Trans News/ Issues

[EnderD_503]

I think it's very important to look at the transphobia related to hiring only katoeys, in particular. I say transphobia especially, because I firmly believe that it's important for trans rights to recognise the differences/uniqueness between transphobia vs. misogyny or homophobia. It's important for trans visibility to recognise transphobia as distinct and within its own right. I think it's important to discuss that when it comes to an article or topic relating to trans issues.

I do think the airline in question is being extremely transphobic as it is intent on using katoeys as commodities. Katoeys may have achieved a higher level of visibility within Thai culture, but they have not necessarily reached a higher level of respect, given that most katoeys are employed in sex work, the beauty industry or other similar industries. They have a difficult time finding work outside those industries in Thailand, and so I think it's rather telling that this airline is intent on hiring katoeys and using them for publicity.

It's also interesting to note that transmen are pretty much entirely invisible in Thai culture, so when you say (or the article says) that the airline is now hiring transfolks, they are actually only hiring katoeys who are distinct from a number of others along the trans spectrum. Why? Because of the "notoriety" and "image" of katoeys specifically.

Just like the thread I started a while back about Pakistani transwomen in particular being targeted by the government to be hired as tax collectors, it's obvious trans people are once more being used by people who really couldn't care less about them, and non-trans society's curiosities and fears regarding trans people being played up in order for the role/publicity to be successful.

Edit: Also about your comments about not hiring effeminate men (who can also be considered katoey) or butch women. I'm not sure how correct you are there, unless you've read something I've not. Thai society interacts with these identities differently than Western society.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I think it's very important to look at the transphobia related to hiring only katoeys, in particular. I say transphobia especially, because I firmly believe that it's important for trans rights to recognise the differences/uniqueness between transphobia vs. misogyny or homophobia. It's important for trans visibility to recognise transphobia as distinct and within its own right. I think it's important to discuss that when it comes to an article or topic relating to trans issues.

I do think the airline in question is being extremely transphobic as it is intent on using katoeys as commodities. Katoeys may have achieved a higher level of visibility within Thai culture, but they have not necessarily reached a higher level of respect, given that most katoeys are employed in sex work, the beauty industry or other similar industries. They have a difficult time finding work outside those industries in Thailand, and so I think it's rather telling that this airline is intent on hiring katoeys and using them for publicity.

It's also interesting to note that transmen are pretty much entirely invisible in Thai culture, so when you say (or the article says) that the airline is now hiring transfolks, they are actually only hiring katoeys who are distinct from a number of others along the trans spectrum. Why? Because of the "notoriety" and "image" of katoeys specifically.

Just like the thread I started a while back about Pakistani transwomen in particular being targeted by the government to be hired as tax collectors, it's obvious trans people are once more being used by people who really couldn't care less about them, and non-trans society's curiosities and fears regarding trans people being played up in order for the role/publicity to be successful.

Edit: Also about your comments about not hiring effeminate men (who can also be considered katoey) or butch women. I'm not sure how correct you are there, unless you've read something I've not. Thai society interacts with these identities differently than Western society.

I get your point in wanting to separate the trans issues from the other obvious issues of sexism. Point taken. I do get the "sideshow/freakshow" attention the airline seems intent on profiting from.

Regarding your "edit", I am quite sure I said it was my own take on what the article read to "me". I gathered my guess on the statements of how long they spent with the transwomen to "make sure they were feminine enough", which at least in my 48 years I have rarely found many butch women who would pass that test, mostly because we wouldn't have the patience to tolerate the bullshit of it.

Not being familiar with the specific ways in which the population of Thailand interacts with these identities, you may be correct in that I may be wrong. I am reading this article strictly from my limited knowledge base and to me, it seems quite clear the airline exercises several forms of gender based discrimination. I placed it in the trans issues thread, as the title of the articles were geared toward how "trans-friendly" they "appear" to be.

[Blade]

http://www.transpoc.com/default.html
TransPeople of Color Coalition (TPOCC) is the only national social justice organization that promotes the interest of Trans People of Color. TPOCC is an organization to inspire and nurture collaboration among communities of color dedicated to anti-racism and fighting transphobia and the empowerment of transgender persons of color. We work to strengthen and mobilize individuals, families, and communities by changing laws, educating the public, and building social and economic strength among all persons of color

http://www.awarenessmovement.org/default.html
We are a Not-For-Profit Organization and support group with the sole purpose of providing a better life for all Transgendered individuals. Our organization is based on the belief that all Transpeople should have a voice and have equal rights. We will not continue to sit back and be invisible.

[weatherboi]

http://feministing.com/2011/09/15/10...medium=twitter

I love it when we get to hear from young people about what’s going on in their own lives. Too often, the voices of those most impacted by youth issues are ignored in favor of adults. So I was glad to read the words of a 10-year-old trans girl in England who returned to school this year presenting her actual gender.

The girl’s mom told the Worcester News (in an article unfortunately trapped in the “trapped in the wrong body” frame, but which does keep the girl’s identity anonymous) that the school administration has been supportive of letting her daughter present as a girl, but some parents have walked by them muttering, “That’s that freak family. That’s that freak child.”

Her mom said there has been some bullying from the girl’s peers, but that the cruelty has mostly come from adults. Now let’s hear from the girl herself about how she’s been treated by her friends at school. From an interview on BBC 5 Live, via Pink News:

Of her friends, she said: “They haven’t really said anything. It’s been a little eye-up and then, ‘Whatever’.

“They haven’t really taken any notice. There have been a couple of little glitches but that’ll pass.”

However, she said she was forced to change for games in the disabled toilet after parents complained.

“It is split for girls and boys, but in PE and stuff I do have to be with the boys’ team,” she said.

“But my friends stick up for me and say, ‘He feels like a girl so he can be on the girls’ team’.”

I hope it’s clear that the acceptance she’s felt from her peers is much more important than the specific pronoun they use. Yes, language matters, but I know I greatly prefer the support I get from a friend who genuinely accepts me as myself, even if they’re not up on all the lingo, to someone who talks the talk but doesn’t ultimately treat my identity as valid.

Further, this girl’s experience is a pretty great refutation of “won’t somebody think of the children!”-type moral panic. Actually, seems like the kids will be fine, provided adults don’t poison them with their own hateful ideas.

h/t Dr. Jillian Weiss

[J. Mason]

What does everyone think about the repeal of don't ask, don't tell? Does this apply to the trans community?

[Jess]

Interesting question, J. Mason. I am not really sure how the military "deals" with or doesn't "deal" with trans persons. I guess I see it ( and this maybe my lack of knowledge) as a separate issue.
DADT, I think, speaks exclusively to the homosexual population within the ranks. I would think that trans issues may be different in a couple of ways, in that a) not all trans persons are homosexual and b) housing/ job assignments/etc are based on physical expression of gender/sex in the military. There really isn't a way to enter the military and "pass" as a sex/gender other than birth assigned, as everyone goes through a pretty thorough physical exam.

It is a very interesting question. I don't personally know any trans people serving ( past or present), but would be interested in hearing how they dealt with it ( serving actively) and how they were treated.

Thanks.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

What does everyone think about the repeal of don't ask, don't tell? Does this apply to the trans community?

To answer your question. DADT was only dropped for LBG people. Trans people were never in the equation, ever. I do think this needs to be addressed as there are Trans people who have served, but did not transition during their service. For a person such as myself who did serve, I did so as a female bodied person, even though my mind said otherwise. So far the legal issues have been only for our LBG sisters and brothers, it has left the Trans community high and dry. So will out LBG sisters and brothers get behind including their Trans brothers and sisters? I guess we'll have to wait and see. Personally I don't see LBG folks racing to include Transpeople in most anything. This site being the exception to the rule.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Actually, seems like the kids will be fine, provided adults don’t poison them with their own hateful ideas.

Exactly. Kids don't think there is something wrong with "difference" until we tell them there is.

[J. Mason]

Ugh that just sucks that us trans folks were not included in the DADT.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

Ugh that just sucks that us trans folks were not included in the DADT.

Nor ENDA, there still time to fight for this one.