"Becoming Chaz"

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I wondered how our trans guys might feel about this. It needs to be addressed, but it is sensitive due to stereotyping (the whole "roid-rage" misinformation). My impression has been that it does vary individually and also, some guys really do a lot of work around this. They prepare via support networks and groups. A lot of trans men I know in real-time also can get angry about "excuses" being made about this because they feel it is something one has to take personal responsibility for and that if someone has a bad temper to begin with- it ain't all the T. might not be the T at all. We all have to work on our patience and temper if we find ours is volitile, not just transmen.

It seems like most of you do feel this documentary is one to recommend to people- am I right about this? I don't want to tell someone it is helpful and accurate based upon my take on it as a non-trans person. Also, it has an awful lot to take in- is it the best one available for people that really have very little knowledge on the subject? Would like opinions on this. Thanks.

I wouldn't say that the video supplied "information" on the process or anything. I think it was just more about Chaz's experience with some information thrown in. Meaning, the focus was about him and his process, not specifically about how to get on T or set up for surgery or anything like that.

I think it depends on what your goals are in seeking out a documentary on transgendered/transexual people. For example, if I was going to transition, I would probably choose the Lisa Ling trans documentary to share with my mother over this one, as I think that it gives more of a "feel" of the process and more information. But, if I wanted to "normalize" trans life I might choose this doc.

I dunno, those are my thoughts this morning. I may need more coffee.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I wondered how our trans guys might feel about this. It needs to be addressed, but it is sensitive due to stereotyping (the whole "roid-rage" misinformation). My impression has been that it does vary individually and also, some guys really do a lot of work around this. They prepare via support networks and groups. A lot of trans men I know in real-time also can get angry about "excuses" being made about this because they feel it is something one has to take personal responsibility for and that if someone has a bad temper to begin with- it ain't all the T. might not be the T at all. We all have to work on our patience and temper if we find ours is volitile, not just transmen.

It seems like most of you do feel this documentary is one to recommend to people- am I right about this? I don't want to tell someone it is helpful and accurate based upon my take on it as a non-trans person. Also, it has an awful lot to take in- is it the best one available for people that really have very little knowledge on the subject? Would like opinions on this. Thanks.

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I wouldn't say that the video supplied "information" on the process or anything. I think it was just more about Chaz's experience with some information thrown in. Meaning, the focus was about him and his process, not specifically about how to get on T or set up for surgery or anything like that.

I think it depends on what your goals are in seeking out a documentary on transgendered/transexual people. For example, if I was going to transition, I would probably choose the Lisa Ling trans documentary to share with my mother over this one, as I think that it gives more of a "feel" of the process and more information. But, if I wanted to "normalize" trans life I might choose this doc.

I dunno, those are my thoughts this morning. I may need more coffee.

I agree with Dapper. This really was about "Becoming Chaz".....which is what he set out to do. In the documentary, his surgery is already set up.....pre- and post-concerns already addressed. In another segment, he puts on a suit and meets up with an advocate.......sometime later, his corrected license arrives in the mail. (Just to name two examples...)

***As a matter of fact, I remember getting a kind of wide-eyed look during his pre-surgical consult because it was sooooo rushed and vague (in my opinion, of course). I kind of think that was for the sake of the cameras/film and that Chaz had already spent some time with Dr. B.

So there wasn't anything in there about *how* to start and move through those processes. And I'm not suggesting that there should have been; that wasn't the focus of this particular documentary.

There are lists upon lists on the internet that a questioning person can use as resources to begin the work of creating his or her plan for transition. That's would I recommend........that and sitting down with someone who has been through it so they can answer some questions and help as the individual formulates his or her own plan.

[citybutch]

I had mixed feelings about the documentary. I admire Chaz because of his courage to really bring FtM out to the forefront of the conversation ( documentary, conversations with Oprah, article in NYTimes, etc). I think it has taken much courage to go through this transition in front of the world. I know Chaz has had media exposure his whole life... and that it may have been impossible to do this in private... but I still admire his embrace of it... Amazing...

In many ways I lost respect for Chaz though... I know depression, I know wanting to sit on a couch for a year playing video games, I know emotional pain. We all do. There were times I felt Chaz is a bit spoiled... He has a girlfriend who is working through a Master's degree and he sat on the couch for a YEAR playing video games? There is so much to be done on this planet... I don't know what Chaz does for work.. if he does work... I know he is an activist at this point as a transman... but besides that I don't see much activity ... and maybe it was just my perception.. but what an opportunity for activist work! Chaz has a beautiful home.. That KITCHEN ... omgoodness. Clearly, he has assets... perhaps it is Cher's, I don't know. Perhaps he has made a living of his own... I don't know. But there were times I was just sitting there saying to myself "Buck up Chaz... get off the couch, stop bitching, and DO something." I know this video is one way. I know speaking at rallies, is one way, I know going through the transition in such a public way is one way... but there are many of us who do ALL of this and still have full time jobs. And if he IS doing stuff... I wish it had been included in the complexity of Becoming Chaz

Just was what I was thinking during the documentary....

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by citybutch

I had mixed feelings about the documentary. I admire Chaz because of his courage to really bring FtM out to the forefront of the conversation ( documentary, conversations with Oprah, article in NYTimes, etc). I think it has taken much courage to go through this transition in front of the world. I know Chaz has had media exposure his whole life... and that it may have been impossible to do this in private... but I still admire his embrace of it... Amazing...

In many ways I lost respect for Chaz though... I know depression, I know wanting to sit on a couch for a year playing video games, I know emotional pain. We all do. There were times I felt Chaz is a bit spoiled... He has a girlfriend who is working through a Master's degree and he sat on the couch for a YEAR playing video games? There is so much to be done on this planet... I don't know what Chaz does for work.. if he does work... I know he is an activist at this point as a transman... but besides that I don't see much activity ... and maybe it was just my perception.. but what an opportunity for activist work! Chaz has a beautiful home.. That KITCHEN ... omgoodness. Clearly, he has assets... perhaps it is Cher's, I don't know. Perhaps he has made a living of his own... I don't know. But there were times I was just sitting there saying to myself "Buck up Chaz... get off the couch, stop bitching, and DO something." I know this video is one way. I know speaking at rallies, is one way, I know going through the transition in such a public way is one way... but there are many of us who do ALL of this and still have full time jobs. And if he IS doing stuff... I wish it had been included in the complexity of Becoming Chaz

Just was what I was thinking during the documentary....

I too had similar thoughts as I took in the detail of his home, the neighborhoods, his friends and family. I like Thinker was surprised that Chaz borrowed the money for top surgery from his sponsor. The video game thing I could not relate too but sitting on a couch for one year I could.

There was a period in my life a few years back that it all just fell apart for me. I am grateful that because of the career I have chosen, I was able to take the time off. I suspect that Chaz has privilege most of us here do not. His privilege, "celebrity" has provided for the opportunity to bring Trans people and issues to the consciousness of main stream.

I am concerned that many will think that all Transmen think, feel and experience their gender identity in the same fashion. I wish there was greater discussion of the various shades of "Trans" under the umbrella of Transmen. I realize the documentary is about becoming Chaz, but in all of the various interviews and media blitz taking place right now, I have not heard anything about this is Chaz's experience and there are so many that have a different perspective. After all does mainstream take for granted that all cisgendered men are replicas of one another?

After all is said and done, IMO, I believe his documentary will bring greater communication and build bridges that assist in making this a better world.

[violaine]

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/10/136177...y-becomes-chaz

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Greyson

I too had similar thoughts as I took in the detail of his home, the neighborhoods, his friends and family. I like Thinker was surprised that Chaz borrowed the money for top surgery from his sponsor. The video game thing I could not relate too but sitting on a couch for one year I could.

There was a period in my life a few years back that it all just fell apart for me. I am grateful that because of the career I have chosen, I was able to take the time off. I suspect that Chaz has privilege most of us here do not. His privilege, "celebrity" has provided for the opportunity to bring Trans people and issues to the consciousness of main stream.

I am concerned that many will think that all Transmen think, feel and experience their gender identity in the same fashion. I wish there was greater discussion of the various shades of "Trans" under the umbrella of Transmen. I realize the documentary is about becoming Chaz, but in all of the various interviews and media blitz taking place right now, I have not heard anything about this is Chaz's experience and there are so many that have a different perspective. After all does mainstream take for granted that all cisgendered men are replicas of one another?

After all is said and done, IMO, I believe his documentary will bring greater communication and build bridges that assist in making this a better world.

Your not the only one: http://www.autostraddle.com/chaz-bon...-for-me-88312/

It's interesting to see what's happening on Chaz's forums. I've been surprised (or perhaps not so much) to see all of the "Cher" fans starting to show and wanting to talk to Chaz. There have been some interesting side-effects, including the link above being discussed.

I've also noticed people tying Chaz' transition to what it's like to being bi, bdsm (one person said that they identified as "being bdsm" since age 5) and so on. Kind of surreal in some ways..

[Corkey]

What I find and have thanks to my wife, is that his girlfriend has issues to work through as well. We didn't get to see much of what it means for her, and I think that was kind of self serving for Chaz. Often in these threads we discuss what is happening for the FtM, and totally forget that they have partners, when they do, and we skim right over what is going on for the partner.
I just want us all to be aware it isn't all about us, there are other people in our lives that matter just as much as our finding our way in this world.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Thinker

I agree with Dapper. This really was about "Becoming Chaz".....which is what he set out to do. In the documentary, his surgery is already set up.....pre- and post-concerns already addressed. In another segment, he puts on a suit and meets up with an advocate.......sometime later, his corrected license arrives in the mail. (Just to name two examples...)

***As a matter of fact, I remember getting a kind of wide-eyed look during his pre-surgical consult because it was sooooo rushed and vague (in my opinion, of course). I kind of think that was for the sake of the cameras/film and that Chaz had already spent some time with Dr. B.

So there wasn't anything in there about *how* to start and move through those processes. And I'm not suggesting that there should have been; that wasn't the focus of this particular documentary.

There are lists upon lists on the internet that a questioning person can use as resources to begin the work of creating his or her plan for transition. That's would I recommend........that and sitting down with someone who has been through it so they can answer some questions and help as the individual formulates his or her own plan.

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I wouldn't say that the video supplied "information" on the process or anything. I think it was just more about Chaz's experience with some information thrown in. Meaning, the focus was about him and his process, not specifically about how to get on T or set up for surgery or anything like that.

I think it depends on what your goals are in seeking out a documentary on transgendered/transexual people. For example, if I was going to transition, I would probably choose the Lisa Ling trans documentary to share with my mother over this one, as I think that it gives more of a "feel" of the process and more information. But, if I wanted to "normalize" trans life I might choose this doc.

I dunno, those are my thoughts this morning. I may need more coffee.

Thank you both. Yes, "the audience" is what I was thinking about, even though I think this doc has some real merit. I did think about some people in my life/family that I have tried to "educate" about the full range of gender- and realized this one would be too much for them (TMI). They would represent a "general audience."

Also, LOL... I do want a "stamp of approval" from transpeople if I am going to recommend something to friends, family about the subject. It's hard- I do a lot of eye-rolling myself with comments from people outside of our community.

[Andrew, Jr.]

After watching the documentary, and then all the late night shows he was on, I am a bit puzzled over his finances. Rosie and I talked about it and thought maybe his home was paid for by the residuals he rec'd from his inheritance from his father (IF he got anything at all or if it went to his stepmother). He is driving a pretty decent SUV, has a nice yard, pool, hot tub, and the clothes. Then says he had to borrow money for his top surgery. Did he have to borrow money for his hrt and his psych. therapy as well? Yes, he lives in the public eye, and had to go thru his transition publically. However, what is his job? What is his g/f job since graduating from her master's program? How does he pay for his trips to go to The Spirit Conference?

I also wonder if his docs were doing the services "pro-bono" because of his celebrity status and knowing about the documentary they were going to be involved in it. The same for his attorney being present for the top surgery. That bill must have been nothing short of huge.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

After watching the documentary, and then all the late night shows he was on, I am a bit puzzled over his finances. Rosie and I talked about it and thought maybe his home was paid for by the residuals he rec'd from his inheritance from his father (IF he got anything at all or if it went to his stepmother). He is driving a pretty decent SUV, has a nice yard, pool, hot tub, and the clothes. Then says he had to borrow money for his top surgery. Did he have to borrow money for his hrt and his psych. therapy as well? Yes, he lives in the public eye, and had to go thru his transition publically. However, what is his job? What is his g/f job since graduating from her master's program? How does he pay for his trips to go to The Spirit Conference?

I also wonder if his docs were doing the services "pro-bono" because of his celebrity status and knowing about the documentary they were going to be involved in it. The same for his attorney being present for the top surgery. That bill must have been nothing short of huge.

The attorney was a friend of his, and as far as his finances go, its none of our business. I sure wouldn't want people questioning where I got my money. He may or may not received any monies from his dad's estate, but still, really we've no expectation of this knowledge and he doesn't owe anyone any explanation.

[Rockinonahigh]

I watched Chazz on Piers Morgan last night the show was pretty good,unfourtunatly I didnt see the doc cause I dont get own.I was surprised as anyone about that he had to borrow $$ for top surgery,my son watched most of the show with me and the things he ask me were long time in comeing between us.One thing he ask was did I feel the same way about my cheaticels as Chazz..I said ..yes.Then he as why I havent persued top surgery?I told him that money was one thing..another was how he would deal with the changes,how people he knew would feel ect.Then I was ask how much dose this top urgery cost..I really have forgotten as I just see no chanch of me doing that at my age as well as health issues..I told him sevberal thousand at least...Besides no one dose that surgery hear even tho I have herd someone dose, im not really shure.All this made both of us do some thin king wich is good.

[julieisafemme]

I enjoyed the documentary. I actually thought as a partner that many of the issues we deal with were shown and explored through Jen. I found their relationship very hard to watch. Their was a lot of tension and grief that I could feel. When she said she has to get know him over and over as things change and progress I could really relate to that. You do never know what is in store! A physical change, a different way of relating. Some could be just normal changes couples go through but there is usually a question or thought 'is this transition related'.

What I really would have liked to have seen is more about how they arrived at the idea that they are now a straight couple. I don't think all couples get to that place. I am not there yet. My concern is that the general public will look at Chaz and think that this is how it is for every transman.

I do though very much appreciate his coming forward and sharing his story. Oprah is big time mainstream. I am hoping this will contribute towards transpeople being recognized and accepted for who they are.

[The Oopster]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I enjoyed the documentary. I actually thought as a partner that many of the issues we deal with were shown and explored through Jen. I found their relationship very hard to watch. Their was a lot of tension and grief that I could feel. When she said she has to get know him over and over as things change and progress I could really relate to that. You do never know what is in store! A physical change, a different way of relating. Some could be just normal changes couples go through but there is usually a question or thought 'is this transition related'.

What I really would have liked to have seen is more about how they arrived at the idea that they are now a straight couple. I don't think all couples get to that place. I am not there yet. My concern is that the general public will look at Chaz and think that this is how it is for every transman.

I do though very much appreciate his coming forward and sharing his story. Oprah is big time mainstream. I am hoping this will contribute towards transpeople being recognized and accepted for who they are.

I thought it was very good on the relationship(s) part of transition.

Someone earlier was taken back that the interview with Cher were seperate, yet I could relate to that. If my mom was being interviewed it would be far more comfortable for both of us for it be seperate.

I saw the emphasis to be more on the emotional and relational aspects of transition then the nity grity struggles and process of transition.

[Melissa]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I enjoyed the documentary. I actually thought as a partner that many of the issues we deal with were shown and explored through Jen. I found their relationship very hard to watch. Their was a lot of tension and grief that I could feel. When she said she has to get know him over and over as things change and progress I could really relate to that. You do never know what is in store! A physical change, a different way of relating. Some could be just normal changes couples go through but there is usually a question or thought 'is this transition related'.

What I really would have liked to have seen is more about how they arrived at the idea that they are now a straight couple. I don't think all couples get to that place. I am not there yet. My concern is that the general public will look at Chaz and think that this is how it is for every transman.

I do though very much appreciate his coming forward and sharing his story. Oprah is big time mainstream. I am hoping this will contribute towards transpeople being recognized and accepted for who they are.

I liked the point Jenn made that everyone is in transition when a friend, loved one, etc goes through a transition. I thought about my own "transition" on many levels as Rufus decided to and then went through his own transition. I am interested in knowing what types of transitions partners of trans men and women go through.

Melissa