Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

[Andrew, Jr.]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I was only stating my own personal opinion. I apologize if I offended anyone with my opinion. This evening my neighbors and I were chatting about this case over dinner, and everyone agreed with my opinion. I am really surprised that folks here were offended because when chatting about this, some of the neighbors were single mothers.

I am now leaving this thread.

Andrew

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I was only stating my own personal opinion. I apologize if I offended anyone with my opinion. This evening my neighbors and I were chatting about this case over dinner, and everyone agreed with my opinion. I am really surprised that folks here were offended because when chatting about this, some of the neighbors were single mothers.
I am now leaving this thread.

Andrew

I see....so if other people back up my racist opinions and they happen to be POC, then it's okay for me to say it?

[Thinker]

We're receiving reported posts from this thread. Let's steer clear of any dog-piling situations while the mod team sorts this out.

We'll be back.

Thanks.

Thinker (moderator)

[Scorp]

Personally, I'm done with reading this thread for a couple of reasons. Mostly because I may say something out of line and be considered a vigilante and it will be viewed as inappropriate (even though in my mind I feel differently) and I'm saying that openly here.

In time the truth will come out because it usually has a way of doing so.

Lastly, and most importantly, rest in peace sweet little Caylee. You're an angel in heaven and will not be forgotten.

- Scorp (unsubscribing from this thread)

[Thinker]

I'm going to steal a page out of June's play book and go through these posts with you; some are problematic and some are not.

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

The jurors distrust of George Anthony really surprised me. I think most of those women jurors were single mothers who just disliked men in my opinion.

Andrew, while it is true that is your opinion, that type of statement is *not* helpful and, as others pointed out, only lends itself to further perpetuate sexist notions. It's really not any different from the age old "lesbians are men haters" thing, and we all know what kind of bullshit that is.

It really was a gross statement to make.

Originally Posted by scootebaby

Andrew,i mean no disrespect,but ur statement of "single women who dislike men" is way off base and out of line. Altho it was a 7/5 split(if i recall correctly) i know of at least 2 female jurors were married. As for George....he made himself look untrusting..the way he went around answering instead of directly,or getting into a pissing match with Baez

Thank you for this. It's really a perfect response to a statement that "throws you for a loop".

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Huh? ...........

A reply like this isn't helpful. It doesn't do anything to further the conversation in a constructive manner, and it can be read as insulting too.

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Can you explain how single mothers = women who dislike men? I find this really offensive as a single mother.

Again, this is a great way to respond to what was written. Ask for clarification. We can say things are offensive without tearing down the person who posted the statement.

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. That is why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors.

This isn't helpful either.

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Yes we all have a right to our opinions but no right to be offensive.

Yes.

Originally Posted by scootebaby

Andrew

I have ALWAYS tried to understand your reasonings and posts when a lot of people jump to the wrong conclusion,or flat out attack you,but your last post was totally a "fuck you" in my eyes to all of "US" single moms...and to me personally because i am the SINGLE mother of a MALE child.


You are right everyone is entitled to their own opinion...i guess kinda like everyone has the right to be an asshole!

scoote, I was just loving this response......until that last little bit. While one can argue you didn't flat out call Andrew an asshole, one can also argue that it sure seems that way.

I understand the feelings involved here, but I believe we can always do better (and you initially did) than resorting to name-calling. Once we go down that road, the person whom we most want to hear us is no longer listening.

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I was only stating my own personal opinion. I apologize if I offended anyone with my opinion. This evening my neighbors and I were chatting about this case over dinner, and everyone agreed with my opinion. I am really surprised that folks here were offended because when chatting about this, some of the neighbors were single mothers.

I am now leaving this thread.

Andrew

Andrew, I think it's wonderful that you returned to apologize and to also explain why you felt safe in sharing your opinion (since it had been reinforced by your friends at home). Thank you for that.

Try to avoid the leaving announcement though. I don't believe anyone here wanted you to leave because you said that. I think they wanted you to understand why it was so offensive to them.

Originally Posted by JustJo

Excuse me?

I know I'm not the first one verbalizing this, but this statement is offensive.

There are an awful lot of us who are single mothers....and I would venture to guess it has no impact on our opinions about men.

As a matter of fact, both my partner and I are the single mothers of boys. Are you trying to tell us we dislike men? And, if so, when are we supposed to suddenly start disliking our sons?

You're calling this an "opinion" - which it is....but it's the same kind of opinion that leads to racism, sexism, sizism, ageism and all of the crap we're all supposedly working hard to rid ourselves of.

It's good to share personal stories as to why that statement was hurtful/offensive to you.......gives the poster another way of looking at things.

As I was working on this post I kept thinking to myself, "I hope no one sees this as condescending." I give you my word there is nothing uppity or all-knowing about sharing out this way.

It really is our hope that members here will be able to have hard discussions with one another without always resorting to the "report" button. If we are able to do that then that means we have said difficult things to one another and we have LISTENED to things that might be hurtful without resorting to name-calling, without feeling stepped to, without feeling personally attacked, etc...

A lot of this shit isn't easy, and it's rarely easy to put personal feelings aside when interacting with another member........and it seems damn near impossible to just ignore the posts of people we don't care for! But that *is* what we're working toward.

We've come a long friggin' way, and the mod/admin team has seen a drop in reports because so many of you are really thinking about what you've written down before you hit the SUBMIT REPLY button. Thank you for that, by the way.

So let's get back on track here.

If you have any questions about this moderation, please contact one of us via PM so as not to further derail this very important discussion.

Thinker (moderator)

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by JustJo

I see....so if other people back up my racist opinions and they happen to be POC, then it's okay for me to say it?

Don't ya know that all you need to not be a racist while espousing racist opinions is to have what June calls a BFTTR--Black Friend to the Rescue. We make it all okay.

This is, of course, a valuable service which I am willing to provide for a small, nominal monthly charge or even barter. For example, I'll be your Black Friend to the Rescue for, say, an iPad 2.


Cheers
Aj

[Toughy]

Our judicial system is not perfect - it has been created by imperfect human beings. But, as many commentators have said - our judicial system is not perfect by any means, but by comparison with other countries, it is the best in the world. I can't say that's completely valid - I only know about US law, and that barely - but in the UK, it is my understanding that one is considered guilty until proven innocent, where in the US, it's the opposite. However you slice it, for me personally, I'd rather deal with our imperfect system then any other country's

If you are comparing our system to dictatorships and some 3rd world countries, yes ours is better. Our law is based on English common law (which is England/UK) which goes back to the late 1700's and maybe even the Magna Carta for trial by jury.

As to the UK.......in criminal cases the burden of proof is on the prosecution just like in the US.

I lived in New Zealand for a year and their judicial system is just as good as ours. Actually I was far less suspicious of the po po (police) when I lived there.....they did not come armed and they knock politely on the door instead of banging on the door with a flashlight. They didn't try to get in the house and were very apologetic for waking me up at midnight. The guy they were looking for did not live at that address any longer.

This idea of US exceptionalism.........we are the best, have the best, work the hardest, have the best system of governing, etc......makes me bonkers. Plus it's insulting to the rest of the world that operate as democracies. As near as I can tell a number of those democracies work better than ours depending on what indicators you look at. None of them have the death penalty and they all have universal health care for everyone paid for by everyone's tax dollars.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Toughy

This idea of US exceptionalism.........we are the best, have the best, work the hardest, have the best system of governing, etc......makes me bonkers. Plus it's insulting to the rest of the world that operate as democracies. As near as I can tell a number of those democracies work better than ours depending on what indicators you look at. None of them have the death penalty and they all have universal health care for everyone paid for by everyone's tax dollars.

This might be an interesting topic to discuss in depth someplace else but I did want to say this briefly in echo of what you are saying. It is instructive to note that the *newer* democracies (i.e. the ones that came about after WW II in the wake of dismantling of the English, French and Dutch colonies) have *not* modeled their constitutions on the US Constitution. Rather, they have used the constitutions of other Western democratic republics. In fact, even Japan whose post-WW II constitution was all but written by MacArthur uses a parliamentary system. Other than that and excluding Iraq (for obvious reasons)not a single nation that became a democracy in the 20th century has a constitution modeled on the US Constitution. Not a one. The last nation to do so was the Philippines and that was in 1899 when they became a colony of the US in all but name. Before that it was Liberia in 1847.

Cheers
Aj

[NJFemmie]

More than 800,000 people have now signed the Change.org petition for Caylee's Law, as legislators in at least 16 states have pledged to introduce their own Caylee's Laws.

Other states where lawmakers are considering such measures include Georgia, Kansas, Louisiana, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas and West Virginia, according to news reports.

Florida's proposal would make it a felony for a parent or other caregiver to not report a child under the age of 12 missing after 48 hours. It also makes it a felony to not report a child's death or "location of a child's corpse" to police within two hours of the death.
Had Florida's measure been in place and Anthony been convicted, she could have faced another 15 years behind bars.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz1RcBHZx24

[Heart]

NYT editorial - it's not the justice system that's at fault, it's the opportunism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/op...runi.html?_r=1