School costs and parent involvement

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by Martina

This stuff was going on long before NCLB. It wasn't that way when i was in school, but i remember friends who had their kids in Ann Arbor schools who were supposed to pony up for things all the time. i recall a minor example -- students were supposed to buy green t-shirts for a field trip so that the kids could be kept track of. My co-worker was poor and had no time to go out shopping on the spur of the moment etc.

i don't teach elementary, but we sure don't assume that there is support at home for projects. i am not sure how this got started. A friend of mine whose kids are in Ann Arbor schools is constantly working on projects. She has the money and the time, but is it even good for her sons?

Another friend, her son calls from COLLEGE for help, sometimes on deadline. The kid is a junior. It's mind-boggling to me.

Another friend is a dean of a small college, and she says for some years colleges -- and professors -- have had many more parents calling to intervene when their kids are failing a class etc. Amazing.

So i think parents are a part of the problem. i think they are afraid to allow their kids to fail or flounder. And it keeps upping the ante.

i also think this doesn't have anything to do with high stakes testing. If we were concentrating only on high stakes testing, there wouldn't be any projects at all. Project-based learning is great. It needs good curriculum, cooperation among staff and administration, and hard work on everyone's part. It should not require much parental involvement.

Parental pareticipation should be be about helping kids review and, if necessary, stay organized. The point of homework is building toward mastery. Sitting down with their kids, checking homework, helping kids with their planners, checking planners, staying up on what's happening in the classroom, and perhaps volunteering -- that's what parents should be doing. But they should not be going back to school themselves.

***begin rant***

i may sound a bit irritable here. But all the armchair folks who talk about what's wrong with the system, 90 percent of them don't have a clue. They read about it or listen to pundits on the radio, but they are not professionals. i understand that all of us are stakeholders. The students are our kids and future leaders. We all should care.

It's fine to read and research and have opinions. But i hear all the time, well i subbed fifteen years ago, and . . . Or my daughter teaches in San Jose, and she says. . . . i just want to say, get back to me when you are a fully credentialed experienced teacher, counselor or admin, when you have had real responsibility for children's educations.

It's not just the notion that teachers are the problem and that somehow "fixing" us would solve all the world's problems that i abhore. i think most of us here would object to that and object to the teacher-hating legislation that has been going on.

But the idea that every retired old fart at the donut shop feels qualified to tell you what is wrong -- at length -- with public schools is part of the problem -- the problem that is not respecting teachers and the mission of public school education.

Man, it makes me tired.

****end rant*****

Oh no! I think I am part of the problem! But I am okay with that. I work full time and do not have the opportunity to volunteer in the classroom or much at all.

We just finished a super fun project on birds. This was the culmination of a year of study for my daughter's third grade class. We had to make a nest for a Northern Pygmy Owl. My daughter came up with the concept and picked out the supplies at the store. I did help and so did Grandma because my daughter loves when we all do crafts together. It was so fun!! A hot glue gun was involved and so my Mom and I did that and burned ourselves! We made homemade clay eggs and got twigs by walking on the street and collecting them. My daughter came up with the construction of the tree we had to make and then told me how to assemble it.

I don't know. I don't think this was necessarily too difficult for her age. I really appreciate the projects where I get to help. It lets me see what she is doing and learning and it is an opportunity for us to do something together. I dropped her off really early and actually came in to school and looked at the other nests kids had made and talked to her teacher and it was good.

I think there is a happy medium between doing the project for your child and doing it together. I am grateful for the opportunity. I am also lucky and privileged to have the time to help her I know.

[Martina]

Awwww. That's wonderful! It sounds like it was the best of both for her -- she learned a lot and got to do something with Mom and Grandma.

LOL re the gluegun. i wouldn't put one of those in the hands of a kid either, BUT in reality their young hands are often more dextrous than our own.

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Oh no! I think I am part of the problem! But I am okay with that. I work full time and do not have the opportunity to volunteer in the classroom or much at all.

We just finished a super fun project on birds. This was the culmination of a year of study for my daughter's third grade class. We had to make a nest for a Northern Pygmy Owl. My daughter came up with the concept and picked out the supplies at the store. I did help and so did Grandma because my daughter loves when we all do crafts together. It was so fun!! A hot glue gun was involved and so my Mom and I did that and burned ourselves! We made homemade clay eggs and got twigs by walking on the street and collecting them. My daughter came up with the construction of the tree we had to make and then told me how to assemble it.

I don't know. I don't think this was necessarily too difficult for her age. I really appreciate the projects where I get to help. It lets me see what she is doing and learning and it is an opportunity for us to do something together. I dropped her off really early and actually came in to school and looked at the other nests kids had made and talked to her teacher and it was good.

I think there is a happy medium between doing the project for your child and doing it together. I am grateful for the opportunity. I am also lucky and privileged to have the time to help her I know.

[AtLast]

Having the time and energy for parents is difficult at times. Especially single parents. Put a lack of resources in the mix and it is tougher.

I am very happy that I was with a LT partner when I took over parenting for my son. She also joined in projects. Although, he was in HS at the time. That interaction is valuable.

I do, however, feel that teachers, especially those that are not parents themselves, may not get how hectic life is with kids and all of the things outside of school that takes a parent's time and energy having to do with their kids. With taking on parenthood, my whole internal structure as a teacher at that time changed- I saw and felt for myself some of the challenges parents had tried to explain to me that I really did not "get." Parents don't get to take a vacation from being a parent or go home to a home without kids after work.

I was lucky also that my son's Dad left a trust for his care and education. and as it turned out, things like therapy and extra help in academics as he has ADHD and perceptual neurologic problems that just could not be addressed in the shools available to him. There were no special education mandates at that time. Many parents do not have this kind of financial back-up at all. Many are trying to go on with their own higher education.

I have a bit of a problem when parents get blamed by teachers- even though I taught at the HS level, then community college and state universities- part time along with a full time therapy practice and the responsibility of a teen and later young adult getting through college. Be responsible for a child and them getting a good start in life and there are many fears that go along with this which are part of package.

[jelli]

It's ridiculous to me at the number of teachers that spend their own money for supplies as well as ridiculous the amount of money it takes for field trips nowadays. I mean where is the balance.

My kids have gone on field trips to places that I haven't even been to yet. We used to go to the relatively close "park" for a field trip and my son goes to Disney? I am as guilty as the next person about not wanting to say "no" and for wanting my kids to have the experience that I never had and finding a way to send them.

[Rockinonahigh]

Yesterday I was at wall mart and already they have school suplies out,I looked at the suply sheet for the school my son had gone to ..OMG the stuff they needed was off the chart,im really glad im done with buyig school suplys for anyone cause I would have to take out a bank loan to do it these days

[jelli]

Together T(aka Cruel) and I have put 5 kids through school. We currently have one high schooler left - thank heavens.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by jelli

It's ridiculous to me at the number of teachers that spend their own money for supplies as well as ridiculous the amount of money it takes for field trips nowadays. I mean where is the balance.

My kids have gone on field trips to places that I haven't even been to yet. We used to go to the relatively close "park" for a field trip and my son goes to Disney? I am as guilty as the next person about not wanting to say "no" and for wanting my kids to have the experience that I never had and finding a way to send them.

my daughter's last school cut out just about all the field trips except for 2 to outdoor ed (one overnighter in 4th grade and 3.5 days in 5th) and a trip great america or six flags or some lame ass ish like that.

I am all for going on field trips...but so NOT down for spending mah hard earned $$ on crap trips to consumerville like disneyland. i want my kid to go to places i haven't, but i want the trips to have some substance too. i think it's important for our kids to get out of the box while they're still young. i plan on being on the school board next year to stir some ish up! i dunno how that's gonna work yet (being a single parent, a student and a commuter) but i'll fig it out!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

my daughter's last school cut out just about all the field trips except for 2 to outdoor ed (one overnighter in 4th grade and 3.5 days in 5th) and a trip great america or six flags or some lame ass ish like that.

I am all for going on field trips...but so NOT down for spending mah hard earned $$ on crap trips to consumerville like disneyland. i want my kid to go to places i haven't, but i want the trips to have some substance too. i think it's important for our kids to get out of the box while they're still young. i plan on being on the school board next year to stir some ish up! i dunno how that's gonna work yet (being a single parent, a student and a commuter) but i'll fig it out!

OK, I'm old, but the field trips of my youth were related to our studies. For example, going to the state capitol and sitting in on state assembly or senate proceedings. Visiting the nearest CA mission, going to a planetarium for a science class.

I think it is great for all kids to get out of the box, too- but I think school field trips should be to enhance what kids are learning in school. When we went to government related places, our teachers taught us about how bills are put through the state legislature before we went and then we talked about the processes we observed.

[jelli]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I think it is great for all kids to get out of the box, too- but I think school field trips should be to enhance what kids are learning in school. When we went to government related places, our teachers taught us about how bills are put through the state legislature before we went and then we talked about the processes we observed.

Wouldn't that be great if that is how it worked out, but the sad thing is so many kids are taught to take the fast, easy, etc way.

Look at the number of kids nowadays that do not know how to use a dictionary, a phone book, balance a bank statement(keep track of ATM purchases), write a formal letter/resume/etc.

And why if kids aren't learning these things don't the parents teach them.

[jelli]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

I am all for going on field trips...but so NOT down for spending mah hard earned $$ on crap trips to consumerville like disneyland. i want my kid to go to places i haven't, but i want the trips to have some substance too.

I know exactly what you mean about having substance vs. touristy travels. Our district has been trying to find some balance, but I am not sure if the balance is where the trips start getting costly.

We want to go to Disneyland, but we need our educational stuff too. So let's see what is all on the way down and back that we can integrate as part of XYZ curriculum.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by jelli

We want to go to Disneyland, but we need our educational stuff too. So let's see what is all on the way down and back that we can integrate as part of XYZ curriculum.

i get that some people want to go to DL, but i don't feel it's appropriate for education, especially when things that are important AND essential to children's growth and development are being cut, like outside time, creative teaching, music and the arts. i feel that the fluffy trips (those that lack substance) should be family trips, not school. the child who comes from a low income family isn't going to miss much by not going to disneyland. hiwever, denied the opportunity to leave their neighborhood and see something of substance (our government in action )or inaction as the case may be) or seeing one of our national forests, could be life changing. i also don't think that DL should in any way be funded by taxpayer money. ...and i've been there, really isn't all that. your $70 (just to get in?? really?? why??) or whatever it is could be spent better elsewhere. jeez you could take a family of four to the local aquarium for that. i want my kid to be out in nature, or learning how our government works, not learning how to buy more ish...she gets enough of that without adding it into the curriculum. it pisses me off that the 8th grade DC trip got cut in favor of GA or 6 flags...sad day for education--end rant