I am... and I prefer the term...

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Do you feel aligned with your biological sex and your assigned gender?

I feel I am a female and woman, but no I am not aligned in the way I was assigned to it by my society and culture. I have done my own self alignment.

If the terms fit for you then of course I respect your opinion of yourself and your life experiences.

Ok that makes sense. So is it the societal expectations of how women are supposed to behave that you don't align with? That is the second part of the question and I, based on what you have posted, did not think that was true for you. I guess what I am trying to understand is that absent of societal expectations of how you should behave as a woman, do you feel aligned with your body and your internal sense of gender? Even if you do you still don't have to accept or use cisgender!! I am just asking.

The other reason I like the term is that it brought out the privilege that I experience in not having ever experienced gender dysphoria or going against what society expects of my gender. It was something I had never thought about or was aware of. I know this is just my experience and there are many people who are aware of this. I remember in another thread about this Heart said that as a feminist she has been contemplating her gender for a long time.

[Toughy]

societal expectations of how you should behave as a woman

I think that depends on what society/culture you were born to even within the US.

I come from the desert southwest (southeast new mexico). Women wore pants, worked along side men on the farm/ranch. The rule of thumb is: 'the butcher she looks, the more likely she is straight'. The expectation from farm/ranch culture was that women could and should be able to do what men did. And men should be able to do what women did. I was not raised with 'women's roles' and 'men's roles'. I was in for a hella shock when I went to college and ran into this other idea about women.

That is not to say I did not understand I was different. I knew I was not like other girls/women..........even the butch looking ones. I was entirely insecure in the girl-boy stuff. My first crushes were on girls even tho I could not articulate that crush. But I did know it was different and I was different.

So it's a mixed bag for me............but don't call me cis-sexed and/or cis-gendered.

I think the really confusing part is how 'gender' and 'sex' are interchangeable except when they are not.

[LipstickLola]

My ID is none of the above, and yet I am here

Interesting though!

[noneoftheabove]

hmmm i guess what bothers me most about the cis terms is their usage. I don't have problems with anyone's personal ID's. In fact, i think the cis terms can be quite helpful in explaining an individual's experience with gender when used as a self-ID. I disagree with the use of cis(anything) as a blanket term for those who do not ID as trans. Cis implies a knowledge of someone's self identity and we cannot know this just by looking (which is how this labeling usually happens). The other terms don't imply anything about how one views their own body or gender. Personally though, i use non trans(sexed or gender). I think that I see things this way because neither cis or trans fits for me.

[foxyshaman]

Until I started on line with BF communities I had NO IDEA there extent of different identities. I don't use any term "cis" simply because until this particular thread I never really understood the distinction. I do know so... THANK YOU.

I consider myself a third gender, but I come at it from a shamanic perspective. I had no idea until I started my research that shamans were and are considered to be the third gender. I felt like I finally had a reference point to what I had referred to myself consistently over the years. Then I came to BF communities and found out there was another way to determine third gender. I have found that my referring to myself as the third gender is often poopooed or not given any notice <shoulder shrug>. Doesn't change it, just interesting to 'feel' the response.

It has been a LLLLOOOONNNGGGG journey for me to embrace my feminine side. I never had any problem with my female gender, I have never had gender dysphoria, and I am grateful for that. I was revising a teaching I had done from 2006 to teach in early 2011. In my notes was a reference to wanting to/wishing to find my feminine side... and totally forgot that... and then voila here I am 2011 and have found myself not only finding my feminine side, but lovingly embracing it.

So... I did not participate in the poll because I did not understand it at first glance. now I understand what the OP was after. I respect the poll, and certainly respect each posters opinions and thoughts.

I just wanted to share a foxes thoughts...

[Leigh]

I'm an FTM and I personally ID as Male, but I don't really go into Bio or Cis cuz I guess I just see Myself as a regular guy :-)

[Andrew, Jr.]

I too am a FTM, and see myself just as a guy. It is other people who seem to have issues with my id from what I have learned over time.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I think that depends on what society/culture you were born to even within the US.

I come from the desert southwest (southeast new mexico). Women wore pants, worked along side men on the farm/ranch. The rule of thumb is: 'the butcher she looks, the more likely she is straight'. The expectation from farm/ranch culture was that women could and should be able to do what men did. And men should be able to do what women did. I was not raised with 'women's roles' and 'men's roles'. I was in for a hella shock when I went to college and ran into this other idea about women.

That is not to say I did not understand I was different. I knew I was not like other girls/women..........even the butch looking ones. I was entirely insecure in the girl-boy stuff. My first crushes were on girls even tho I could not articulate that crush. But I did know it was different and I was different.

So it's a mixed bag for me............but don't call me cis-sexed and/or cis-gendered.

I think the really confusing part is how 'gender' and 'sex' are interchangeable except when they are not.

Yes- very confusing!


I had a little bit of what you describe when I lived as a teen in a "mountain town"- Yet, felt like you did. I was not the same kind of butch as these other women due to my sexuality, not my gender presentation.

This is just not a simple subject area. Sometimes I wonder why we think it can be wrapped-up into a one size fits all paradigm. Both gender & sexuality are elastic and fluid to me and defy simplicity.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Ok that makes sense. So is it the societal expectations of how women are supposed to behave that you don't align with? That is the second part of the question and I, based on what you have posted, did not think that was true for you. I guess what I am trying to understand is that absent of societal expectations of how you should behave as a woman, do you feel aligned with your body and your internal sense of gender? Even if you do you still don't have to accept or use cisgender!! I am just asking.

The other reason I like the term is that it brought out the privilege that I experience in not having ever experienced gender dysphoria or going against what society expects of my gender. It was something I had never thought about or was aware of. I know this is just my experience and there are many people who are aware of this. I remember in another thread about this Heart said that as a feminist she has been contemplating her gender for a long time.

I am not sure how you can separate the two questions out. Our internal sense of self is still influenced by the culture and society we grow up in. We learn what it means to become female and woman by growing up and what we are being taught. I also do agree with Toughy that it can vary depending on where you grow up and also your family and other factors in terms of how your understanding develops in terms of what it means to be a woman, female etc.

When I was a child I wanted to be a boy. I had crushes on little girls and liked boys things way more than girls. I remember when my little girl friends would invite me over to play barbies and I would be bored to tears. I would rather be outside playing sports, riding my bike, reading a book, anything but play with dolls. I hated wearing dresses. I don't remember wanting to have a male body necessarily, but I did want to be a boy. I was a tomboy and this worked pretty well for me until adolescence. Then when I was in my teens I discovered what a lesbian was and it clicked for me and I didn't want to be a boy anymore.

My sense of my female body is much different than what I have been taught. I do feel my butch cock is an extension of myself and my ideal chest would not involve breasts. So I have made adjustments in my mind to align myself. Perhaps I will some day have chest surgery or perhaps not. I do not pack most of the time. I don't need to. My butch cock is there whether I am wearing it or not.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Ok that makes sense. So is it the societal expectations of how women are supposed to behave that you don't align with? That is the second part of the question and I, based on what you have posted, did not think that was true for you. I guess what I am trying to understand is that absent of societal expectations of how you should behave as a woman, do you feel aligned with your body and your internal sense of gender? Even if you do you still don't have to accept or use cisgender!! I am just asking.

The other reason I like the term is that it brought out the privilege that I experience in not having ever experienced gender dysphoria or going against what society expects of my gender. It was something I had never thought about or was aware of. I know this is just my experience and there are many people who are aware of this. I remember in another thread about this Heart said that as a feminist she has been contemplating her gender for a long time.

That probably comes being active during the Second Wave as the movement questioned the binary. This kicked in severly as the Gay Rights movement began as a related offshoot. And that could be why and how feminism was rejected by middle and upper middle-class (mainly, white) women that did fall within the range of what was considered "normal" for women- wife & mother. Tragic, really. But, what I am stating here is my personal feelings really having been an activist during that time. Heart will have to address this.

When I look back, I may not have had the terminology, but in the midst of questioning my sexuality, I questioned my gender. I never felt that I was male, but I sure knew I wasn't "of the norm" as a woman and a female and that heterosexuality (then, bi-sexuality) just wasn't who I was. Even in the kind of culture I was living in early on (the "mountain town"). For me, sexuality and gender identity was intermingled for a very long time.

Consequently, cis-gendered or cis-sexed doesn't work for me as an individual. However, I can see where it does for many people. Something else that has never fit is putting down women that do fit into the binary. It seems like not just a few femmes have been subjected to down right cruelty due to that kind of thinking because they may "appear" to fit the stereotype of the binary feminine or woman/female.

All in all- Queer seems to be the best fitting term for what I feel internally and about myself externally. But, I see the cis-gender/sexed theories can have a positive impact on society. We just have to get out of the confines of the binary system as it has stood for so long. Mainly, I want for all of us to be accepted as we are.