The Gendering of the Young

Xavi · 04-27-2011, 08:03 AM

Word clouds are awesome, and really useful. I'm very visual, and those bring home to me in a super direct way the things that disturb me the most about how toys are gendered.

Ana and I have thought about how we would raise children and struggled a lot with trying to figure out how to raise kids in a way that would most enable them to organically and unafraid-ly (is that a word? I don't think so.) express their own identity. So far, I think green and yellow are really good primary colors for baby rooms and what not.

I don't have the links on hand, but I've read about adults identifying all babies and children as boys unless they have some sort of really obvious female or feminine constructed traits or accessories, like pink hair bows and clothing, or very long hair.

I think what I struggle with the most about this, aside from what would happen when my kids go to school and are exposed to lots of gender policing from adults and other kids, is that sort of gender essentialist phase that lots of kids seem to go through when they're somewhere in between toddlers and in junior high. I don't know if that's really a part of how young brains process and learn about sex and gender, or more about the things they learn from other people.

By gender essentialist phase, I mean that phase where a lot of female children decide they're fairy princesses because they're a girl and male children decide they're rambo because they're a boy. Obviously this has a lot to do with marketing as well, as the word clouds show. Mostly this all makes me want to get a degree in psychology or something before raising kids.

EnderD_503 · 04-28-2011, 02:33 PM

@Greyson's All I Want For Christmas Post:

I'm not sure. I think my feelings are mixed on the advice Prudence gave. On the one hand, I understand why she would suggest that the boy only wear his skirt at home/at grandparent's place and so on. On the other hand, I think if a boy wants to wear a skirt and still be a boy then I think other kids and adults as well should be exposed to that. Sure, explain to him that some people might not have nice things to say about his wearing a skirt, but if decided that he wanted to wear the skirt to school...maybe talk to his teachers about it? That way they at least know what's going on and can look out for him.

Reminds me of the film Ma vie en rose a little. But yes, I think it's important not to shame kids who might want to dress outside typical "gendered clothing" and I understand that Prudence was trying to avoid that and commend her for it. At the same time, I think limiting the time he could wear his skirt might still have that "shaming" effect...as though there is something wrong with it that he'd only be able to wear it hidden from the view of his classmates.

ana · 04-28-2011, 03:35 PM

I agree, it's super disturbing how kids' things are so very gendered.

I read that column the post above me refers to, and I was a bit conflicted. I get where the author was going with the whole "wear the skirt in safer spaces" advice, but it also seems kinda crappy. I mean, it's like saying to your kid, "Yay! You're awesome! Be whoever you are! Umm, well, unless you're here... or here ... How about we stick to grandma's house?"

At the same time, the super protective femmeness comes out in me, and I'm determined to protect the beautiful, awesome, queerness of kids from the world so that they can be who they are and figure out where they fit without the jerks raining on their pride parade.

Soon · 06-08-2011, 08:52 AM

Family Describes Anti-Sissy Therapy

Nat · 07-11-2011, 08:40 PM

A Swedish Preschool Attempts to Eliminate Gender

DapperButch · 07-11-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

A Swedish Preschool Attempts to Eliminate Gender

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...ead.php?t=3435

blush · 07-11-2011, 09:20 PM

Yanno, it seems like every time I hear about boys wanting skirts or to wear heel or boas, it leads into a much deeper discussion of their sexuality or gender.

Why. These questions aren't asked if a girl wants a dump truck or hates pink. Studies aren't done to probe if girls who like pants grow up to be lesbians. No one seemed to ask this child why he wanted a skirt. Maybe he thought they were more comfortable.

To me, it speaks to an undercurrent in our society that we lessen all things girly. A boy liking girly things is symptomatic of a deeper issue. A girl liking boy things is just cute.

Madonna said it best: "because you think being a girl is degrading"

Slater · 07-11-2011, 10:32 PM

I think that Swedish pre-school is on the right track. I've been thinking lately that really there should be a single gender label/pronoun that is used exclusively and universally for very young children. And there might even reasonably be a transitional set of gender identities between this single young-child neutral gender and the full array of adult genders.

--Slater

greeneyedgrrl · 07-11-2011, 11:42 PM

I <3 that idea!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slater

I think that Swedish pre-school is on the right track. I've been thinking lately that really there should be a single gender label/pronoun that is used exclusively and universally for very young children. And there might even reasonably be a transitional set of gender identities between this single young-child neutral gender and the full array of adult genders.

--Slater

06-08-2011, 08:52 AM	#4
Soon Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: attached Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: . Posts: 6,896 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,046 Thanked 13,093 Times in 3,386 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	disturbing Family Describes Anti-Sissy Therapy

07-11-2011, 08:40 PM	#5
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	A Swedish Preschool Attempts to Eliminate Gender __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

07-11-2011, 09:20 PM	#7
blush Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: I'm with goofy. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 911 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 962 Thanked 2,375 Times in 616 Posts Rep Power: 15632318	Yanno, it seems like every time I hear about boys wanting skirts or to wear heel or boas, it leads into a much deeper discussion of their sexuality or gender. Why. These questions aren't asked if a girl wants a dump truck or hates pink. Studies aren't done to probe if girls who like pants grow up to be lesbians. No one seemed to ask this child why he wanted a skirt. Maybe he thought they were more comfortable. To me, it speaks to an undercurrent in our society that we lessen all things girly. A boy liking girly things is symptomatic of a deeper issue. A girl liking boy things is just cute. Madonna said it best: "because you think being a girl is degrading" __________________ "We never forget those who make us blush." Jean-Francois de la Harpe

04-27-2011, 08:03 AM	#1
Xavi Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Stone Butch Preferred Pronoun?: she/her Relationship Status: Partnered! Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: where the wild things are Posts: 7 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7 Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts Rep Power: 0	Word clouds are awesome, and really useful. I'm very visual, and those bring home to me in a super direct way the things that disturb me the most about how toys are gendered. Ana and I have thought about how we would raise children and struggled a lot with trying to figure out how to raise kids in a way that would most enable them to organically and unafraid-ly (is that a word? I don't think so.) express their own identity. So far, I think green and yellow are really good primary colors for baby rooms and what not. I don't have the links on hand, but I've read about adults identifying all babies and children as boys unless they have some sort of really obvious female or feminine constructed traits or accessories, like pink hair bows and clothing, or very long hair. I think what I struggle with the most about this, aside from what would happen when my kids go to school and are exposed to lots of gender policing from adults and other kids, is that sort of gender essentialist phase that lots of kids seem to go through when they're somewhere in between toddlers and in junior high. I don't know if that's really a part of how young brains process and learn about sex and gender, or more about the things they learn from other people. By gender essentialist phase, I mean that phase where a lot of female children decide they're fairy princesses because they're a girl and male children decide they're rambo because they're a boy. Obviously this has a lot to do with marketing as well, as the word clouds show. Mostly this all makes me want to get a degree in psychology or something before raising kids.

04-28-2011, 02:33 PM	#2
EnderD_503 Member How Do You Identify?: Queer, trans guy, butch Preferred Pronoun?: Male pronouns Relationship Status: Relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 1,329 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,090 Thanked 3,879 Times in 1,023 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	@Greyson's All I Want For Christmas Post: I'm not sure. I think my feelings are mixed on the advice Prudence gave. On the one hand, I understand why she would suggest that the boy only wear his skirt at home/at grandparent's place and so on. On the other hand, I think if a boy wants to wear a skirt and still be a boy then I think other kids and adults as well should be exposed to that. Sure, explain to him that some people might not have nice things to say about his wearing a skirt, but if decided that he wanted to wear the skirt to school...maybe talk to his teachers about it? That way they at least know what's going on and can look out for him. Reminds me of the film Ma vie en rose a little. But yes, I think it's important not to shame kids who might want to dress outside typical "gendered clothing" and I understand that Prudence was trying to avoid that and commend her for it. At the same time, I think limiting the time he could wear his skirt might still have that "shaming" effect...as though there is something wrong with it that he'd only be able to wear it hidden from the view of his classmates.

04-28-2011, 03:35 PM	#3
ana Junior Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: She/Her/Hers Relationship Status: Taken! Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Somewhere over the [queer] rainbow Posts: 15 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29 Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts Rep Power: 59795	I agree, it's super disturbing how kids' things are so very gendered. I read that column the post above me refers to, and I was a bit conflicted. I get where the author was going with the whole "wear the skirt in safer spaces" advice, but it also seems kinda crappy. I mean, it's like saying to your kid, "Yay! You're awesome! Be whoever you are! Umm, well, unless you're here... or here ... How about we stick to grandma's house?" At the same time, the super protective femmeness comes out in me, and I'm determined to protect the beautiful, awesome, queerness of kids from the world so that they can be who they are and figure out where they fit without the jerks raining on their pride parade.

07-11-2011, 10:32 PM	#8
Slater Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 147 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 41 Thanked 793 Times in 129 Posts Rep Power: 14631970	I think that Swedish pre-school is on the right track. I've been thinking lately that really there should be a single gender label/pronoun that is used exclusively and universally for very young children. And there might even reasonably be a transitional set of gender identities between this single young-child neutral gender and the full array of adult genders. --Slater