Atheist support, discussion, and information sharing thread

[tapu]

Wish I could be there. The topic sounds very interesting.



As for the thread, I'm in.


-tap

[Dominique]

J Bey is from Pittsburgh, can't be a bad thing.

just saying

[Jar]

wow. I won't bash it but I think athesists are so out of tune with the universe. Just sayin

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Jar

wow. I won't bash it but I think athesists are so out of tune with the universe. Just sayin

Um, this isn't a very nice thing to say. I am not an atheist but I would never say something so rude. Really Jar, was this necessary?

[Jar]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Um, this isn't a very nice thing to say. I am not an atheist but I would never say something so rude. Really Jar, was this necessary?

I didn't mean it to be rude. I just mean that anyone that doesn't think there's more is out of tune. Just my opinion

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Jar

I didn't mean it to be rude. I just mean that anyone that doesn't think there's more is out of tune. Just my opinion

Can you clarify what this means? What makes you think that people don't think there is more?

[Jar]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Can you clarify what this means? What makes you think that people don't think there is more?

I'm just saying that if people don't think there's more than this life, then they're outa touch with the universe.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Jar

I didn't mean it to be rude. I just mean that anyone that doesn't think there's more is out of tune. Just my opinion

I wasn't going to respond, but then you came back in and said it again. So here is my opinion...

It doesn't matter if you meant to be rude, you were rude. I am one of the more outspoken non-theists on the board. I have been accused of being just like a fundamentalist just because I steadfastly refuse to pretend that there's one set of rules for dealing with the physical world and there's another set of rules for dealing with the 'spiritual world' that somehow is able to effect change in the physical world in a detectable fashion--as long as the means of that detection are not scientific. Now, it may be the case that I am wrong and there's one or more gods or everyone gets two or more lives or the Universe is the result of this or that divine being with this or that egg or what-have-you. I fully admit that I *might* be wrong.

However, when I look out at the Universe, when I contemplate the thirty-seven orders of magnitude we have access to from sub-atomic particles at one end to the large structure of the Universe at the other, I see something just as beautiful and probably quite a bit more terrifying than you may. I see a universe that at the finest scale plays merry havoc with all our intuitions about how matter and space and time 'should' work. Yet, our description of the universe at the sub-atomic scale, while incomplete, appears to work pretty well, pretty much of the time. The universe at the scale of the very small is sublimely beautiful. On the other scale, that of galaxies and superclusters of galaxies, of solar systems and the very 'beginning' and 'end' of the Universe, I see a landscape of incredible majesty, phenomenal energies, and deep, deep mysteries. I also find monsters. The kinds of things that will keep you up at night. Black holes are monsters. A black hole appearing in our neighborhood would visit unimaginable catastrophe on our planet. Yet, that is not even the most terrifying of the horrors. A few hundred light years from us, there's a star system which rotates on its axis in such a manner that one of its poles is pointed right at our planet. This star is MASSIVE and is a prime candidate to die in such a way that it could become a gamma ray burst. From so far away that it will take the light a century to get here, that star, if it blows up in the manner that stars of its size tend to do, could wipe out at least half the life on this planet--depending upon how long the burst lasts. And then, closer to home, somewhere on a very eccentric orbit there is likely a very big rock with our planet's name on it. The last time something really big hit the planet, it made the Yucatan get its unique shape and likely took down the dinosaurs.

And of all the potential ways our species could shuffle off our mortal coil, we can do something about *one* of them--the rock. There's no divine being that will make the star not die in such a way as to make a gamma ray burst. Either it will (or already has) or it won't. In my world, death is death. If you are the one left behind, you have to find the inner fortitude to go on missing someone you loved. If you are the one leaving, you have to find the courage to come to grips with your non-existence. It adds urgency to my life, makes it *vitally* important how I live. Because life is done in one shot, one take, in real time, in front of a live and participating audience who all are being imperfect humans as well. If it didn't have poetry and dogs, good food, art, music, cats, sex, beer, coffee, pot, writing and storms it would be a whole lot less enjoyable. As it is, it's a good life. I don't feel like I'm missing much of anything and I've been a believer--in both the Christian and New Age senses. I know what it feels like.

I'm a better person without spirituality or religion. I live my life more presently. My only reward for being any kind of decent human being is that I get to be some kind of decent human being. I think that is a rich and wonderful life and while I am in no hurry to shuffle off this mortal coil, I recognize that I will. I don't like that, but no one ever does.

You may think we're out of tune but I prefer to think of it like this; my job is to accept the Universe on its terms, not try to make it conform to my terms. That doesn't mean I don't work for change. Because the universe is impersonal any justice, any love, any kindness or any mercy that exists in the universe will have to come from us or some other sentient species. That makes working for those things all the more important because if we fall down on it, for all we know that quality is diminished in the universe.

I don't know what you think I'm missing out on just because I don't expect the universe to conform to my own ambitions or my own desires. I don't think I'm missing much at all.

Cheers
Aj

ps. You get to have your opinion. I get to have an opinion *about* your opinion.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

I'm a better person without spirituality or religion. I live my life more presently. My only reward for being any kind of decent human being is that I get to be some kind of decent human being. I think that is a rich and wonderful life and while I am in no hurry to shuffle off this mortal coil, I recognize that I will. I don't like that, but no one ever does.

You may think we're out of tune but I prefer to think of it like this; my job is to accept the Universe on its terms, not try to make it conform to my terms. That doesn't mean I don't work for change. Because the universe is impersonal any justice, any love, any kindness or any mercy that exists in the universe will have to come from us or some other sentient species. That makes working for those things all the more important because if we fall down on it, for all we know that quality is diminished in the universe.

I don't know what you think I'm missing out on just because I don't expect the universe to conform to my own ambitions or my own desires. I don't think I'm missing much at all.

Cheers
Aj

Yes, this exactly. Thank you for saying it so beautifully Aj.

In a different thread, someone (other than Jar) posted that a life without belief in God basically had no meaning. Frankly, I got pissed.

I hear this a lot. And yes, a life without belief in God is still a life abundant with meaning...and values and love and joy and sadness and all the rest of it.
When Scoote and I were in the Bahamas on her award trip, her company did a day of volunteer work and guests (like my son, her son and myself) were invited to join in. We painted, landscaped, built bicycles for kids....lots of good stuff. We brought joy to a lot of people (including those of us who were doing the work ).

I know that many, including the founder of the company, included their belief in God in that experience and verbalized that. I'm fine with that. I'll even bow my head while you pray, out of respect for your beliefs. However, the experience was not any less touching or meaningful for those of us who participated simply because we were making the world a better place for some folks living on it who had less than we did, and who could use a hand.

What's frequently also implied is that somehow atheists are worse or less moral people than those who believe in God. It frustrates me....because not all of those who say they believe live a life that would meet my moral standards, let alone those that are espoused in the new testament of the Christian Bible. (And yes, I know that not all those that are believers are Christians....that's only an example.)

At the end of the day, I don't judge those who do believe in God. And I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

[ButchBowWow]

Originally Posted by Jar

wow. I won't bash it but I think athesists are so out of tune with the universe. Just sayin

Really?

Then why reply at all?

Just sayin....

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by ButchBowWow

Really?

Then why reply at all?

Just sayin....

Thank you! I was trying to find a way to not be snarky.....but every thread has to have one.

[hpychick]

It takes a LOT of faith to be an Atheist.

We are all going our own direction on our own path at our own speed.

IMO tolerance and respect for differing beliefs is needed here.

Please note: In My Opinion

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Jar

wow. I won't bash it but I think athesists are so out of tune with the universe. Just sayin

Funny that's kind of how I feel about people who believe in all those magical lies in the Bible..

Have you read Revelations?? Acid trip!!!

It's hard not to believe your intent was not to bash something when you come in ans say


"I won't bash it but"

It's pretty obvious when you start out like that your intent is to dump on a thread that really holds no interest for you, it's rather shitty to do.

[Jar]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Funny that's kind of how I feel about peobut"ple who believe in all those magical lies in the Bible..

Have you read Revelations?? Acid trip!!!

It's hard not to believe your intent was not to bash something when you come in ans say


"I won't bash it

It's pretty obvious when you start out like that your intent is to dump on a thread that really holds no interest for you, it's rather shitty to do.

I NEVER said that I believe in the bible because it was written by men who had thier own agendas.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Jar

I NEVER said that I believe in the bible because it was written by men who had thier own agendas.

I never said you Jar believed in the bible. I was stating what I thought about the Bibles stories, not what Jar believes about the Bible stories.

[tapu]

Originally Posted by Jar

wow. I won't bash it but I think athesists are so out of tune with the universe. Just sayin

"So out of tune with the universe." Wow, what would you say if you were bashing us?

I have to tell you my own secret prejudice though: I think atheists are more intelligent, and braver, than those who can't bear to look at reality. Not to bash you. Jar.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by tapu

I have to tell you my own secret prejudice though: I think atheists are more intelligent, and braver, than those who can't bear to look at reality.

I support atheist's right to believe what they believe. I don't think believers in God/ess, higher power, etc nor atheists have exclusive rights to "reality", however. And, no I am not strictly speaking a Christian, and I am not a bible thumper. I don't have an all-or-nothing, black or white way of seeing the world. You see reality differently than I do tapu. Does that mean you think I am less intelligent and brave than you? I don't make those assumptions about you based on your atheism. I am not asking this to be snarky or insincere. I would really like to know.

Respectfully,

Drew

[The_Lady_Snow]

Can you take that convo into private Drew and respect this space? I mean really why is it people who don't follow the Christian Doctrine can't have a thread to talk about it? It's pretty shittty to bring up your religious views when it is clearly not that kind of thread.

[Chancie]

Originally Posted by Jar

wow. I won't bash it but I think athesists are so out of tune with the universe. Just sayin

Originally Posted by tapu

"So out of tune with the universe." Wow, what would you say if you were bashing us?

I have to tell you my own secret prejudice though: I think atheists are more intelligent, and braver, than those who can't bear to look at reality. Not to bash you. Jar.

Neither post contributes to this thread.

[ButchBowWow]

I consider myself to be a non-practicing Pagan leaning strongly towards Atheism.

That being said, I do not go into Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. threads to discuss why I am not (insert religion here) or to tell them that I think they are out of tune with the universe.