I am... and I prefer the term...

[ruffryder]

WOW. lots of terms. Can you please explain the terms "cissexed" and "transsexed" I would appreciate it. Thank you!

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by ruffryder_0187

WOW. lots of terms. Can you please explain the terms "cissexed" and "transsexed" I would appreciate it. Thank you!

Good question.

Sex - male, female, intersexed, other terms (?)

Transsexed - another term to mean transsexual. Someone who defines/identifies as the opposite sex of their birth sex

Cissexed - another term to mean cissexual. Someone who defines/identifies with their birth sex.

[DapperButch]

Hey, Snow. I just saw the title to your post.

Of course everyone can participate in the discussion. I was referring to the poll options in my first response to you.

[ruffryder]

I am transgender consider hormones and I prefer the term transsexed.

[Toughy]

wiki does a pretty good job

cis-gendered: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

cis-sexual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cissexual , (from urban dictionary) http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=cissexual


and this from Pam's House Blend: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/...goalong-moment



I am not fond of the term cis anything. Don't no why it gets under my skin, but it does.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Toughy

wiki does a pretty good job

cis-gendered: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

cis-sexual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cissexual , (from urban dictionary) http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=cissexual


and this from Pam's House Blend: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/...goalong-moment



I am not found of the term cis anything. Don't no why it gets under my skin, but it does.

Thanks for the links, Toughy.

[ruffryder]

I think I agree with you Toughy. Why would a trans person like the word cis?? To me Trans means opposite sex why would someone choose that they relate with their sex? hmmm..

[Julie]

May I am confused... (not picking apart)

But you define: Cissexed - another term to mean cissexual. Someone who defines/identifies with their birth sex.

But then you have Femme/Bio Male - Bio Female

What would the difference be - in the femme category.

If I was born a bio female and I am femme... And I identify with my Bio Birth Sex - then which one am I?

And I am honestly not picking apart.

I had a great conversation with a friend yesterday... About misconceptions of b/f (sexism, etc... what gets us off and not).

I am a Lesbian
I am a Femme
I am a Dyke
I am a Woman

(not in any order - depends on my moment).

BUT - within the confines of your poll, I do not know how to answer.

Femme / Bio Male - Bio Female
Femme / Cissexed
Femme / XX or XY (abhor genetic terms)

Julie

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Julie

May I am confused... (not picking apart)

But you define: Cissexed - another term to mean cissexual. Someone who defines/identifies with their birth sex.

But then you have Femme/Bio Male - Bio Female

What would the difference be - in the femme category.

If I was born a bio female and I am femme... And I identify with my Bio Birth Sex - then which one am I?

And I am honestly not picking apart.

I had a great conversation with a friend yesterday... About misconceptions of b/f (sexism, etc... what gets us off and not).

I am a Lesbian
I am a Femme
I am a Dyke
I am a Woman

(not in any order - depends on my moment).

BUT - within the confines of your poll, I do not know how to answer.

Femme / Bio Male - Bio Female
Femme / Cissexed
Femme / XX or XY (abhor genetic terms)

Julie

I'm sorry Julie. I should been clearer. The first spot is indicating how you identify, the next one is the term that you prefer when referring to a person who is not transsexual/transsexed.

I will see if I can fix the poll. Thank you.

Side note: Like you and Snow, I identify with more than just the above poll options.

ETA: I am unable to adjust the poll.

[ruffryder]

However,

Cissexual is an adjective used in the context of gender issues to describe "people who are not transsexual and who have only ever experienced their mental and physical sexes as being aligned".[1] Nikki Sullivan and Samantha Murray characterized the term as "a way of drawing attention to the unmarked norm, against which trans* is identified, in which a person feels that their gender identity matches their body/sex".[2] Wikipedia
So I guess a transgender person may identify with cissexual in the sense that after surgery and hormones they identify with the body and identity they are now?

This really is quite interesting how people relate. . although some of it is confusing to me. BUT, I appreciate the thread and I always learn something new in the b-f community! When people explain how they identify then I understand them more. I respect everyone's identity and how they feel about themselves. Everyone has their reasons why.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by ruffryder_0187

However, Cissexual is an adjective used in the context of gender issues to describe "people who are not transsexual and who have only ever experienced their mental and physical sexes as being aligned".[1]

"Aligned"?!?! ....I guess that leaves me out of the cissexual panoply, then. As a lesbian butch I've never been "aligned" with any standard or norm.

Originally Posted by ruffryder_0187

Nikki Sullivan and Samantha Murray characterized the term as "a way of drawing attention to the unmarked norm, against which trans* is identified, in which a person feels that their gender identity matches their body/sex".[2] Wikipedia
So I guess a transgender person may identify with cissexual in the sense that after surgery and hormones they identify with the body and identity they are now?

"Unmarked norm"? ....Who's norm? Heterosexuals? Transgendered people? Transsexuals? Gay men? Femmes? Butches? Gender theorists? Feminists? Christionists? Taoists? Dalmatians?

"Against"? As in by way of a comparison?

I'm not sure how it's possible to compare lesbian butches with trans/gendered people. They are different identities - not the opposite of one another. You can compare apples with apples, but not bananas.

Sullivan and Murray's characterization leaves me cold. Lesbian butch is not a "norm" by any criteria I'm aware of, nor does it confer any real or imagined privilege.

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

I totally agree! Transsexual/transgendered was not a label that was originally introduced by the people whom it was intended to label; it was a label assigned to people by the dominant culture who had the ability to force a label onto a group of people. I think that the only reason this is a debate right now is b/c cis attempts to label non-trans folks in a way that doesn't set us up as the norm, and the discomfort comes from it not feeling like the "normal" id. i needed a lot of dialogue around it before i felt like i understood and was comfortable using it, privilege can easily be discounted by those who have it.

Cisgender privilege is a misnomer. Conformity isn't a privilege - it's it's a self-abrogating concession.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Cisgender privilege is a misnomer. Conformity isn't a privilege - it's it's a self-abrogating concession.

i can see your point. conformity can definitely be giving up your authenticity, and power.
i disagree that it is always that and i believe that there are some benefits to be had as well by those who conform. i do what feels right to me. does that mean i follow all of the norms or that i'm a virgin/whore wrapped up in a pretty package for your pleasure?? ...hells no. do i identify myself as aligned with the body i was born into? yes. does that give me certain rights? i would argue that yah, it does, unless you are living completely outside of society (in which case that's a whole other story). but because my sex aligns with the way i see myself, and the way that society views me i get to do things like get a job, i don't have to try to pass for someone i am not in order to feel or be safe, i don't have to explain my sex/gender to people, i can get a driver license/passport that id's me the way i want to be id'd (without any hassle or red tape), i get to use a bathroom without fear of having security called or getting beat up. basic stuff. things that should not be denied any group of people, but are. that's all i'm sayin.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

i can see your point. conformity can definitely be giving up your authenticity, and power.

The problem with conformity is, we don't always know we're doing it, and/or we call it by the wrong name, unintentionally or by design.

Even "being alternative", "gender queer", "fringe", "going G", yada, yada, can be a form of conformity. The conformity within my biker community comes to mind. (Accountants during the work week; Hell's Angeles on the weekend.)

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

i disagree that it is always that and i believe that there are some benefits to be had as well by those who conform.

Of course conformity has a pay-off, otherwise why do it? However, conformity always comes at a price, too.

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

i do what feels right to me. does that mean i follow all of the norms or that i'm a virgin/whore wrapped up in a pretty package for your pleasure?? ...hells no. do i identify myself as aligned with the body i was born into? yes. does that give me certain rights? i would argue that yah, it does, unless you are living completely outside of society (in which case that's a whole other story). but because my sex aligns with the way i see myself, and the way that society views me i get to do things like get a job, i don't have to try to pass for someone i am not in order to feel or be safe, i don't have to explain my sex/gender to people, i can get a driver license/passport that id's me the way i want to be id'd (without any hassle or red tape), i get to use a bathroom without fear of having security called or getting beat up. basic stuff. things that should not be denied any group of people, but are. that's all i'm sayin.

Well, you can argue anything, if you've a mind to.

Being aligned with the body you're born into isn't a "privilege". "Privilege" is a social construct - an arbitrary, subjective reality based on social norms and convention. You either buy into a given social construct (any construct), or you don't.

Butches do not have gender "privilege". They do not conform to the gender consructs of this culture be they female identified butches or not.

And btw, the opposite of "privileged" isn't deprivileged - it's unprivileged. Few women in this culture are "privileged". The LGBTQs should take care not to reinforce dominant culture myths that work against, or divide us.

Deprivileged = the loss of social privilege; to lose an advantage
Unprivileged = never being socially advantaged in the first place. (Butches and most women.)

PS: Foot binding was considered a gender norm among the "privileged" class in China not so long ago. Genital mutilation is still a norm in certain cultures. These practices are seen as making a woman more attractive and desirable. I suppose they advantage women who align with these practices. But, I'm loath to say they confer "privilege".

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

i can see your point. conformity can definitely be giving up your authenticity, and power.
i disagree that it is always that and i believe that there are some benefits to be had as well by those who conform. i do what feels right to me. does that mean i follow all of the norms or that i'm a virgin/whore wrapped up in a pretty package for your pleasure?? ...hells no. do i identify myself as aligned with the body i was born into? yes. does that give me certain rights? i would argue that yah, it does, unless you are living completely outside of society (in which case that's a whole other story). but because my sex aligns with the way i see myself, and the way that society views me i get to do things like get a job, i don't have to try to pass for someone i am not in order to feel or be safe, i don't have to explain my sex/gender to people, i can get a driver license/passport that id's me the way i want to be id'd (without any hassle or red tape), i get to use a bathroom without fear of having security called or getting beat up. basic stuff. things that should not be denied any group of people, but are. that's all i'm sayin.

I certainly see your points- yet, as a woman, you (and I as a butch woman) are more likely in this society to be sexually or phyically and emotionally assualted. Statistics demonstrate this. Just as there are higher rates of abuse and violence against transwomen within the tran population. So, being recognized as female, no matter the internal beliefs (or external presentation as observed by a potential abuser) of an individual continues (unfortunately) to be more dangerous across the board.

Add race, ethnicity and class to the mix and rates of abuse and violence against women (or those perceived as women) increase further.

[Words]

I'm a bit confused too about the difference between transgendered and transexed and why there's no transgendered on/not on hormones option.

How exactly do you differentiate between transexed and transgendered and why no hormone option for the latter?

Words

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Words

I'm a bit confused too about the difference between transgendered and transexed and why there's no transgendered on/not on hormones option.

How exactly do you differentiate between transexed and transgendered and why no hormone option for the latter?

Words

LOL. Man, I wish I could delete this thread now! (or just been more clear, I guess). Sorry, folks!

I know that the term transgendered is used as an umbrella term, a term in place of transsexual, and a term to describe someone in the "middle". I am using it to describe someone who does not regard themselves as male or female.

Yes, the part of the word that has gender in it does not really fit then, but I don't know what else to use (I have written a thread on this topic on more than one site). I did not use the term third gendered butch b/c gender is man, woman, butch, femme, etc., to me and I was talking about someone between the sexes (male, female).

Good point about the transgendered butch who uses hormones. I myself have considered them, but do not identify as transsexed.

I am using the term transsexed b/c I was under the impression that the trans community was beginning to prefer that term over transSEXUAL.

It was really hard to come up with ways to describe everyone. Unfortunately, I am not able to add/change.

[The_Lady_Snow]

So what if you're gender fluid???

I'm really curious not being a jerky jerk!

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So what if you're gender fluid???

I'm really curious not being a jerky jerk!

Could you define that term for me in the confines of this topic (I want to make sure that i understand what you are asking?) ?

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Good point about the transgendered butch who uses hormones. I myself have considered them, but do not identify as transsexed.

I am using the term transsexed b/c I was under the impression that the trans community was beginning to prefer that term over transSEXUAL.

I don't know why but I am not comfortable referring to myself as a transsexual. I prefer Trans, Transmasculine Butch and/or Transman.

I find that when I use the term cisgender or cissex, outside of people from the B-F online communities, the listening audience do not know what I am talking about. When I use the term "Biomale," they have a look of instant understanding come across their face.

[EnderD_503]

I like XX female/XY male best. I use cisgender as well, especially irl where its less awkward than saying "non-trans." If I'm talking about XX females or XY males specifically then I'll typically use those, but if I'm talking about non-trans people in general I find it's easier to just say cis irl.

But on the other hand that presents a problem. Mostly when I'm talking about cis people I'm talking about heteronormative/traditionally heterosexual folks who have no conflict between their reproductive organs/secondary sex features and their internal understanding of their own sex/gender, and I think it can be a whole other kettle of fish if cis is used as a generalization for the rest of the LGB community unless an individual identifies with cis specifically.

I really have come to dislike the terms biofemale and biomale. Biology encompasses more than reproductive organs, and given some of the hypotheses about the development of a fetus as "transsexed" in the womb, I'm not sure the words biomale and biofemale cover that.