For the T-Femmes and SOFFAs...

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Hudson

First, I am wondering, because I need to understand, if the transsensual femmes here include in their attraction trans men who have not yet, are uncertain, are unable, or do not wish to seek physical transition. Or are we talking exclusively about men who have completed or are well into their transitions or those who fully intend to?

Hudson, fyi, there is only one "s" in Transensual. It is not a direct cognate of Transsexual. When Rhiannon invented the word, she was looking for something that would fit in, soundwise, but that would also describe us separately.

Maybe that's part of the problem. What's it been, only ten years now since she invented it? Her definition was narrow; she only meant the direct partner of a Transsexual man... but in these ten years this word has grown and grown to fit our whole community. It no longer carries this narrow exclusive meaning; it's broadened to include all manner of people.

There are, of course, Transensual Butches. The focus in this thread is on Femmes, but I think it's always wise to remember that Butches can partner with Transmen OR with Transwomen--and so can Femmes.

And yes, speaking as a Transensual Femme, of course I am attracted to any Transsexual man, transitioned or not. I am also attracted to the whole spectrum of Transgendered Butches.

Originally Posted by Hudson

I think it's important to know if transsensual femmes make these distinctions or not in order to pinpoint a fetishism, if one exists. It's also an important distinction to be made if we're to know if transsensual femme stands alone on its own.

That doesn't make any sense to me, Hudson. There are Transensual Femmes who are like me and are attracted to the whole spectrum of TG Butches as well as Transmen in any stage of transition. There are Transensual Femmes who are attracted only to transitioned Transmen. There are Transensual Femmes who are attracted only to Transmen BEFORE they finish transition. There are any number of combinations of all of the above. It isn't a flat, one-dimensional identity. It can't be pinned immobile to a board like a smothered butterfly.

Originally Posted by Hudson

But being trans is only part of who I am just as being a femme or a girlfriend or a mother or artist or mechanic is only part of who she is. And so it's concerning (to me) if someone is focused on only this part of who I am as much for her as it is for me.

As far as I can tell, the only people who are focused on "only that part of you" are the people who are saying Transensual=fetishizer. Those of us who actually LIVE this life? You better be a whole person, mister, or you aren't going to get a second look.

Speaking she quickly disclaims only for me, of course... but really shocked if it's any different for any of the Femmes in this thread, no matter how we identify....

Originally Posted by Hudson

So when this topic comes up, I always have to ask myself, 'Would she choose a misogynist, sexist prick trans man over a feminist-ally, sensitive cissexual man?"

That's a ridiculous idea. I personally would not choose a misogynist sexist prick of ANY stripe--been there, done that, never repeating that mistake again, burned the t-shirt.

Originally Posted by Hudson

(or any less extreme example) If the answer is yes, or that she would go out and seek another trans man specifically because he's trans and would not consider a cissexual man who comes along with all the same qualities she seeks, I know she has put me in some special category (one in which I likely don't even place myself) and perhaps does not see me as truly male and we are both going to be unhappy (most especially if she's made this distinction because of some aversion she has to cissexual men).

This is a common prejudice in the Trans community. It does not allow for the variety of female attraction. Just as there are as many varieties of Transmen as there are of csimen, there are as many varieties of Femmes as there are of Transmen.

If a Transman needs a partner who is also attracted to cismen in order to believe that she will validate him as a man, then I would suggest he would be wise to find someone who was at least bisexual, if not pansexual. It's possible to find both, whether in or out of the Transensual Femme community.

Originally Posted by Hudson

And I want to know that she appreciates my past - the pain and the struggle as much as the 'good things' like my female upbringing/conditioning and realize that, the painful irony, for both of us, is that those things that make me desirable to her have also been a source of a tremendous amount of torment. She has to love and understand all of that. And I imagine that's extremely difficult for a woman to navigate and accept her own desires around that truth. I don't know.

Well, no; it's not.

It's hard to watch y'all suffer, hard to know there's a limited amount any of us can do to ease it. It's hard to put up with mood swings from incorrect doses of T. It's hard, sometimes, to take a backseat to some guys' self-absorption in the early stages of transitioning.... but to love you? To accept you wholeheartedly for who you are and where you've been? To walk the path into where you're going and who you'll be?

That might be scary the first time, but on the whole, it's easy and natural.

Mind you, I do speak from the vantage point of a lot of thought and several year's experience. It might be harder for someone who has only previously identified as a Lesbian or as a Femme, whose partner is newly transitioning---BUT the difficulty there will most likely be the same as it is in the beginning for most of us, I think, dealing with one's internalized transphobia, and then dealing with the ramifications [a partner's] transition will have on her family and community. Those two things are the major themes that seem to run through the soffa community as I have known it: loving you is easy, dealing with our own community is hard.

After that, of course, there's the individual differences in couples; major themes are, by necessity, pretty general. Any couple can have trouble based on their own personalities and pre-existing relationship stresses.... but that's hardly unique to couples with a transitioning partner.

Originally Posted by Hudson

The question BullDog raised is not the same (to me) as with women who prefer to date/partner with stone butches who are cissexual.

Aren't too many of them, honey. *shrugs* By far the majority of the Stone Butches I have known have had some varying degrees of GID or have identified as male. Most of the Stones I have known--even including some of the female-identified Stone Butches--have really wrestled with whether to transition. Many of them HAVE transitioned, so many that at one point I actually thought there was a link between a Butch being Stone and being Transsexual, as if the one might be a predictor of the other.

Originally Posted by Hudson

The identity of stone femme, depending on who you ask, carries a lot of different meanings. ...... I imagine some stone femmes see the identity as their gender.

Indeed *smiling* some of us do.

Originally Posted by Hudson

Bottom line is, none of this has to do with a person's gender and/or the alteration of physical self in respect to gender and being visible as such.

If I were not able to accept any gender a Stone Butch might express; if I were not able to accept top surgery or T--and some Stone Butches do either or both; if I were not able to accept the needs of any Stone Butch to explore both GID and whether or not he or she needed to transition; if I were not able to accept a Stone Butch's need to bind, pack, and pass as a man in the world, I would be a pretty lonely Stone Femme, since these are all common in the Stone community.

Transsexual men do not have a lock on the process, darlin. It is, from my experience, the same process that plays out among many GenderQueer and Third Gender Butches, as well.

In my personal experience, the most common theme among Butches of all identities is whether or not they should transition. This may be a skewed experience; it may be that because Butches usually find me someone who is able to accept and validate them no matter their ID, someone who is safe to say almost anything to, that I hear more about transitioning issues and questions than about other issues; it may be that other people would hear more about some other issues.... but I tell you truly that I have not met many Butches who have not had to wrestle the question to the ground.

What this means for me as a Transensual Femme is that the issues are not so different between Butches and Transsexual men; only the outcome is, and I am lucky enough to be able to walk the path with someone whether he transitions or not, whether he is a Butch or a Transsexual man, because I see him as he needs to be seen.

I suppose that's at the heart of the definition of Transensual for me: it describes my ability to see you, not as your body, but as YOU, your true self.

Call that a fetish if you will. Call me invalid if you will.