Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

[Novelafemme]

My partner, who has her J.D, said that the standard of proof is extremely high in cases such as this...meaning, if the defense could convince the jury that there is plausible reason (any reason) that she could be innocent, they must vote not guilty. I totally agree with whomever stated that she should at the very least be sterilized.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

My partner, who has her J.D, said that the standard of proof is extremely high in cases such as this...meaning, if the defense could convince the jury that there is plausible reason (any reason) that she could be innocent, they must vote not guilty. I totally agree with whomever stated that she should at the very least be sterilized.

Yes, the burden of proof by the prosecution in capital cases is very narrow in terms of reasonable doubt. And the judge must make this very clear to the jury. Also, as someone brought up, the antics by both the prosecuting and defense lawyers was not played out in front of the jury.

Also, these days with the hyper-focusing of juries on forensic evidence based upon scientific investigation techniques has put a much higher bar on the prosecution in such cases. connecting the dots circumstantially isn't good enough in today's courtrooms.

If the cause of death had been determined as suffocation, the duct tape theory would have most likely changed the verdict- IF there was also forensic evidence on the duct tape like hairs, blood, fibers that connected Casey to it. From the start, no cause of death actually being found and supported by technological investigative tools has been a problem This allowed the defense to build on other possible scenerios of how this little girl died.

At first I was shocked with the verdict but in thinking more about it, I can see how reasonable doubt played into the verdict strongly.

My heart still hurts for this child and I personally believe Casey killed her, but, when I look at the burden of proof elements for the prosecution- I can see why she was not found guilty of 1st degree murder. I am wondering about why lesser offenses were not part of what the jury could make a verdict on, like second degree murder or manslaughter. I don't know how Florida courts works in terms of the degrees of guilt a jury is given to choose from in cases like this.

[BullDog]

In my opinion the reasons O.J. Simpson got away with murder are (1) he was a very popular football player and celebrity and (2) he was wealthy and was able to afford very, very good lawyers. The police also fucked up quite a bit in the beginning which I believe was influenced by the fact that they were giddy about O.J. Simpson being involved.

I don't believe the average African American male could get away with murder, especially of a beautiful white blonde woman, the way O.J. did. In fact I think there is a lot of evidence to prove that. They don't have his celebrity or money to overcome the fact that they are black males. O.J. won despite the fact he is black and it took a whole lot of celebrity, money and people fucking up for that to happen.

I also did serve on a jury in a murder trial (in California not Florida) and the Reasonable Doubt standard is quite high. The makeup of the jury and the effectiveness of the defense attorneys can also play a big role.

I have not followed this particular trial but the Reasonable Doubt standard could have been what saved her, but I don't rule out race and other factors for sure. The Reasonable Doubt standard is important to protect the innocent, but it can also lead to people getting away with murder if the evidence isn't strong enough or not presented effectively enough. That's tough. It really is.

[Medusa]

I wonder why the prosecution did not add "Abuse of a Corpse" to her charges? That would at least carry a felony charge that she might have been convicted for.

[cinderella]

In my OP, I stated that I'd only been 'sporadically' watching this case - so I don't know every little detail. My question to you, Medusa, is, what do you mean by 'abuse of a corpse'? How was the corpse abused? Can you elaborate? Perhaps this came out during a time I was not watching...thanks.

Originally Posted by Medusa

I wonder why the prosecution did not add "Abuse of a Corpse" to her charges? That would at least carry a felony charge that she might have been convicted for.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by cinderella

In my OP, I stated that I'd only been 'sporadically' watching this case - so I don't know every little detail. My question to you, Medusa, is, what do you mean by 'abuse of a corpse'? How was the corpse abused? Can you elaborate? Perhaps this came out during a time I was not watching...thanks.

What I meant was that in most states there are very strict laws dealing with the proper disposal of dead bodies and that, in this case, it is clear that even if the jury believed that Casey Anthony did not cause her child's death, she at the very least did not dispose of the body properly if we believe the (bullshit) story about her drowning in a pool.

Had I been the prosecuting attorney, I would have added the "corpse abuse" charge in order to at least guarantee a minimum sentence (1 year I think? with a maximum of 5?) even if the jury didnt find her guilty.

Because clearly, someone threw this child's body in the swamp and duct taped her and wrapped her in a bag. I dont recall hearing if there was ever an explanation as to how or who disposed of the body but I wish that charge would have been added.

[TickledPink]

I wanted to be pissed off at the jury for being lazy and clueless.

I wanted to be pissed off at the prosecution for not presenting a better case.

I wanted to be pissed off at our judicial system.

I wanted to hurt this mother that could do that to a child, her child, any child!

But.......it doesn't bring this little girl back, does it? None of it.

So what do we do? This is the biggest bunch of bullshit I've smelled in quite sometime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*shaking my head and going to cook dinner*

[cinderella]

Thank you for the explanation, Medusa. I also believe this was something that should have come into play - why wasn't the question asked? Here again, is a missed opportunity on the prosecutor's side...why, I wonder.

Originally Posted by Medusa

What I meant was that in most states there are very strict laws dealing with the proper disposal of dead bodies and that, in this case, it is clear that even if the jury believed that Casey Anthony did not cause her child's death, she at the very least did not dispose of the body properly if we believe the (bullshit) story about her drowning in a pool.

Had I been the prosecuting attorney, I would have added the "corpse abuse" charge in order to at least guarantee a minimum sentence (1 year I think? with a maximum of 5?) even if the jury didnt find her guilty.

Because clearly, someone threw this child's body in the swamp and duct taped her and wrapped her in a bag. I dont recall hearing if there was ever an explanation as to how or who disposed of the body but I wish that charge would have been added.

[Medusa]

Yeah, it was frustrating watching the defense throw out weird theories about how the meter man must have moved the body or how there was molestation or how she drowned in the swimming pool and not have to provide any evidence that what they were saying was the least bit true. I know this is the very cornerstone of our judicial system but I felt like the authorities finding this baby's body in a swamp less than a mile from the house and all the lies Casey told would have amounted to "Casey Anthoney, the child's mother, at the very LEAST commited manslaughter or child abuse"

I still can't get over the fact that the words "neck breaking" and "chloroform" were searched on the home computer, Casey's mother LIED about being the one doing it AND was busted out by computer forensics, and still? The jury didn't think that was at least some form of pre-meditation.

I dunno. Maybe she really did drown and Casey Anthony panicked and threw her body in the swamp. It still doesn't explain why she made up stories about "Zanny the Nanny" or her brother and father abusing her.

[Rockinonahigh]

CAsey Anthony got lucky,very lucky.At the very least I thought she would get time for child indangerment or child abuse.In my opinion she should be sent to a mental intsatution so she can get help,without it she will do something like this a again.One thing for sure she should never have another child in this lifetime.The only thing she had guilty in was lieing to the police,insted of doing any time for it she could be let go with time served.

[Dude]

I dont get it.
I expected the death penalty. Now hearing this I am completely
floored.

[Mr. Moon]

Originally Posted by Medusa

I still can't get over the fact that the words "neck breaking" and "chloroform" were searched on the home computer, Casey's mother LIED about being the one doing it AND was busted out by computer forensics, and still? The jury didn't think that was at least some form of pre-meditation.

I tried really hard not to pay attention to this whole circus. But at the last moment got drug into the tv coverage of the lawyers final statements (two freakin days worth!). This quote above....I saw a lawyer say that there were two different software models run over their computer. One caught 1 search for cloriform, 54 for myspace, the other caught 54 searches for cloriform, none for myspace. I have no idea if this was shown during the trial or only the final statements. However, that would be why a juror would think ..hmmmmm what's this about?

I held no prior expectation when I watched the final days. And to be honest, what I saw IN THE COURTROOM seemed to lean towards reasonable doubt.

People...remember....the media hype was HUGE and you've heard false information and the jurors did not hear this crap.

Did she do something? Yes. And I don't believe ANYONE thinks different. But no one know for damn sure what happened. And you just can't put a person behind bars forever not knowing this. If you could, we could all end up in jail. It's a twisted system that works sometimes ..at best.

I don't get all this knee jerk reactionary stuff I see everywhere. Get a grip people! This happens ALL the time everywhere! We just don't get mass media franzies about it. Sometimes someone innocent is jacked up in jail. (what's the girl in a foreign country that I believe is probably innocent? oy!).

Injustices all over.

Welcome to America or the world for that matter.

I am amazed at all the emotional stuff...people want to hurt her parents? Kill her? Now how does that work? You murder someone and it makes it right??? my god ..what is wrong here??

frustrated, and disappointed in alot of things,
-Moon

[Toughy]

jurors were affected by the so called Stockholm Syndrone, and because of the length of the trial and feeling or emotions for the defendant can develop.

This is not a true statement. Stockholm Syndrome is not about jurors who may or may not be sequestered in a long trial. Suggesting that it could apply to a jury ignores and downplays the true nature of this phenomena. It is about hostages....folks taken against their will and kept captive. It is about empathy with the captors. Patty Hearst is probably the best known case in the US.

Having feelings or emotions about a defendant as a juror in a trial is an entirely different thing.

------------------------------
We (citizens of the US) have known for decades that race and class have everything to do with prosecution and prison time. If you don't believe it, just look at Oscar Grant (by the way....BART cops shot and killed a guy with a knife a couple of days ago on a BART platform) and at the arrest of a POC for the beating of a white guy in LA at a baseball game. That POC still has not been charged in that case, but they got him on a parole violation and he is in jail right now (there were weapons in the house he was arrested in....not his weapons). He didn't have anything to do with beating the paramedic white guy....oh the poor kids and wife of the white guy, so get the first convenient brown tattoed gang guy.

Anyway as to Casey Anthony. I have no idea what she did or didn't do. I don't listen to emtional bullshit spit out by TV entertainment news anchors. Justice is never accomplished when everyone does that. I am sure Walter Cronkite is spinning in his grave over Julie Chen crying on TV about this verdict. I am also very glad Nancy Grace is no longer a prosecutor.

[moxie]

I am glad I was not on that jury. I don't know what I would have decided, as from what I have read and seen, which is minimal, it would have been VERY difficult for me to make a decision based on law and not on emotion. And I say that because I was exposed to the media's interpretation of the case, not the facts that were presented in court. I've been a registered voter for 20 years and have never been called for jury duty, and when I think about it, I am somewhat glad I haven't been in fear I would get put on a case such as this.

I am not familiar with Florida law; however, I am surprised there wasn't an endangering the welfare of a minor charge in there.

I fully expect her to walk on Thursday with time served.

[Blade]

JVM just announced that George and Cindy are getting death threats. I can't imagine the kind of life Casey will have when she is freed, if her parents are getting death threats.

[Corkey]

I don't care what kind of life she's going to have, not guilty does not mean innocent, and she is not innocent, just not guilty. My anger is fully on the prosecution and their lousy case.

[Melissa]

Originally Posted by Medusa

I wonder why the prosecution did not add "Abuse of a Corpse" to her charges? That would at least carry a felony charge that she might have been convicted for.

I thought it was strange too. I think it is because there is no proof as to who actually transported and buried her out there.


Melissa