Gender Neutral Kindergarten in Sweden

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Chazz

....and replaced them with what? Tonka toys and footballs for girls, dolls, crinoline and lace for boys.

Shifting around gender specific toys, clothing, play activities, pronouns, etc. doesn't resolve the false duality of gender constructs.

Perhaps the focus needs to shift more towards attachment parenting and/or a model reflective of Waldorf philosophies on education/pedagogy.

[Novelafemme]

"false duality of gender constructs"

how is this representative of what this school in Sweden is hoping to achieve? Where is the false duality you speak of in that environment? Certainly not in their language/toy choices...

I'm confused.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

"false duality of gender constructs"

how is this representative of what this school in Sweden is hoping to achieve? Where is the false duality you speak of in that environment? Certainly not in their language/toy choices...

I'm confused.

Sweden is trying to chip away at the monolith of gender constructs by altering pronouns. That's like trying to eradicate racism by electing an African-American president.

But to your question....

I could give you the TAOist version: "Don’t confuse the linguistic meta-levels. Deny false dichotomies (binary fascism, dualistic absolutism) by uniting all opposites."

Or, the Omar Khayyam versions: "Peace is the reconciliation of opposites.

Or, I could just say: Gender is something we construct because we are lost to ourselves.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Sweden is trying to chip away at the monolith of gender constructs by altering pronouns. That's like trying to eradicate racism by electing an African-American president.

But to your question....

I could give you the TAOist version: "Don’t confuse the linguistic meta-levels. Deny false dichotomies (binary fascism, dualistic absolutism) by uniting all opposites."

Or, the Omar Khayyam versions: "Peace is the reconciliation of opposites.

Or, I could just say: Gender is something we construct because we are lost to ourselves.

...and so what would be your offering? my feeling is that you have to start somewhere and often that begins with language.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

...and so what would be your offering? my feeling is that you have to start somewhere and often that begins with language.

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

...and so what would be your offering? my feeling is that you have to start somewhere and often that begins with language.

"WE" could throw the false duality of gender-speak (in all its incarnations) out the window. "WE" could stop speaking of ourselves as "masculine" and "feminine". "WE" could stop gendering toys, clothes, hair styles, sex, and swagger....

"We" could ditch all the How Do You Identify? stuff and just be....

[cane]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Sweden is trying to chip away at the monolith of gender constructs by altering pronouns. That's like trying to eradicate racism by electing an African-American president.

But to your question....

I could give you the TAOist version: "Don’t confuse the linguistic meta-levels. Deny false dichotomies (binary fascism, dualistic absolutism) by uniting all opposites."

Or, the Omar Khayyam versions: "Peace is the reconciliation of opposites.

Or, I could just say: Gender is something we construct because we are lost to ourselves.

You do understand, I hope, that there is an entire curriculum that this is based upon, they didn't just change a couple of words. What's the alternative..? Doing nothing..? Or maybe just write about it...

/Cane, gender pedagogue in Sweden

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by cane

You do understand, I hope, that there is an entire curriculum that this is based upon, they didn't just change a couple of words. What's the alternative..? Doing nothing..? Or maybe just write about it...

/Cane, gender pedagogue in Sweden

Yes, I realize....

The alternative isn't doing "nothing" - it's doing something entirely different. Metachromatism, not metagenesis.

If I, Chazz, can't articulate the details of how that might look with exacting intricacy, it doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy thing to imagine.

[ScandalAndy]

Just to clear up my position on this entire thing:

I believe that in America we have firmly constructed rigid gender classifications based on post-war nuclear family structure. Men are assumed to be bigger, stronger, breadwinners, take out the trash, lift the heavy things, fix the lawnmower, less concerned about appearance/clothing, encouraged to participate in rough/competitive activities, and anything that falls into this arena is considered masculine, associated with male gendered behavior. Women are assumed to be smaller, weaker, child-rearing caregivers, food preparers, clean the house, more concerned about appearance/clothing, and prefer gentler, softer clothing/activities, anything that falls under that umbrella is considered feminine, associated with female gendered behavior.

I agree that parents should be the forefront of change and should actively seek to discourage classification of things such as "boy's toys" and "girl's games", however, I think this behavior absolutely must be reinforced outside of the home as well. I believe that the only way we can destroy this gendered sorting of human beings is by aggressively obliterating that type of judgment from our society. I think what this school is doing is a first step in that direction, which is why I support it.


ETA: I believe children should learn all behaviors without the stigma of gender, and ESPECIALLY not with the threat of being punished for enjoying activities that do not fit into the box of traits that are supposed to correspond to their biological sex, which, as has been stated previously, is not the same as gender.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

Just to clear up my position on this entire thing:

I believe that in America we have firmly constructed rigid gender classifications based on post-war nuclear family structure. Men are assumed to be bigger, stronger, breadwinners, take out the trash, lift the heavy things, fix the lawnmower, less concerned about appearance/clothing, encouraged to participate in rough/competitive activities, and anything that falls into this arena is considered masculine, associated with male gendered behavior. Women are assumed to be smaller, weaker, child-rearing caregivers, food preparers, clean the house, more concerned about appearance/clothing, and prefer gentler, softer clothing/activities, anything that falls under that umbrella is considered feminine, associated with female gendered behavior.

I agree that parents should be the forefront of change and should actively seek to discourage classification of things such as "boy's toys" and "girl's games", however, I think this behavior absolutely must be reinforced outside of the home as well. I believe that the only way we can destroy this gendered sorting of human beings is by aggressively obliterating that type of judgment from our society. I think what this school is doing is a first step in that direction, which is why I support it.

...were we separated at birth??

[tapu]

I have not seen one pre-school--now, granted I've only spent time in maybe 8-10 (and only on the coasts so yes, more progressive)--that delineates the sexes, the play, the toys in classroom set-up or on-going direction.

Of course, there are promoting or limiting gender-directed behaviors that the caregivers have and that could be modified through outside observation and feedback. Overall, it has seemed to me that there is a natural division in interest that the kids display, along gender lines.

But... what exactly IS the problem when little girls choose the dolls and such and little boys choose the trains and such?

I live in a very progressive city (Portland, ME), and I think it's fairly well entrenched here that if "Biff" wants to wear a tutu to the museum play, he gets to. (real-life example) If "Nell" is into her trucks, no one worries a thing about it.

What is happening in progressive classrooms like that that is undesirable or unnatural that could be done better? What change being engineered is desired, exactly?

[cane]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Yes, I realize....

The alternative isn't doing "nothing" - it's doing something entirely different. Metachromatism, not metagenesis.

If I, Chazz, can't articulate the details of how that might look with exacting intricacy, it doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy thing to imagine.

To quote myself "or maybe just write about it..." or "imagine" -to quote you.

So something you can't even articulate you want implimented in a pre-schools curriculum? Yes, imagine...

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by cane

To quote myself "or maybe just write about it..." or "imagine" -to quote you.

So something you can't even articulate you want implimented in a pre-schools curriculum? Yes, imagine...

LOL, yeah, that's it.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

Perhaps the focus needs to shift more towards attachment parenting and/or a model reflective of Waldorf philosophies on education/pedagogy.

Try and get that passed by the Republicans, why doncha.

There needs to be a cultural/spiritual shift in consciousness. Assuming that ever happens, the rest will follow.

I use to be hopeful, now, not so much.