Male ID butch vs. FTM??

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Jaques

Thank you blade..................it happens...........GJ

Uhh, yeah. So I suppose whenever we talk about violence against women we also need to remind everyone that sometimes women assault men? And there have been at least three cases of women raping men!

Forgive my sarcasm, but am I the only person who can't help taking this bait?

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Uhh, yeah. So I suppose whenever we talk about violence against women we also need to remind everyone that sometimes women assault men? And there have been at least three cases of women raping men!

Forgive my sarcasm, but am I the only person who can't help taking this bait?

I think you might be.

And I mean no disrespect in saying that. I also mean no disrespect to Jacques when I say that I, personally, couldn't find it in myself to dignify it with a response.

It's apples and oranges.

I also don't mean to minimize the reality of abuse perpetrated on men by women, but it's not even conscionable that one would could offer that up as some sort of excuse or retort to the real and persistent issue of men disrespecting, abusing, and/or devaluing women.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Thinker

I think you might be.

And I mean no disrespect in saying that. I also mean no disrespect to Jacques when I say that I, personally, couldn't find it in myself to dignify it with a response.

It's apples and oranges.

I also don't mean to minimize the reality of abuse perpetrated on men by women, but it's not even conscionable that one would could offer that up as some sort of excuse or retort to the real and persistent issue of men disrespecting, abusing, and/or devaluing women.

You're right. I should have known better than to respond when I saw that the poster felt compelled to repost the remark after nobody responded the first time. I won't fall for it again.

[Jaques]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

You're right. I should have known better than to respond when I saw that the poster felt compelled to repost the remark after nobody responded the first time. I won't fall for it again.

I didnt feel compelled to repost, just thanking Blade for the response......

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Thinker

I think you might be.

And I mean no disrespect in saying that. I also mean no disrespect to Jacques when I say that I, personally, couldn't find it in myself to dignify it with a response.

It's apples and oranges.

I also don't mean to minimize the reality of abuse perpetrated on men by women, but it's not even conscionable that one would could offer that up as some sort of excuse or retort to the real and persistent issue of men disrespecting, abusing, and/or devaluing women.

^This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the post/repost as well. To me those kinds of comments also throw a stick in the spokes when it comes to communicating concerns to each other. Kind of like going backward rather than forward.

[Martina]

Isn't male privilege useful FOR speaking up when sexist remarks are made? i know this is a trans thread. i am not sure i can do any good by speaking here. i have been asked questions and then criticized for coming in here at all. My responses have been characterized as finger wagging and as shouting down. i can't really productively engage with that.

Thinker and Ender, it's not about how i feel about the lives of transmen. Of course, i must take responsibility for cis-privilege. And it's not, imo, about what goes on here on this thread or on this site. I am not trying to silence anyone here or anywhere.

I restate my point, that in the world, men who are not aware of male privilege, do harm. i hope that all men take responsibility for that unequivocally. i do not think that requests for exemptions, if that is what i am hearing, make any sense in real world situations.

i have no control over any one else's behavior. i do not want it. i do know that the more often i am told that my concern with the harm that male privilege can do should not be a priority, the less likely i am to hear others' concerns also. Male privilege is a safety issue for me.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Martina

Isn't male privilege useful FOR speaking up when sexist remarks are made? i know this is a trans thread. i am not sure i can do any good by speaking here. i have been asked questions and then criticized for coming in here at all. My responses have been characterized as finger wagging and as shouting down. i can't really productively engage with that.

Thinker and Ender, it's not about how i feel about the lives of transmen. Of course, i must take responsibility for cis-privilege. And it's not, imo, about what goes on here on this thread or on this site. I am not trying to silence anyone here or anywhere.

I restate my point, that in the world, men who are not aware of male privilege, do harm. i hope that all men take responsibility for that unequivocally. i do not think that requests for exemptions, if that is what i am hearing, make any sense in real world situations.

i have no control over any one else's behavior. i do not want it. i do know that the more often i am told that my concern with the harm that male privilege can do should not be a priority, the less likely i am to hear others' concerns also. Male privilege is a safety issue for me.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm not entirely clear what you're saying here. Does this have to do with my decision not to engage Jacques or respond to his comment?

If so (and I realize that may not be what your point was) then all I have to say to that is this... Sometimes people post things here for NO OTHER REASON than to spark a fire or poke at someone/something. For me, personally, I felt that was what was happening, and I opted not to go down a road that I (again, just me) felt would be fruitless and would take the light off what I felt was a more important discussion.

Again, that's just me and why I did what I did and said what I said.

I know from experience (as I'm sure most of us do) that you can't educate everyone and you can't get them to see another perspective. I also know that in discussion forums, in particular, there are people who *intentionally* drop little stink bombs just to get the discussion to go elsewhere. I just wasn't willing to do that, and I still don't think it would have been wise or beneficial to engage Jacques in that instance.

And again, to Jacques... I really mean no disrespect to you on a personal level. I just have a strong gut feeling that you weren't really trying to participate in a positive way. The fact that you only made one comment and then repeated it tells me I just might be right.

And if I'm wrong...well....it won't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

Martina, if I was way off here, my apologies to you. Like I said, I couldn't grasp a clear point with what you wrote. I'm sure that's on me. If I was off, then maybe you wouldn't mind a little elaboration???

Respectfully,
Thinker

[Martina]

My first sentence had to do with that. And i agree it's every person's choice whether to engage, but it just seemed ironic given the discussion.

The rest had to do with previous posts in which you and Ender had asked me some questions.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by Martina

My first sentence had to do with that. And i agree it's every person's choice whether to engage, but it just seemed ironic given the discussion.

The rest had to do with previous posts in which you and Ender had asked me some questions.

Your posts have been perfectly clear. I agree with you. There is no justification for anyone exerting any kind of gender privilege over anyone, ever. How they arrive at that privilege is incidental.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Martina

My first sentence had to do with that. And i agree it's every person's choice whether to engage, but it just seemed ironic given the discussion.

I agree with you on both counts. And given the situation, the manner in which he posted, and a little history of similar posts, I opted out of engaging.

I do the very best I can in navigating this new "me" and my new life. I have addressed unbelievably ignorant and cruel statements and felt my heart beating in my throat when doing so. I have also ignored some ignorant sh*t.

I don't think for one second I have made the correct decision each time. As a matter of fact, I think I screw up quite a bit. But I can say with 100% certainty that I do more good than harm, and I treat ALL people with the same courtesy and respect with which I would like to be treated.

It would be nice if you and everyone I come across approved of every choice I made/make, but that's just not gonna happen. In this particular situation, you have reasons for believing something should have been said; and I have reasons for believing that addressing it would have been a bad move. I don't think either of us is wrong or intended harm; we just see it differently.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

^This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the post/repost as well. To me those kinds of comments also throw a stick in the spokes when it comes to communicating concerns to each other. Kind of like going backward rather than forward.

Exactly. The bolded statement especially.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Uhh, yeah. So I suppose whenever we talk about violence against women we also need to remind everyone that sometimes women assault men? And there have been at least three cases of women raping men!

Forgive my sarcasm, but am I the only person who can't help taking this bait?

I've found this users' posts, frankly, ridiculous and largely lacking in content and relevance. I thought by intent, and so not worth comment.

I guess that means I didn't take the bait.

[Corkey]

I'm with Bent and Thinker, it wasn't a question of it being right, it was in My view point a statement minus facts.

[HerDaddy]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I'm with Bent and Thinker

Is this because your a coward? You cant think for yourself? I'm just curious, a few pages back you literally ran over Mike for his opinions. But now you agree with one transman, and another she butch.

I'm sorry i'm just confused. You are a she butch. Taking any type of male hormone such as T doesnt make you male ID Butch or ftm.

I'm still reading, but its better to have or form your own opinions, than being a follower.

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by HerDaddy

Is this because your a coward? You cant think for yourself? I'm just curious, a few pages back you literally ran over Mike for his opinions. But now you agree with one transman, and another she butch.

I'm sorry i'm just confused. You are a she butch. Taking any type of male hormone such as T doesnt make you male ID Butch or ftm.

I'm still reading, but its better to have or form your own opinions, than being a follower.

excuse me could you please clarify yourself a little better because your post seems a little angry...and the hioghlighted part could you expound because it feels really gross what you are stating here...thank you

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by HerDaddy

Is this because your a coward? You cant think for yourself? I'm just curious, a few pages back you literally ran over Mike for his opinions. But now you agree with one transman, and another she butch.

I'm sorry i'm just confused. You are a she butch. Taking any type of male hormone such as T doesnt make you male ID Butch or ftm.

I'm still reading, but its better to have or form your own opinions, than being a follower.

HerDaddy,

First off, my experience of/with Corkey is that he is MORE than capable of thinking for himself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with chiming in on these boards that you agree with other posters.

Secondly, neither Mr. Bent nor Corkey are "she butches"; and I find it completely rude and disrespectful that you would make such a statement. We offer a community of support here, and those types of remarks are not supportive at all.

Thinker (posting as a member, no moderator)

[HerDaddy]

Originally Posted by Thinker

HerDaddy,

First off, my experience of/with Corkey is that he is MORE than capable of thinking for himself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with chiming in on these boards that you agree with other posters.

Secondly, neither Mr. Bent nor Corkey are "she butches"; and I find it completely rude and disrespectful that you would make such a statement. We offer a community of support here, and those types of remarks are not supportive at all.

Thinker (posting as a member, no moderator)

I'm sorry you feel that others are not allowed to have opinions.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by HerDaddy

I'm sorry you feel that others are not allowed to have opinions.

You can have all the opinions you want. I'm sorry it's problematic to *you* that someone is going to call you out on your opinions.

And that *is* going to be what happens.

It's not okay to come into these threads and be shitty to people. When it's done, it gets called out.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by HerDaddy

I'm sorry i'm just confused. You are a she butch. Taking any type of male hormone such as T doesnt make you male ID Butch or ftm.

I'm still reading, but its better to have or form your own opinions, than being a follower.

You wouldn't know anything about it. Why don't you step off jerk.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by HerDaddy

Is this because your a coward? You cant think for yourself? I'm just curious, a few pages back you literally ran over Mike for his opinions. But now you agree with one transman, and another she butch.

I'm sorry i'm just confused. You are a she butch. Taking any type of male hormone such as T doesnt make you male ID Butch or ftm.

I'm still reading, but its better to have or form your own opinions, than being a follower.

HerDaddy, claiming you are someone's daddy doesn't make you one either, but I'm not going to challenge your personal perception - and possibly misguided notion - that you are one. It's clear you should have read a lot more, and all over these forums, before putting fingers to keyboard. You do not get to call me, or any other member who does not so identify, a "she butch." I'm not even sure what that is.

I'd be angry at your offensive posts here, but I find anger is an emotion wasted on the ignorant, instead I'll simply hope that you continue to read and educate yourself before continuing to insult members of this website.