denying it's out there somewhere, it's just not been my experience all that much. lol, it took em 3 years to figure out the man lied about every ability he had and to fire him.