Possible Triggering: Violence against butches.

[dykeumentary]

Very interesting thread. Here is my possibly triggering reply.

I have been attacked several times in my life, and one aspect of this that i don't think has been covered in this thread is how class intersects with violence against butches. I have had many dirty, hard, physical labor jobs, and so dress in work clothes that appear to be "gender non-conforming" even if that's what makes sense for that kind of work. Also, I am out as a butch lesbian. This has enraged many working class guys to the point of wanted to harm me. Because of the financial circumstances at different times in my life, environmental conditions were advantageous to men who wanted to hurt or kill me (physical isolation from someone who might help, noisy industrial places where my yells for help couldnt be heard, not enough light to see who the people were, co-workers afraid to lose their jobs in support of me, etc.) For example, I have been beaten at construction sites where I worked, and also beaten as I had to walk home late at night (bus lines had stopped). Being a poor woman is just more dangerous generally. There is no heirarchy of oppression; its just that 'the way things are' makes poor women more vulnerable physically, and then they have fewer options for there to be support, or even legal recourse after the attacks. Heaven help the poor _________ . (fill in the blank with your favorite deviant).

(Side note: Domestic worker rights are queer rights -- Congrats to domestic workers for the victories lately!)

And here's an odd one: Once I was getting beaten up, the men were hitting and kicking me and yelling "fucking dyke!" the whole time. Some men came running over to help, and because of them the attackers were arrested. The police report of the incident (that I had to sign while strapped to a back/neck board in the hospital) didn't include any of that language from during the attack. I asked the officer, and he said "I didn't want to embarass your family." Go figure.

[AtLast]

[QUOTE=dykeumentary;348945]Very interesting thread. Here is my possibly triggering reply.

I have been attacked several times in my life, and one aspect of this that i don't think has been covered in this thread is how class intersects with violence against butches. I have had many dirty, hard, physical labor jobs, and so dress in work clothes that appear to be "gender non-conforming" even if that's what makes sense for that kind of work. Also, I am out as a butch lesbian. This has enraged many working class guys to the point of wanted to harm me. Because of the financial circumstances at different times in my life, environmental conditions were advantageous to men who wanted to hurt or kill me (physical isolation from someone who might help, noisy industrial places where my yells for help couldnt be heard, not enough light to see who the people were, co-workers afraid to lose their jobs in support of me, etc.) For example, I have been beaten at construction sites where I worked, and also beaten as I had to walk home late at night (bus lines had stopped). Being a poor woman is just more dangerous generally. There is no heirarchy of oppression; its just that 'the way things are' makes poor women more vulnerable physically, and then they have fewer options for there to be support, or even legal recourse after the attacks. Heaven help the poor _________ . (fill in the blank with your favorite deviant).

(Side note: Domestic worker rights are queer rights -- Congrats to domestic workers for the victories lately!)

And here's an odd one: Once I was getting beaten up, the men were hitting and kicking me and yelling "fucking dyke!" the whole time. Some men came running over to help, and because of them the attackers were arrested. The police report of the incident (that I had to sign while strapped to a back/neck board in the hospital) didn't include any of that language from during the attack. I asked the officer, and he said "I didn't want to embarass your family." Go figure.[/QUOTE]

Shit!

Class seems to be forgotten often in our discussions, I think. Time we changed this.

[Merlin]

I liked my thread title better.

What does the triggering thing mean ?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I liked my thread title better.

What does the triggering thing mean ?

There were one or two posts that had some fairly explicit stuff that could possibly be triggering for someone reading it. It just means that those coming into this thread know that there has been some stuff that may or may not bring up some painful memories for them.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I liked my thread title better.

What does the triggering thing mean ?

Triggering means it might cause emotional harm to some readers by it's contents.

When you start a thread you should think about the impact it might have or what results you wish to achieve. It shouldn't just be for "shock" value. I'm curious--did you just want everyone to share their experiences or are you looking for something else?

[Merlin]

I wanted to know what others had been through.

I didn't expect many to answer as it's personal.

I am shocked at the severity of violence and am wondering if it's worse over there than here.

I am thinking of those who have posted here . . Just wanted to say that.

[Merlin]

It wasn't for shock value.

[RNguy]

Inside work I'm all business. I don't socialize a lot at work because I'm pretty OCD about work and serious . I catch a hard time about that . My recreational activities are hunting and fishing mostly so unlike my coworkers I don't go to bars or anything like that . My coworkers a lot of times after work go out to bars and drink and cut loose especially if its a coworkers birthday. I never go and I always catch reef about not socializing and cutting loose . This was 10 years ago , I finally gave in and said ok ill go join you coworkers when I get off work at 11. I was leery as this was a straight bar , country music type of bar and I've only been to a bar once prior . Just not my thing . I wasn't 7 steps in the bar and 2 cowboys approached me and said " hey faggot the stonewall is down the road , youre in the wrong place here fag " the other cowboy knocked me plum out . I didn't remember getting hit , I was laid out cold . My coworkers picked me up , carried me out and drove me home . I bet smokey stood over top of me and said you got knocked the !@#$ out . Anyways that's the one thing I have experienced . I had a nice shiner for a while though. It's sad folks are so hateful - RNguy

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I wanted to know what others had been through.

I didn't expect many to answer as it's personal.

I am shocked at the severity of violence and am wondering if it's worse over there than here.

I am thinking of those who have posted here . . Just wanted to say that.

Thanks for starting the thread! Unfortunately, the US is way up on the list in terms of violence of all kinds as a country. Makes me sad to know this about my country.

A lot of work to done if we are ever going to change this.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I also think we need stronger laws for those who are violent, esp. when it comes to assult, battery, and rape.

[citybutch]

Way up on the list? Where is this documented? I believe that violence against those who transgress gender expectations is rather universal. In fact, those who transgress heterosexual expectations in some countries of this planet are threatened with government sanctioned death...

I don't think the US is on any different platform than most countries .. but if we are I would love to see that study.

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Thanks for starting the thread! Unfortunately, the US is way up on the list in terms of violence of all kinds as a country. Makes me sad to know this about my country.

A lot of work to done if we are ever going to change this.

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Very interesting thread. Here is my possibly triggering reply.

I have been attacked several times in my life, and one aspect of this that i don't think has been covered in this thread is how class intersects with violence against butches. I have had many dirty, hard, physical labor jobs, and so dress in work clothes that appear to be "gender non-conforming" even if that's what makes sense for that kind of work. Also, I am out as a butch lesbian. This has enraged many working class guys to the point of wanted to harm me. Because of the financial circumstances at different times in my life, environmental conditions were advantageous to men who wanted to hurt or kill me (physical isolation from someone who might help, noisy industrial places where my yells for help couldnt be heard, not enough light to see who the people were, co-workers afraid to lose their jobs in support of me, etc.) For example, I have been beaten at construction sites where I worked, and also beaten as I had to walk home late at night (bus lines had stopped). Being a poor woman is just more dangerous generally. There is no heirarchy of oppression; its just that 'the way things are' makes poor women more vulnerable physically, and then they have fewer options for there to be support, or even legal recourse after the attacks. Heaven help the poor _________ . (fill in the blank with your favorite deviant).

(Side note: Domestic worker rights are queer rights -- Congrats to domestic workers for the victories lately!)

And here's an odd one: Once I was getting beaten up, the men were hitting and kicking me and yelling "fucking dyke!" the whole time. Some men came running over to help, and because of them the attackers were arrested. The police report of the incident (that I had to sign while strapped to a back/neck board in the hospital) didn't include any of that language from during the attack. I asked the officer, and he said "I didn't want to embarass your family." Go figure.

i would like to add a little to this great post.. it has seemed to me beeing a butch that has always worked in male dom fields it seemed the better i was at my job the more i would be bashed/targeted by my male co-workers.
i dont think its quite as bad today as it was in my bar curousing days but gay establishments were always in back alleys in bad neiborhoods. witch made us easy targets for haters.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by cody

i would like to add a little to this great post.. it has seemed to me beeing a butch that has always worked in male dom fields it seemed the better i was at my job the more i would be bashed/targeted by my male co-workers.
i dont think its quite as bad today as it was in my bar curousing days but gay establishments were always in back alleys in bad neiborhoods. witch made us easy targets for haters.

^5 for butches in male dominated work places

Yes that's so true about the locatoon of the bars. And the coded names of the bars, too!
Having the gay bars be out of the way also had advantages for the cops, too. When they were having a slow night or whatever, they'd cuff us as we left thr bar, and take us down to the station to run our records. I'm sure they were glad not many people were watching that harassment.

[Glenn]

This thread triggers alot of anger in me because of what I've seen, been through, and heard about, plus, I'm born a little hot-blooded to begin with. I've yelled at cops, thugs, whatever, when I've seen some bully bigger or out-numbering someone: WHAT THE ***DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING? I'm surprised I have'nt got in more trouble than I have. I empathize with you all greatly, but we have to stand up to bullies. I know what it feels like when guys get in your face threatening you, and punching you, while you weakly look around for help. Most people ignore dangerous situations that can turn violent, even though there are twenty againest one assaulter, they still cower and do nothing, and walk past, or come by later asking if you're ok. Where I came from, you don't ask, you just pull the trigger. If my life is on the line, you better believe somebody's going to sleep. So yeah..from now on I'm packing heat, and don't test my accuracy with my Glock-it's deadly. Read the conceal and carry laws and self defense laws in your state, then go buy a KahrPM9 and carry it with you. If anybody tries to assault you and yours, tell them forcfully to leave, if they keep on trying to assault you, then it's open season. If someone tries to **** with you stand in front of your femme if you are out-numbered or outsized,and they threaten you with a weapon or fists, then it's open season. There's no excuse to let yourself be terrorized. If the police are'nt there to protect me, then that duty is up to me.