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Old 11-11-2009, 10:28 AM   #1
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I have a question. Lately when Nick and Gryph and I have been out in public, it has seemed to me that people have been going out of their way to call us "ladies."

*snip*

So anyhow, here's my question. Does this happen to you in your area, or is it just the Midwest US; and if it does happen where you are, does it happen to you more when you are with a Femme than if you are alone?

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Greyson, this is what I was wondering. Now I'm wondering if, in the company of men, Transmen might not have this strange situation... in other words, this thing which has always happened around me, this thing which somehow makes strangers think that any Butch I am with is my sister rather than my lover, is this "the-thing-which-makes-me-invisible-as-a-Femme" at work in yet one more way to make people "un-see" a Transman?

*snip*

If it is, then I can finally understand the knee-jerk reaction some Transmen have had to the idea of staying in the community, and the insistence some Transmen have had on being with straight women rather than Femmes.

*snip*

Am I on the right track here? Or am I way out in left field?
Hi Bit...

I don't think it's a regional thing at all. From *my* experiences, I was not perceived as male when I was out-n-about because I was read as female. It didn't matter if it was out west, on the east coast, down in Texas, or up in Minnesota.

I had top surgery 16 months prior to starting T. During that time, I very often was sir'd upon initial contact........and then I spoke.

Prior to that, I bound my chest. If someone picked up on that fact, then they didn't even need my voice to "clue them in".

It didn't matter how I dressed, carried myself, or wore my hair. They read me as female, so I was "ma'am" and "lady". And what really sucked is that I don't recall thinking that anyone was *ever* being disrespectful. Quite the opposite, actually.

For me, these were my experiences whether or not I was alone, with family, with guys, or with femmes. It just didn't matter.

So I don't know that *that* would be the reason a transman would opt out of the company of other queers and/or femmes. Just my opinion, of course...

Respectfully,
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:10 AM   #2
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I'd like to know what your families thought; how they responded to your changes.

Anyone is welcome to answer this.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:33 AM   #3
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I'd like to know what your families thought; how they responded to your changes.

Anyone is welcome to answer this.
Well, I'm lucky and unlucky. My mom's family (who I grew up with mostly) have been very supportive (I have 3 uncles and 2 aunts along with my grandmother and a 2nd cousin). My grandmother was the only one who said she'd refuse to use anything but my birthname and gender. I think when she saw how happy and content I was at my aunt's wedding this summer she softened. Certainly they all said that they loved me and were supportive but that they might need time to get used to it. My aunt (the one who got married) and my cousin have been the most supportive of me. My other aunt (who was closer to my mom's age) is a little more conservative and taking a little longer but still supportive.

My grandmother, being a nurse, was concerned about the medical side of things but when I let them know about the regular lab work and doctor's visits they were more supportive. Out of the blue, my grandmother started using "Linus" rather than my birthname during our online Scrabble games. I guess she's starting to come around. I suspect she still doesn't understand or like it but still loves me and just wants me happy. I don't see my family that often (maybe 1-2 a year, if that).

My father and his wife... well, they've never really been supportive and he wasn't in my view of life until I was in my late teens (largely due to court orders and not necessarily something he choose). But his conservative Christian background, I'm sure, tells him not to agree to my path. He has said that as long as I'm happy that's all that matters. Again, I don't see him or hear from him that often. I have a cousin on that side of the family that I occasionally hear from and her mother, my aunt/father's sister, does reach out now and again to me.

Transitioning as an adult, I think, can be somewhat easier because you are living your own life and making your own decisions.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:37 AM   #4
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I'd like to know what your families thought; how they responded to your changes.

Anyone is welcome to answer this.
Neither of my parents are alive and weren't when I started my transition.

I have a large number of siblings and loads of nieces and nephews, etc... While I know in my heart of hearts that many of them had certain feelings of not understanding, all have shown (at least to *me*) acceptance and love.

I have not shared real-time space with my family since I started T (mostly because I'm not real big on flying), but I share photos. Not much is said; the few comments I've heard are mostly along the lines of "you look really good".

I know it's hard for them and that they struggle with just how to celebrate/acknowledge/question the physical changes. They're loving and respectful, and I appreciate that.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:53 AM   #5
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Neither of my parents are alive and weren't when I started my transition.

I have a large number of siblings and loads of nieces and nephews, etc... While I know in my heart of hearts that many of them had certain feelings of not understanding, all have shown (at least to *me*) acceptance and love.

I have not shared real-time space with my family since I started T (mostly because I'm not real big on flying), but I share photos. Not much is said; the few comments I've heard are mostly along the lines of "you look really good".

I know it's hard for them and that they struggle with just how to celebrate/acknowledge/question the physical changes. They're loving and respectful, and I appreciate that.
I don't know how I'm going to handle mine. None of them has a clue about gender transition or reassignment. I got in a fist fight with my uncle who called me every name in the book and then some as we rolled on the floor fighting. My father disowned me briefly until we reconciled this past year. This was just because I was gay—can you imagine the response to reassignment?

On the other hand, my aunt was way cool about me telling her I was transgendered. But to physically change is another matter entirely. My mother is dead and my dad is really aging. My entire extended family knows I'm gay, and there are many of them. I came out to my best friends and the idea of being male didn't surprise them at all. I don't need top surgery other than keyhole. I've never had to bind or anything like that, and I'm grateful.

I think its going to be imperative to join support groups as well as therapy.


I still want to leave the question open here on the thread as well as, does your work know?
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:01 PM   #6
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<snip>

This was just because I was gay—can you imagine the response to reassignment?

<snip>

I still want to leave the question open here on the thread as well as, does your work know?
I've heard from some transguys who said that their parents were against them being gay but when they started transitioning it was ok since now they would "appear" normal (hetreonormative relationship appearance concept I think). Hopefully they will be supportive or, at the least, respectful.

My work knows and has been extremely supportive. In fact, I was surprised that even the most ardent born-again Christian was. He was very respectful (I suspect he may not fully understand the whys) and we, when meeting up, still have our discussions about the Bible and such. I know I'm extremely lucky to be in a work environment that is so supportive. Even some of my clients know and are very supportive. Their support comes from me doing an excellent job, regardless of my personal life. (which is how it's supposed to be, no?)
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:56 PM   #7
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Thank you, Thinker!
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And what really sucked is that I don't recall thinking that anyone was *ever* being disrespectful. Quite the opposite, actually.
This is what I've been seeing; it is so PAINFULLY obvious that they're "being respectful" yanno?

Thank you for your input on the whole "with or without a Femme" question. I think the voice issue plagues many Transmen until the T lowers their voices or gives them facial hair, one or the other... but I do have a friend who is talking about going to a vocal coach and I think that might be a good way to handle the voice issue as well.

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Old 11-11-2009, 03:13 PM   #8
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Thank you, Thinker!


This is what I've been seeing; it is so PAINFULLY obvious that they're "being respectful" yanno?

Thank you for your input on the whole "with or without a Femme" question. I think the voice issue plagues many Transmen until the T lowers their voices or gives them facial hair, one or the other... but I do have a friend who is talking about going to a vocal coach and I think that might be a good way to handle the voice issue as well.
I don't have a voice issue. I'm called sir on the phone. And my oldest and dearest friend has a voice so low she sounds like man always. And she's as straight and feminine as it gets.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:26 PM   #9
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I still want to leave the question open here on the thread as well as, does your work know?
I work for myself right now, so it's a non-issue. It was also very intentionally set up that way.

My entire career prior to my transition (fresh out of college and for the next 21 years) was in K-12 public education. When I decided to move forward with my transition, I was out of the schools and working in central office.

There wasn't one ounce of my being that believed I would be able to announce my transition and carry it out in that position (even though I wasn't physically in a school at that time).

I was a top-notch employee, so maybe it would not have been an issue. I don't know. I do know that the school system I was in did not protect individuals on the basis of gender identity (or sexual orientation, for that matter), and I had a sickening feeling that they would find some way to either get rid of me or push me out.

Disgusting, I know; but it was a feeling I just couldn't shake.

So my lady and I made other plans for me and for 'us', and that is the life we are living now.
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