Japanese reactor crisis

[Julie]

I received an email which was sent from one of our Japanese Members who is in Sendai.
I can't share the entire email (it would be wrong). BUT...

Here are a few of her words. We can learn so much from the Japanese. I wonder if this happened in America, if we would remain so loving and civilized.

"Utterly amazingly where I am there has been no looting, no pushing in lines. People leave their front door open, as it is safer when an earthquake strikes. People keep saying, "Oh, this is how it used to be in the old days when everyone helped one another."

"And the Japanese themselves are so wonderful. I come back to my shack to check on it each day, now to send this e-mail since the electricity is on, and I find food and water left in my entranceway. I have no idea from whom, but it is there. Old men in green hats go from door to door checking to see if everyone is OK. People talk to complete strangers asking if theyneed help. I see no signs of fear. Resignation, yes, but fear or panic, no."

It just fills me with such respect and admiration for a people who are faced with their mortality, every waking moment during this time.

May Peace be in Japan
May Peace Prevail On Earth

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Diva

So there's a lot of talk about radiation....and thyroid issues....and iodine tablets......


But what about the rest of one's body? How does radiation affect THAT?

Just curious.....cuz I'm thinking that thyroid cancer may just be a drop in the bucket compared to other things which high doses of radiation can jerk around!

Diva:

Actually thyroid cancer IS just a drop in the bucket. There are a lot of things that can go wrong. I will try to explain why radiation is dangerous.

So, the first thing to keep in mind is that radiation is just another name for 'light'. What we call visible light is just a middle part of the spectrum of electromagnetic frequencies (which I'll call EMF from here out). The spectrum runs from (in ascending order of frequency) radio, microwave, infrared, visible, ultraviolet, X-ray and gamma ray. As you move up the scale the wavelength gets shorter and the energy of the photon (and ALL of these are just photons at different levels of energy) increases. Radio waves are kind of leisurely, poking along photons, X-ray and gamma rays are very fast-paced, energetic photons. Because your body is made of atoms, the higher energy frequencies can actually move with enough energy that they can penetrate your body and begin disrupting the atoms.

What happens is that a fast moving photon can strip an electron from an atom, thus changing the atom into an ion. It's still an atom but while most atoms in your body have a neutral charge because there's an equal number of protons (positive charge) and electrons (negative charge) an ion has a net positive or negative charge because there are more of one than the other. (Obviously, if there are more protons then the charge is positive and if more electrons then negative.) This can cause all kinds of problems because the atoms become chemically reactive in ways they may not be.

Radiation effects living cells so it causes the following kinds of problems*:


1) Cells undergo DNA damage, cannot repair the damage, and undergo cell death.
2) Cells undergo DNA damage, cannot repair the damage, don't *die* and the damage is then passed on to further cell divisions. This can lead to cancers of various sorts.
3) Cells undergo DNA damage, cannot repair it, don't die, errors of either replication or transcription are passed on leading to cancers or mimicking the effects of aging.

Different types of radioactive isotopes** have different characteristics. So, for instance, Strontium attacks bones causing problems with the marrow. Other isotopes attack the internal organs, other attack the skin, etc. If these isotopes get inside the body they can wreak havoc. The really nasty stuff (Cesium, Plutonium, Strontium) also have very long half-lives (the amount of time it takes for a given quantity of an element to lose half its mass) so they tend to *stay* in the body.

This all sounds very grim and it is. However, the news is not ALL bad. There are three types of radioactive particles that concern us--alpha, beta and gamma particles. Alpha and beta particles can be stopped by ordinary substances--like clothing. Gamma particles, on the other hand, are SO energetic that protection needs to be from a material with a high atomic number*** like lead. Unfortunately, lead is inconveniently heavy.

* This is not exhaustive
** (an isotope is when an atom has the same number of protons but differing numbers of neutrons which lead to slightly lighter or heavier versions of the atom in question)
*** Every atom has an atomic number equal to the number of protons in the nucleus. Each element on the periodic table has a unique number of protons. The isotopes of each element is because of the differing number of neutrons in the nucleus of the atom. The higher the atomic number, the heavier the element. Lead has 82 protons, for instance, carbon (which makes up most of your body) has 6 protons so lead is heavier than carbon.

Hopefully this helps.

Cheers
Aj

[Medusa]

Seems normal but still a little unnerving:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/mar/1...monitors-in-w/

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Seems normal but still a little unnerving:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/mar/1...monitors-in-w/

Here in Bay Area, CA, the local stations have been talking-up our radiation warning systems in place. And of course reminding us of the reactor (Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant) down state a ways "a top" an earthquake fault.

Reality....

The link Aj provided has some new info on the crisis-

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Seems normal but still a little unnerving:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/mar/1...monitors-in-w/

I wouldn't make too much of this. It's a precautionary measure. Better to have the radiation detectors in place, debugged, and known to be working BEFORE we might need to have them in place than to scramble at the last minute.

Cheers
Aj

[Corkey]

I would assume that they also need a baseline for normal radiation counts for the area.

[AtLast]

In all of this, I have to look to a "double edged sword" concerning radiation- one (what we fear most for people being exposed in Japan) that causes disease- and the other, wherein radiation is part of the treatment of many cancers.

Radiation therapy, including radioactive iodine therapy has a positive record in the treatment of thyroid cancer. My son was diagnosed with thyroid cancer 2 years ago and it was this very method that is responsible for his cancer free status.

I so hope that today is more of a success for those working at the Japan plants. They are in danger but they are also a part of a larger community of science and technology that does an awful lot of good!

[Medusa]

There is a conversation going on in the next cube and someone is actually considering wrapping their entire house in aluminum foil to "keep from getting fried".

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Medusa

There is a conversation going on in the next cube and someone is actually considering wrapping their entire house in aluminum foil to "keep from getting fried".

Yeah. Tell them that won't help. Aluminum is practically transparent to gamma rays.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Medusa

There is a conversation going on in the next cube and someone is actually considering wrapping their entire house in aluminum foil to "keep from getting fried".

And ...... http://www.ktvb.com/news/health/Japa...118110029.html

[wolfbittenpoet]

So they are planning to cook like tin foil dinners or bake potatoes. This is why we need more science in our schools.

[dreadgeek]

I wanted to add one more thing to the post on radiation.

So, when dealing with radioactivity there's a couple of things to keep in mind:

What kind of radioactive particles are we talking about. (How energetic are they.)
What kind of protection you have.
How long you're exposed.
How often you're exposed.
How intense is the radiation.

So, we spend most of our days bathed in radiation we can see--namely visible light. Visible light, however, is not particularly energetic so it doesn't really hurt us provided the source isn't too strong (which will still hurt your eyes). Radio, infrared and microwaves are even *less* energetic than visible light. We live our lives bathed in those sources of radiation to know real ill effect.* You wouldn't want to be IN a microwave or stand right on top of a very powerful microwave source and, say, camp out there but your cell phone or your radio won't cook you.

Above the visible spectrum, the photons get more and more energetic.** More energetic photons have more opportunity to cause damage and this is why intensity, type of radiation and length of exposure as well as how often you are exposed becomes relevant. DNA has a *remarkable* ability to repair itself. In fact, part of why we are SO resilient as living things is because DNA, by its very nature, has the ability to recreate itself.*** However, even DNA can get overwhelmed. If you are in a, say, field of high gamma radiation for hours at time your body is simply going to have SO many damaged strands of DNA that it will not be able to repair itself effectively. Thus you start to get things like cancers.



* I know people think that cell phones cause problems but they don't. Cell phones are operating in the microwave band and before you think "hey, we use microwaves to cook things!" what is *actually* happening is that the microwaves cause the molecules in the food stuff (like fats and water, both of which are dipole molecules). Think of dipole molecules like little molecular magnets, one side is negative and the other positive. In the presence of an oscillating magnetic field (like microwaves) they will rotate to align themselves with the field. This rotation creates heat and the molecules bump into other molecules which causes them to move. Temperature is the average kinetic energy of molecules or atoms in a substance so the more the molecules rotate, the higher the temperature.

** From radio to gamma rays keep in mind that we are talking abou the same stuff. Gamma rays aren't one thing and radio waves another. Pump enough energy into a radio wave (i.e. increase its frequency) and it will not act 'like' a gamma ray it will *be* a gamma. These are all just photons at different energies. Another word for talking about EMF waves is frequency. To get a sort of visceral feeling for what is happening, use a very familiar experience--hearing a siren. As you get closer to a sound source the pitch rises and the noise level increases. As the sound source retreats the pitch falls and the noise level decreases. The waves get shorter on the approach and longer as you and the siren pull away from one another. Now, what is happening with light is *not* that as you move toward a light source the waves get shorter. Rather, gamma rays are shorter (higher frequency) than radio waves (lower frequency). A low wavelength--literally the length between the peaks and troughs of the wave--in water is less disruptive than a high wavelength. Gamma rays are more disruptive because their higher energy means they are more likely to react with some atom in your body. Visible light rays are just gamma rays slowed down and mellowed out or radio waves with a Type A personality.

*** Part of why DNA is so good at self-repair is because of its very structure. DNA is made up of four amino acids making four 'letters'--ATGC. Now, the interesting thing about DNA is that if one point on the strand is A then its opposite will be T, if one strand is G the opposite will be C. Not might, not sometimes, but IS. This means that as long as one side of the strand is correct, the other side of the strand will be correct. Genes are simply patterns of repetition of those four letters. Another type of damage that radiation can cause are replication errors. The difference between, say, Huntington's chorea and not is, if memory serves, less than a dozen repeats.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

So, I know that a number of folks posted about getting Potassium Iodide and expressing some concern about it being unavailable. I'd like to put your minds at ease.

Potassium iodide works by preventing the thyroid gland from absorbing radioactive iodine-131, an isotope (kind) of iodine produced in nuclear fission reactions. The thyroid will only take up so much iodine, and Potassium iodide is treated by the body as iodine. So, if you saturate the thyroid with Potassium iodide it won't take up (absorb) the radioactive material.

Now, should you be taking it right now? No. Will it hurt you? Probably not*, Potassium iodide has other uses. But at this point, there is simply no need for you to be taking it--at least not if you aren't already taking it. Firstly, the radiation near the nuclear plant has not and, at this point, is not likely to reach the West coast of the United States. As I said last night, in order for there to be a serious risk of a radiation risk on the West coast all of the worst possible things would have to happen in sequence. While it is very scary, it is simply not that big a threat to the continental United States.

You aren't doing yourself any harm--at least none that I could find--but you aren't doing anything helpful either.

*If you are allergic to iodine you should *not* take potassium iodide.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Japanese Earthquake Update (17 March 01:15 UTC)
Injuries or Contamination at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant

Based on a press release from the Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary dated 16 March 2011, the IAEA can confirm the following information about human injuries or contamination at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Please note that this list provides a snapshot of the latest information made available to the IAEA by Japanese authorities. Given the fluid situation at the plant, this information is subject to change.

Injuries

2 TEPCO employees have minor injuries

2 subcontractor employees are injured, one person suffered broken legs and one person whose condition is unknown was transported to the hospital

2 people are missing

2 people were 'suddenly taken ill'

2 TEPCO employees were transported to hospital during the time of donning respiratory protection in the control centre.

4 people (2 TEPCO employees, 2 subcontractor employees) sustained minor injuries due to the explosion at unit 1 on 11 March and were transported to the hospital

11 people (4 TEPCO employees, 3 subcontractor employees and 4 Japanese civil defense workers) were injured due to the explosion at unit 3 on 14 March

Radiological Contamination

17 people (9 TEPCO employees, 8 subcontractor employees) suffered from deposition of radioactive material to their faces, but were not taken to the hospital because of low levels of exposure

One worker suffered from significant exposure during 'vent work,' and was transported to an offsite center

2 policemen who were exposed to radiation were decontaminated

Firemen who were exposed to radiation are under investigation

The IAEA continues to seek information from Japanese authorities about all aspects of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

Temperature of Spent Fuel Pools at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant

Spent fuel that has been removed from a nuclear reactor generates intense heat and is typically stored in a water-filled spent fuel pool to cool it and provide protection from its radioactivity. Water in a spent fuel pool is continuously cooled to remove heat produced by spent fuel assemblies. According to IAEA experts, a typical spent fuel pool temperature is kept below 25 ˚C (77 F) under normal operating conditions. The temperature of a spent fuel pool is maintained by constant cooling, which requires a constant power source.

Given the intense heat and radiation that spent fuel assemblies can generate, spent fuel pools must be constantly checked for water level and temperature. If fuel is no longer covered by water or temperatures reach a boiling point, fuel can become exposed and create a risk of radioactive release. The concern about the spent fuel pools at Fukushima Daiichi is that sources of power to cool the pools may have been compromised.

The IAEA can confirm the following information regarding the temperatures of the spent nuclear fuel pools at Units 4, 5 and 6 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant:


Unit 4
14 March, 10:08 UTC: 84 ˚C (183.2 F)
15 March, 10:00 UTC: 84 ˚C (183.2 F)
16 March, 05:00 UTC: no data

Unit 5
14 March, 10:08 UTC: 59.7 ˚C (139.46 F)
15 March, 10:00 UTC: 60.4 ˚C (140.72 F)
16 March, 05:00 UTC: 62.7 ˚C (144.86 F)

Unit 6
14 March, 10:08 UTC: 58.0 ˚C (136.4 F)
15 March, 10:00 UTC: 58.5 ˚C (137.3 F)
16 March, 05:00 UTC: 60.0 ˚C (140 F)
(All conversions to Fahrenheit were done by me, they are not in the original)

The IAEA is continuing to seek further information about the water levels, temperature and condition of all spent fuel pool facilities at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Cheers
Aj

[Martina]

So they did drop water from a heliocopter. If they can keep them cool till they get that power line up, it sounds like they can avert a total meltdown. At least we can see a scenario that might work now. i find that comforting.

Wild to see the U.S. government basically call the Japanese govt/TEPCO on their lies. But it's public safety, and Japanese officials and corporate folks are notorious for lying to the public.

[AtLast]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51456.html

Nuclear Regulatory Commission sounds alarm on Japan nuclear crisis

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1GowqOT3G

I don't know what to make of the descrepancies announced today by the NRC. I am feeling that it has got to be damn difficult with all of what is going on in Japan to get all info out. Don't know if this is helpful, either in the middle of this.

Apparently, our military over there are going to do testing to see if what we are hearing from Japan is reliable.

Any thoughts- or other info anyone has come across?

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Martina

So they did drop water from a heliocopter. If they can keep them cool till they get that power line up, it sounds like they can avert a total meltdown. At least we can see a scenario that might work now. i find that comforting.

Me too. At this point that would be the best case scenario from where we are right now.

Wild to see the U.S. government basically call the Japanese govt/TEPCO on their lies. But it's public safety, and Japanese officials and corporate folks are notorious for lying to the public.

True on both counts. At this point, I think the Japanese government should expand the exclusion zone.

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51456.html

Nuclear Regulatory Commission sounds alarm on Japan nuclear crisis

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1GowqOT3G

I don't know what to make of the descrepancies announced today by the NRC. I am feeling that it has got to be damn difficult with all of what is going on in Japan to get all info out. Don't know if this is helpful, either in the middle of this.

Apparently, our military over there are going to do testing to see if what we are hearing from Japan is reliable.

Any thoughts- or other info anyone has come across?

Yes, I've heard this and at present, I just don't know what to think. I'm prone to believe the NRC and the IAEA over the Japanese government for one simple reason; neither the NRC or the IAEA gain anything from making things look worse than they already are and *no one* wants a panic. The Japanese government and TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power Co.) have *every* reason to lie. They shouldn't lie but they certainly have a motivation to do so. The NRC is an objective observer in this, even more than the IAEA perhaps.

Tomorrow there will be overflights to assess the radioactivity over and surrounding the site. We'll have a better picture after that happens.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

This is the latest information coming out of IAEA. I will continue to post these briefings as the events unfold until such time as the crisis passes.

Japan Earthquake Update (17 March 2011 11:05 UTC)

Based on a press release from the Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary dated 17 March 2011 04:00 UTC, the IAEA can confirm that the Japanese military carried out four helicopter water droppings over the building of reactor unit 3 of the Fukushima Daichi nuclear power plant.

According to the press release, the droppings took place between 00:48 UTC and 01:00 UTC.



Cheers
Aj

[Camo Eagle]

Originally Posted by suebee

I'm assuming it's not going to just skip British Columbia.

Thanks for this info.

I would figure that all areas in and around the ones I named would be affected.
Sorry I didnt mention all the other countries, as I know many are in the path.
Since my info came from a US Military mtg., we were only discussing the plan for US cities.
Since I was quoting a source, I stuck with repeating the facts, and not adding my opinion.

Originally Posted by suebee

Seems to be a bit of a contradiction to what Camo Eagle's source said, wouldn't you think? However, the article you posted had as it's source a statement given on Sunday. Things have changed considerably since then.

When I posted my info I clearly stated it would "change daily" as the events unfolded. My info was also clearly stated as "in event of a med/lg radiation release". That hasnt happened yet. It wasnt ref to the the current amts in the air.
Even if I was ref to those amts, I wouldnt find my info any more or less "contradictory" than any other post here.

As we've all no doubt seen, just about every story you hear from the news is a CONTRADICTION.
A lot of it is because at this stage of the event, things are still evolving and changing. Then you add the movements of tide & winds, and the variables become many. NO ONE will EVER be able to give you a 100% def answer.

The very next days info mtg. had a different dispersion pattern which included Hawaii.
They also were waiting to get the reports from the experts at NRC folks that were still enroute, not the news channels.

My info came from a Military mtg., that was using a number of "professional" sources & experts, not NEWS stations. Of course we all know that the "news" is always 100% accurate, and they would never be wrong. LOL
I would suggest for the best info, go to the sites of the experts, and not base everything on news accounts.

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

AJ,

Thank you for explaining this to me. I greatly appreciate it.

I am on information overload with the constant news. I am taking time off tomorrow to give myself a break.

Good Idea. Its true that we do get info overloaded after each event. And every station & grp tells it a different way. These news people are less about informing, and more about ratings just like any other TV show. During Katrina I actually watched CNN stage a backdrop to report from. WTH? Like it wasnt already bad enough?

I think we should try to keep some perspective. Perhaps when it gets too much, try prayer, meditation, or whatever your path uses. Japan and her people could sure use it.

Originally Posted by Diva

I haven't heard of any looting at all.....one of the things that reporters have noted time and again has been the patience of the Japanese.....and there was a report of a couple in their 70's.....getting their house ~ which still stood ~ back in order after it was flooded. Their faces were happy, they worked as they spoke with reporters. They wanted to get their house cleaned up quickly, so they could go and help others.

I don't wonder at all if this same thing happened here in the US, there are many who would go for the 'something for nothing' plan.

I honor and admire the Japanese people.

Its a lot about the culture they are raised in. They are a peaceful & spiritual people. Not as much of a me, me, me attitude.
It would be a joy to go there and help. Wow, it might even be appreciated.
Unlike getting shot at, cursed, and spit on for trying to help during disasters in the US.

I think we should all keep in mind, that the US has already been through bigger radiation releases than this one.
The releases of the early atom bomb tests, and 3 mile Island, and prob a few that we never even knew about.

[dreadgeek]

According to both the BBC and Reuters TEPCO officials have reported to the IAEA that they are going to connect power up to unit 2 after they are done spraying unit 3. If that is the case that's the first piece of really good news we've had. Power means pumping and pumping means water.

I'll update as I find out more.

Cheers
Aj