This is a tough one (regarding child maltreatment)

moxie · 07-14-2011, 08:24 PM

As a therapist, I worked only with clients with open CPS cases for years in my current state of residence. And I am basing everything I am saying on my experience and rules here in my state.

I have made numerous reports, none of which were anonymous and many of which were not investigated by CPS; however, the anonymity of an anonymous report is based on the fact that they won't be able to follow up with you to get more details. If you give your name and such when you make a report, the investigative and on-going (if it gets to that point) CPS workers ARE NOT supposed to tell the family they are investigating/open on who made the report. That part is supposed to always remains anonymous to the family no matter if you made an anonymous report or not. Does this always happen? Hell no. But it is supposed to, at least here it is.

I would talk to the apartment complex about the smoke if you can smell it all the way in your apartment, I would do that whether there were kids or not because I am persnickety about that. If the "fight" between the guy and his GF got physical there is the whole domestic violence aspect you need to report. If not, and you do not suspect any physical abuse or obvious neglect,I would say that you would have to have a REALLY good relationship with Duane to be able to talk with him about it because if you don't he may feel like you are trying to tell him how to parent and are meddling.

Outlaw · 07-14-2011, 09:11 PM

I say...

Watch and listen first, and ask yourself...

Is this child being abused?

In Massachusetts, abuse is defined as any non-accidental act by a caretaker
upon a child under age 18 which causes, or creates a substantial risk of,
physical or emotional injury...

Is this child being neglected?

In Massachusetts neglect is defined as the failure by a caretaker, either deliberately or through negligence/inability, to take those actions necessary to provide a child with minimally adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, supervision, emotional stability and growth, or other essential care; as long as that inability is not due to poverty or disability alone...

Does this child need to be protected from the adults charged with their care?

and

What is the harm to the child?

Physical Injury: like death, broken bones, blood on the surface of the brain, burns, internal injuries, swelling, bruising, addiction/exposure to drugs in utero...

Emotional Injury: an injury of impairment, a disorder of the intellectual
or psychological capacity of a child that can be as evidenced by observation or any substantial reduction in the child’s ability to function within a normal
range of performance and behavior...

Overcrowding and smoking CAN cause harm to a child...but so can peanuts.

You don't have to like how other people live or even share their values, but visiting Child Protective Services upon a family comes with a huge burden in and of itself.

Decision making motivated liability and the potential harm to self/career/license are emotionally motivated. Having some criteria around what constitutes abuse and what is the harm to the child helps people make more logical decisions even in an emotionally charged environment.

I hope this discussion has been helpful to you.

Soft*Silver · 07-14-2011, 09:24 PM

my daughter was in her first year of teaching kindergarten last year and she came to me one night and asked me if she should report something. I will tell you what I told her. Yours is not to determine if there is abuse or not going on. Yours is to call in suspicion of abuse. Just because you call in as a mandated reporter, doesnt mean the Childrens Services will report you are the one who called in the information. Especially in your circumstance where you are a neighbor, not a teacher of these children. Leave the investigative stuff up to the professionals in that arena. You arent calling in to be malicious. You are calling in because you have doubts about the welfare of the children.

Who knows, maybe they have a record of calls already into the CPS. Maybe they dont. Maybe the baby cries because its miserable in the smoking environment. Maybe because its hungry. Maybe because it has an infected diaper rash. So many maybes....none of which YOU need to worry about if its true or not. YOU need to just report it and let them investigate. If its nothing, fine. Its nothing. If its something, then you saved a kid.

the only way you can get in trouble FOR calling in, is if you did it for malicious reasons. Obviously thats not the intent here.

tantalizingfemme · 07-14-2011, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by softness

my daughter was in her first year of teaching kindergarten last year and she came to me one night and asked me if she should report something. I will tell you what I told her. Yours is not to determine if there is abuse or not going on. Yours is to call in suspicion of abuse. Just because you call in as a mandated reporter, doesnt mean the Childrens Services will report you are the one who called in the information. Especially in your circumstance where you are a neighbor, not a teacher of these children. Leave the investigative stuff up to the professionals in that arena. You arent calling in to be malicious. You are calling in because you have doubts about the welfare of the children.

Who knows, maybe they have a record of calls already into the CPS. Maybe they dont. Maybe the baby cries because its miserable in the smoking environment. Maybe because its hungry. Maybe because it has an infected diaper rash. So many maybes....none of which YOU need to worry about if its true or not. YOU need to just report it and let them investigate. If its
nothing, fine. Its nothing. If its something, then you saved a kid.

the only way you can get in trouble FOR calling in, is if you did it for malicious reasons. Obviously thats not the intent here.

Those maybes can potentially cause some serious damage.

There is no room for assumption or personal opinion or heresay when it comes to something as serious as calling CPS. Facts are facts are facts.

CPS isn't a game.... it is very serious.

Outlaw · 07-14-2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puregrrl

CPS workers ARE NOT supposed to tell the family they are investigating/open on who made the report. That part is supposed to always remains anonymous to the family no matter if you made an anonymous report or not. Does this always happen? Hell no. But it is supposed to, at least here it is.

In Massachusetts, The Department of Children and Families does not release the name of the reporter unless the case is referred to The District Attorney's Office for Prosecution, and then the Department can release any reporter's identifying information to that office.

Laws, policy and procedure vary greatly from state to state as evidenced in the significant differences I've noted while working in the same field in both New York and Massachusetts.

Mister Bent · 07-14-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puregrrl

As a therapist, I worked only with clients with open CPS cases for years in my current state of residence. And I am basing everything I am saying on my experience and rules here in my state.

I have made numerous reports, none of which were anonymous and many of which were not investigated by CPS; however, the anonymity of an anonymous report is based on the fact that they won't be able to follow up with you to get more details. If you give your name and such when you make a report, the investigative and on-going (if it gets to that point) CPS workers ARE NOT supposed to tell the family they are investigating/open on who made the report. That part is supposed to always remains anonymous to the family no matter if you made an anonymous report or not. Does this always happen? Hell no. But it is supposed to, at least here it is.

I would talk to the apartment complex about the smoke if you can smell it all the way in your apartment, I would do that whether there were kids or not because I am persnickety about that. If the "fight" between the guy and his GF got physical there is the whole domestic violence aspect you need to report. If not, and you do not suspect any physical abuse or obvious neglect,I would say that you would have to have a REALLY good relationship with Duane to be able to talk with him about it because if you don't he may feel like you are trying to tell him how to parent and are meddling.

This, particularly the entire last paragraph seems exactly right. Adult, sound and addresses the reasonable concerns.

And after all that, keep paying attention.

Novelafemme · 07-14-2011, 09:46 PM

Such great advice here. And I will throw in my two cents as well.

I lived in an apartment complex for almost a year and saw some crazy stuff go on...one situation that was very similar to yours. What I ended up doing was calling the non-emergency 911 number and they patched me through to the department in charge of anonymous child welfare concerns. They took my call very seriously and converged on the apartment within 24 hours. I also called an animal abuse hotline as there was a dog being severely neglected there as well. They also came within 24 hours. As it turned out, the mother had allowed her ex-boyfriend back into the apartment even after he had been incarcerated for 4 years for molesting her then 5 year old daughter. This little girl played with my daughters and confided in them that she had to sleep in bed with them at night. I simply could not sit by and do nothing.

Trust your gut and be an advocate for the innocent. I have never once regretted my decision.

tantalizingfemme · 07-14-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

This little girl played with my daughters and confided in them that she had to sleep in bed with them at night. I simply could not sit by and do nothing.
Trust your gut and be an advocate for the innocent. I have never once regretted my decision.

I think that you are to be commended for stepping up and helping that young girl! You took information presented to you by the victim and moved forward.

To me, that is much different than watching something from the outside and making an assumption based on your own opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and/or gut instinct and then calling it in.

That little girl is lucky you were there.

ETA: I think what I am struggling with in some of the posts is this attitude to just "throw caution to the wind" and report it so CPS and let "them" sort it all out. That is not what they are there for and there can be very serious, long-term reprocussions to it.

Novelafemme · 07-14-2011, 10:00 PM

true...but even if i didn't have that first-hand information I would have made the same choice. Placing a call to authorities to investigate a suspicious living arrangement is well within ones rights. Especially when infants and children are involved.

Soft*Silver · 07-14-2011, 10:06 PM

I am not suggesting calling on a whim. She was clear about her concerns. I am also addressing her as a professional to a professional. Again, she is not doing this on a whim. No one suggested calling on a whim...thats when reprocussions would occur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

ETA: I think what I am struggling with in some of the posts is this attitude to just "throw caution to the wind" and report it so CPS and let "them" sort it all out. That is not what they are there for and there can be very serious, long-term reprocussions to it.

tantalizingfemme · 07-14-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by softness

I am not suggesting calling on a whim. She was clear about her concerns. I am also addressing her as a professional to a professional. Again, she is not doing this on a whim. No one suggested calling on a whim...thats when reprocussions would occur.

And this is what I am talking about... whims. You must have some kind of factual information behind accusing someone of something; not just "I think", "I feel" , I believe".

Heart · 07-15-2011, 06:40 AM

Adult domestic violence, (I mean actual violence and control, not yelling and arguing), in and of itself, is not reportable to CPS, it's a 911 call. This is an important distinction. If children are caught in the crossfire -(or you suspect, from what you hear and see that they might be), then reporting may be necessary.

Be aware that when CPS is called into a DV situation, they have on many occasions removed children from non-offending mothers and left the mother there to deal with her abuser. They have also charged non-offending mothers with failing to protect their children because they "allowed" DV to happen in the children's presence. CPS is notorious for punishing victim mothers, and traumatizing children through removal, and doing nothing to hold abusers accountable. In NY there was a class action lawsuit related to this called Nicholson vs Scoppetta. The class won, and ACS was ordered by a Federal judge to stop removing children from battered mothers and instead offer safety options and services.

07-14-2011, 08:24 PM	#1
moxie Senior Member How Do You Identify?: a cynical princess wannabe Preferred Pronoun?: lipgloss junkie Relationship Status: yep Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: the ville Posts: 3,027 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,544 Thanked 6,769 Times in 1,846 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	As a therapist, I worked only with clients with open CPS cases for years in my current state of residence. And I am basing everything I am saying on my experience and rules here in my state. I have made numerous reports, none of which were anonymous and many of which were not investigated by CPS; however, the anonymity of an anonymous report is based on the fact that they won't be able to follow up with you to get more details. If you give your name and such when you make a report, the investigative and on-going (if it gets to that point) CPS workers ARE NOT supposed to tell the family they are investigating/open on who made the report. That part is supposed to always remains anonymous to the family no matter if you made an anonymous report or not. Does this always happen? Hell no. But it is supposed to, at least here it is. I would talk to the apartment complex about the smoke if you can smell it all the way in your apartment, I would do that whether there were kids or not because I am persnickety about that. If the "fight" between the guy and his GF got physical there is the whole domestic violence aspect you need to report. If not, and you do not suspect any physical abuse or obvious neglect,I would say that you would have to have a REALLY good relationship with Duane to be able to talk with him about it because if you don't he may feel like you are trying to tell him how to parent and are meddling. __________________ "Accept what people offer. Drink their milkshakes. Take their love." - Wally Lamb Last edited by moxie; 07-14-2011 at 08:34 PM. Reason: adding stuff

07-14-2011, 09:11 PM	#2
Outlaw Member How Do You Identify?: Cocksure Preferred Pronoun?: Cotton Candy Swami Relationship Status: Loved and Loving Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Home Posts: 241 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 966 Thanked 498 Times in 126 Posts Rep Power: 6766756	I say... Watch and listen first, and ask yourself... Is this child being abused? In Massachusetts, abuse is defined as any non-accidental act by a caretaker upon a child under age 18 which causes, or creates a substantial risk of, physical or emotional injury... Is this child being neglected? In Massachusetts neglect is defined as the failure by a caretaker, either deliberately or through negligence/inability, to take those actions necessary to provide a child with minimally adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, supervision, emotional stability and growth, or other essential care; as long as that inability is not due to poverty or disability alone... Does this child need to be protected from the adults charged with their care? and What is the harm to the child? Physical Injury: like death, broken bones, blood on the surface of the brain, burns, internal injuries, swelling, bruising, addiction/exposure to drugs in utero... Emotional Injury: an injury of impairment, a disorder of the intellectual or psychological capacity of a child that can be as evidenced by observation or any substantial reduction in the child’s ability to function within a normal range of performance and behavior... Overcrowding and smoking CAN cause harm to a child...but so can peanuts. You don't have to like how other people live or even share their values, but visiting Child Protective Services upon a family comes with a huge burden in and of itself. Decision making motivated liability and the potential harm to self/career/license are emotionally motivated. Having some criteria around what constitutes abuse and what is the harm to the child helps people make more logical decisions even in an emotionally charged environment. I hope this discussion has been helpful to you. __________________ All Rivers Lead To The Sea... Last edited by Outlaw; 07-14-2011 at 09:12 PM. Reason: paraphrasing elipses

07-14-2011, 09:24 PM	#3
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,517 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,495 Thanked 15,666 Times in 3,992 Posts Rep Power*: 21474856	my daughter was in her first year of teaching kindergarten last year and she came to me one night and asked me if she should report something. I will tell you what I told her. Yours is not to determine if there is abuse or not going on. Yours is to call in suspicion of abuse. Just because you call in as a mandated reporter, doesnt mean the Childrens Services will report you are the one who called in the information. Especially in your circumstance where you are a neighbor, not a teacher of these children. Leave the investigative stuff up to the professionals in that arena. You arent calling in to be malicious. You are calling in because you have doubts about the welfare of the children. Who knows, maybe they have a record of calls already into the CPS. Maybe they dont. Maybe the baby cries because its miserable in the smoking environment. Maybe because its hungry. Maybe because it has an infected diaper rash. So many maybes....none of which YOU need to worry about if its true or not. YOU need to just report it and let them investigate. If its nothing, fine. Its nothing. If its something, then you saved a kid. the only way you can get in trouble FOR calling in, is if you did it for malicious reasons. Obviously thats not the intent here. __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

07-14-2011, 09:46 PM	#7
Novelafemme Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ........ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ........ Posts: 2,402 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,981 Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts Rep Power: 0	Such great advice here. And I will throw in my two cents as well. I lived in an apartment complex for almost a year and saw some crazy stuff go on...one situation that was very similar to yours. What I ended up doing was calling the non-emergency 911 number and they patched me through to the department in charge of anonymous child welfare concerns. They took my call very seriously and converged on the apartment within 24 hours. I also called an animal abuse hotline as there was a dog being severely neglected there as well. They also came within 24 hours. As it turned out, the mother had allowed her ex-boyfriend back into the apartment even after he had been incarcerated for 4 years for molesting her then 5 year old daughter. This little girl played with my daughters and confided in them that she had to sleep in bed with them at night. I simply could not sit by and do nothing. Trust your gut and be an advocate for the innocent. I have never once regretted my decision.

07-14-2011, 10:00 PM	#9
Novelafemme Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ........ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ........ Posts: 2,402 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,981 Thanked 8,925 Times in 1,834 Posts Rep Power: 0	true...but even if i didn't have that first-hand information I would have made the same choice. Placing a call to authorities to investigate a suspicious living arrangement is well within ones rights. Especially when infants and children are involved.

07-15-2011, 06:40 AM	#12
Heart Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Posts: 466 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 303 Thanked 2,531 Times in 412 Posts Rep Power: 12032609	Adult domestic violence, (I mean actual violence and control, not yelling and arguing), in and of itself, is not reportable to CPS, it's a 911 call. This is an important distinction. If children are caught in the crossfire -(or you suspect, from what you hear and see that they might be), then reporting may be necessary. Be aware that when CPS is called into a DV situation, they have on many occasions removed children from non-offending mothers and left the mother there to deal with her abuser. They have also charged non-offending mothers with failing to protect their children because they "allowed" DV to happen in the children's presence. CPS is notorious for punishing victim mothers, and traumatizing children through removal, and doing nothing to hold abusers accountable. In NY there was a class action lawsuit related to this called Nicholson vs Scoppetta. The class won, and ACS was ordered by a Federal judge to stop removing children from battered mothers and instead offer safety options and services.