Reclaiming Lesbian Pride

[msW8ing]

First..awesome thread idea..It doesn't matter how hard I try..I cannot keep up with all the different ID's now and days..I guess because I treat everyone as individuals but always respect thier choices..I admire some for thier convictions and not backing down. Personally I prefer to call myself a lesbian because for myself putting a lable on me is like trying to describe myself in one little box..it just can't be done..I'm ever evolving and learning and growing and changing. But the one thing I"m sure of..I have always been attracted to butch/masculine women..reminded of a conversation I had with my daughter not too long ago. She was asking what my "type" was..I thought for a moment and said well it's kinda like this...I prefer them like my bread...hard and crusty on the outside but soft and warm on the inside. She laughed hysterically of course and said lets go get some lunch. But it's true. I adore a hard looking butch/masculine woman who is a soft, gooshy, romantic on the inside. Just my .02 cents.

[OS Butch]

I always gravitate to the threads that are in the Lesbian Zone.
It always stuck me as odd when people wonder why there is a need for this or that kind of thread.
Coming out 35 years ago, I didn't then and still don't mind the term Lesbian. It actually is my preference in terms referring to myself....I tack on Butch and have in the past used WI (Woman Identified) and joke that it did not mean Wisconsin . FIB..... hmmm.. I assume there is a difference in being female identified and woman identified.... I really don't care. I am a Butch Lesbian.. or is it Lesbian Butch? WTH...

Hi, I am Joan, aka Jo, much easier I am the person to whom you are speaking.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by OS Butch

I always gravitate to the threads that are in the Lesbian Zone.
It always stuck me as odd when people wonder why there is a need for this or that kind of thread.
Coming out 35 years ago, I didn't then and still don't mind the term Lesbian. It actually is my preference in terms referring to myself....I tack on Butch and have in the past used WI (Woman Identified) and joke that it did not mean Wisconsin . FIB..... hmmm.. I assume there is a difference in being female identified and woman identified.... I really don't care. I am a Butch Lesbian.. or is it Lesbian Butch? WTH...

Hi, I am Joan, aka Jo, much easier I am the person to whom you are speaking.

Welcome Jo! I hear you. It struck me odd as well.

Then again, we all had different experiences, opportunities, and needs in developing our own unique "queerness". These are reflected in so many different ways in our lives and identities these days.

The complexities to which I am exposed to via the internet never cease to amaze and confuse me. I like simple. Then again, my definition of simple may not be the same as someone else's.

I have always been comfortable with lesbian. It seems the more accurate description of my reality and experience. I have tried adding qualifiers to it but they just don't feel right/accurate and they can feel very confining to me. Using lesbian, to me, gives me more freedom to express who I am without being locked into anything or pigeonholed into anything. It's liberating.

Thank you for bringing up WI (not Wisconsin). I dont know if there is a difference between WI and FI - I'm pretty sure someone knows but it sure as heck isn't me. LOL.

I'd like to see more activity in the lesbian zone. I'm just not sure what direction it should/could go in. Have any suggestions?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by OS Butch

I always gravitate to the threads that are in the Lesbian Zone.
It always stuck me as odd when people wonder why there is a need for this or that kind of thread.
Coming out 35 years ago, I didn't then and still don't mind the term Lesbian. It actually is my preference in terms referring to myself....I tack on Butch and have in the past used WI (Woman Identified) and joke that it did not mean Wisconsin . FIB..... hmmm.. I assume there is a difference in being female identified and woman identified.... I really don't care. I am a Butch Lesbian.. or is it Lesbian Butch? WTH...Hi, I am Joan, aka Jo, much easier I am the person to whom you are speaking.

Originally Posted by Kobi

Welcome Jo! I hear you. It struck me odd as well.

Then again, we all had different experiences, opportunities, and needs in developing our own unique "queerness". These are reflected in so many different ways in our lives and identities these days.

The complexities to which I am exposed to via the internet never cease to amaze and confuse me. I like simple. Then again, my definition of simple may not be the same as someone else's.

I have always been comfortable with lesbian. It seems the more accurate description of my reality and experience. I have tried adding qualifiers to it but they just don't feel right/accurate and they can feel very confining to me. Using lesbian, to me, gives me more freedom to express who I am without being locked into anything or pigeonholed into anything. It's liberating.

Thank you for bringing up WI (not Wisconsin). I dont know if there is a difference between WI and FI - I'm pretty sure someone knows but it sure as heck isn't me. LOL.I'd like to see more activity in the lesbian zone. I'm just not sure what direction it should/could go in. Have any suggestions?

Some people regard the term female = sex and woman = gender.

There are definitely butches who define as female, but not as women. I defined that way for many years and know quite a many butch who still does. Here the term woman is seen as being connected to a social construct, rather than it being connected to one's biology.

(Hope you were actually asking the question?)

[tapu]

SRSLY? Those are known, culturally-shared distinctions? Isn't it awfully easy for people not versed in it to screw it up?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by tapu

SRSLY? Those are known, culturally-shared distinctions? Isn't it awfully easy for people not versed in it to screw it up?

Hey, tapu. Yes, and yes! :-) Identifiers are like that.

I am going to step out of the lesbian zone. I am not looking to have a discussion on this, I was only looking to answer the question, as I think that Kobi was sincerely curious.

Have a good day.

[tapu]

Well... there's a real difference between the kind of identifiers you are listing and the set of widely used identifiers of gender and sex in our culture.

If this isn't the place to go into it, though, I'm fine with that.

Thanks DB.


ER... Wait a minute. You seem to have edited your original post on this. I've been responding to the original, where you listed more configurations of gender/sex identifiers.

[Chazz]

For the sake of clarity, and in the the spirit of reclaiming lesbian heritage and grammatical correctness - neoPolitical Correctness be damned (I never signed on for that, anyway):


female/woman (noun) = sex/biology
male/man (noun) = sex/biology

lesbian (noun) = a woman of same sex, sexual orientation

feminine/masculine (adj.) = gender

femme (noun) = female lesbian
butch (noun) = female lesbian who expresses female "masculinity"

transgender (verb) = moving along a gender continuum.

transgender person (noun) = a person of either sex, who may be lesbian, gay or straight.

Using adjectives as nouns is not good grammar, nor is it good politics. It just muddies the water. Non-lesbians, who lay claim to lesbian descriptors, are the ones obliged to clarify through expanded labeling.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Some people regard the term female = sex and woman = gender.

There are definitely butches who define as female, but not as women. They often see butch as their gender.

Just like there are some who identify as female (their sex) , as a butch (their gender), and as a woman (their gender).

Hopes that helped (I am assuming you were actually wondering?). :-)

Thanks Dapper! I knew someone would have the answer.

This kind of illustrates why I prefer to stick with lesbian - by todays standards, I think, it indicates quite clearly gender, sex, and orientation in one word.

Then again, I could be wrong about that too. LOL. I should see if there is a remedial lesbian course somewhere.

[tapu]

Ah! Kobi has the original post. Now I don't sound quite so stupid....

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by tapu

Well... there's a real difference between the kind of identifiers you are listing and the set of widely used identifiers of gender and sex in our culture.

If this isn't the place to go into it, though, I'm fine with that.

Thanks DB.


ER... Wait a minute. You seem to have edited your original post on this. I've been responding to the original, where you listed more configurations of gender/sex identifiers.

Originally Posted by tapu

Ah! Kobi has the original post. Now I don't sound quite so stupid....

Yes, I edited b/c I felt like I was throwing too much info. out there when I really didn't want to get into a discussion about it. I felt that I was already being intrusive by writing in the lesbian zone, so I was seeking a way to give Kobi a short answer without having discussion follow. I did not want to say anything that would derail from any direction you all might have wanted to take this thread.

Originally Posted by Kobi

Thanks Dapper! I knew someone would have the answer.

This kind of illustrates why I prefer to stick with lesbian - by todays standards, I think, it indicates quite clearly gender, sex, and orientation in one word.

Yes, I agree, Kobi. Lesbian is pretty clear cut!
Then again, I could be wrong about that too. LOL. I should see if there is a remedial lesbian course somewhere.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Yes, I edited b/c I felt like I was throwing too much info. out there when I really didn't want to get into a discussion about it. I felt that I was already being intrusive by writing in the lesbian zone, so I was seeking a way to give Kobi a short answer without having discussion follow. I did not want to say anything that would derail from any direction you all might have wanted to take this thread.

Dapper,

You mean I did get the definition of lesbian correct? I am pleased.

Thank you for being respectful. It is much appreciated. Tho, please keeping looking in and helping out. That is appreciated as well.

[OS Butch]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Yes, I edited b/c I felt like I was throwing too much info. out there when I really didn't want to get into a discussion about it. I felt that I was already being intrusive by writing in the lesbian zone, so I was seeking a way to give Kobi a short answer without having discussion follow. I did not want to say anything that would derail from any direction you all might have wanted to take this thread.

Really? I do really appreciate any enlightenment on these issues no matter who is giving it or how they identify..... Although I have had issues with my local friends that would tell me how I should be raising my kid....and they never had kids....But that is for another thread

[OS Butch]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Some people regard the term female = sex and woman = gender.

There are definitely butches who define as female, but not as women. I defined that way for many years and know quite a many butch who still does. Here the term woman is seen as being connected to a social construct, rather than it being connected to one's biology.

(Hope you were actually asking the question?)

I was actually asking. Thanks for responding. For me, I am both, female, woman and Butch to boot! What a deal I am!

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by OS Butch

I was actually asking. Thanks for responding. For me, I am both, female, woman and Butch to boot! What a deal I am!

Three for the price of one. That sounds like quite the deal, indeed.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by MsW8ing

First..awesome thread idea..It doesn't matter how hard I try..I cannot keep up with all the different ID's now and days..I guess because I treat everyone as individuals but always respect thier choices..I admire some for thier convictions and not backing down. Personally I prefer to call myself a lesbian because for myself putting a lable on me is like trying to describe myself in one little box..it just can't be done..I'm ever evolving and learning and growing and changing. But the one thing I"m sure of..I have always been attracted to butch/masculine women..reminded of a conversation I had with my daughter not too long ago. She was asking what my "type" was..I thought for a moment and said well it's kinda like this...I prefer them like my bread...hard and crusty on the outside but soft and warm on the inside. She laughed hysterically of course and said lets go get some lunch. But it's true. I adore a hard looking butch/masculine woman who is a soft, gooshy, romantic on the inside. Just my .02 cents.

Welcome MsW. And thank you for introducing us to Butch Bread. I will have to see if the bakery carries any LOL.

Is it possible FIB might mean female in bread? Or do I, perhaps, just need sleep?

[msW8ing]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Welcome MsW. And thank you for introducing us to Butch Bread. I will have to see if the bakery carries any LOL.

Is it possible FIB might mean female in bread? Or do I, perhaps, just need sleep?

Oh my dear Kobi, how you make me laugh..I so needed that this Sunday morning. I adore your humor.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by MsW8ing

Oh my dear Kobi, how you make me laugh..I so needed that this Sunday morning. I adore your humor.

MsW, I want you to know, I stopped by the bakery section of the market on my way home today. I asked the cute little dyke behind the counter where I could find the Butch bread with the hard crust and soft, squishy insides.

She wasnt a dyke. She did not find Butch bread to be amusing. And, I think, I now have a reputation for being the crazy lady with early Alzheimers.

I really should check my files and see if the recall notice for my gaydar is still active.

[msW8ing]

Originally Posted by Kobi

MsW, I want you to know, I stopped by the bakery section of the market on my way home today. I asked the cute little dyke behind the counter where I could find the Butch bread with the hard crust and soft, squishy insides.

She wasnt a dyke. She did not find Butch bread to be amusing. And, I think, I now have a reputation for being the crazy lady with early Alzheimers.

I really should check my files and see if the recall notice for my gaydar is still active.

Do not feel alone on this one Kobi..I used to have gaydar that was sharp as a tact..now in my old age I'm thinking it's dull and rusty. Of course I'm thinking most of my mind is getting dull and rusty. When my daughter has to point out to me I'm being flirted with..and I look at said flirter and all I can think is.."they are not much older than my own kids". That just puts the on the sundae.