Female Bodies Across Gender Identities

[Stoney]

I see alot of this is about changing room restroom stuff but it all got me thinking ..so I hope Im not too far off subject.

for a really long time I honestly felt almost genderless, I mean I weighed over 400 lbs not many people felt comfortable around me
and I was either completely ignored or whispered about... always the same ( is that a man or a woman..??) I think they were wishing I'd choose a bathroom or changing room just to satisfy their curiosity.
Now that I have lost weight it is a lot different, men are either completely rude, and on the defense or they want me to meet their wife....it is kinda creepy.
I forget sometimes that I look different to people now, and I am no longer "invisible"
"visible" Sometimes feels like "vulnerable" and I dont really like that , so I have to sometimes cut back on the friendly smiles and pointless conversations with men who now readily recognize with a double take I am female.

So yeah ,
I have had some issues. I do Identify as female, always have but no body really seemed to notice that much till I lost all this weight.

[BullDog]

Stoney, thank you for your post. No you are not off topic at all. All subjects on being female bodied (present or past) and how we relate to or experience them from all genders is welcomed.

[Soon]

Want to Participate in Updating “Our Bodies, Ourselves”?

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Want to Participate in Updating “Our Bodies, Ourselves”?

HowSoonIsNow, thank you so much for posting this. Our Bodies Ourselves has been such an important book and project for so many women. The book first came out in 1973 I believe.

They appear to trying to be as inclusive as possible:

"We are seeking the experience and wisdom of heterosexual, lesbian, bisexual and queer women. Perspectives from single women are encouraged, and you may define relationship as it applies to you, from monogamy to multiple partners. We are committed to including women of color, women with disabilities, trans women and women of many ages and backgrounds."

I can't wait for the new edition to come out.

[Dragonfly]

I wanted to respond to the really great points made about placing oneself in a dangerous situation for the sake of someone else's comfort. I dont think anyone should sacrifice their safety or feeling safe to make someone else feel comfortable. We shouldn't as a community promote that sort of mentality because we are not what is "wrong"... the discrimination is wrong.

I had tried to shorten my post and left out a few details about when I choose to use a men's restroom. For one, I never ever sit in any restroom or touch anything so if its dirty I dont really care. If a lady were to look under the door and see my feet she may think it is proof I am a man in there. Plus, I wash real well afterwards lol.

Also the men's dressing room is often a one stall and the womens is often multi stalled where I tend to shop.

Because of the issues I have struggled with, the fact that I am ever alone and vulnerable is a huge triumph for me. I wear men's clothes because they are concealing certain clothing layers that reduce the chances of my being raped. I do not need to remind myself I never stop thinking about how that I am never going to be 100% safe from an assault for being and looking like I do. So More often than not I carry a conceled weapon that would actually cause me more trouble should I too get dragged from the ladies room by security.

With the PTSD that I struggled with for 2 decades now I have evolved alongside very loyal men, and am rarely alone when going into those restrooms. I am usually with Foo or another friend when I am out and about. I am firends with a 90/10 ratio of gendered bio males over Queer or hetero bio females. Yeah Men are bigger than me, some of my girlfriends were bigger than me too. Last year I dated a line backer chick who could toss me over her shoulder and throw me around. lol. Safety in numbers feels safer to me but to some people safe is different things. I need to be safe from persecution and searches because I revolve my life around living with and recovering the best I can. So sometimes I personally choose the less likely risk of another attack, especially in a public restroom when I am usually accompanied everywhere I go anyway, over the daily rubbing in my face how disgusting I am to society to dress so masculine yet be so obviously female bodied. I could only pass for male back in the 80's when my skater friends had long hair and flannels too... And then only from a distance,



My daughter believes society will catch up as soon as the asshats die off. Then all that is left is a majority rule of acceptance generations. I hope so too...

[Dragonfly]

It so sucked. I hate having to go to those sections and get the look. No more malls, I'll stick to the cheaper places.

[BornBronson]

I guess you could say i've learned to love my female body,but it wasn't always like that.My teenage years were the worst.I've always dressed in men clothes,not that I ever wanted to be a man it's just that my body was never made to wear a dress.I have muscular shoulders and no ass.I would not look good in anything that was made for the female body,trust me.God gave me this body and it is who i am.I could not think of ever destroying something so beautiful.Yes,I think my body is hot.I'm 5'9 and 210lbs and have a husky body,partly due to a lot of weightlifting throughout the years.And that's also why I get called sir or mister a lot.I buy mens clothes everytime.I don't have a problem using a woman's bathroom today because I have let my hair grow long,the ladies still turn their heads,but I don't feel the need to clear my throat anymore.But I never get a second glance if I use the men's restroom,which I still use in an emergency only.Never wore make-up,plus it won't look right on my face..it just won't.In other words i'm comfortable in this old body of mine.I don't have a problem being called she,her,or woman...it is what i am.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Want to Participate in Updating “Our Bodies, Ourselves”?

Quoting myself b/c AtLast was so kind to rep me about it! Thank you!

[apretty]

do you think that your weight and identity are related, do you think that your body size and gender are connected? just wondering--you must go through/or have gone through body-size dysmorphia (as a result of your large weight loss) and some butches i have known also have a degree of body dysmorphia--and i was wondering if, at all do you think that your size (then or now) and gender are interconnected?

Originally Posted by Stoney

I see alot of this is about changing room restroom stuff but it all got me thinking ..so I hope Im not too far off subject.

for a really long time I honestly felt almost genderless, I mean I weighed over 400 lbs not many people felt comfortable around me
and I was either completely ignored or whispered about... always the same ( is that a man or a woman..??) I think they were wishing I'd choose a bathroom or changing room just to satisfy their curiosity.
Now that I have lost weight it is a lot different, men are either completely rude, and on the defense or they want me to meet their wife....it is kinda creepy.
I forget sometimes that I look different to people now, and I am no longer "invisible"
"visible" Sometimes feels like "vulnerable" and I dont really like that , so I have to sometimes cut back on the friendly smiles and pointless conversations with men who now readily recognize with a double take I am female.

So yeah ,
I have had some issues. I do Identify as female, always have but no body really seemed to notice that much till I lost all this weight.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by apretty

do you think that your weight and identity are related, do you think that your body size and gender are connected? just wondering--you must go through/or have gone through body-size dysmorphia (as a result of your large weight loss) and some butches i have known also have a degree of body dysmorphia--and i was wondering if, at all do you think that your size (then or now) and gender are interconnected?

Would you be willing to talk more on the concept of body-size dysmorphia? I am somewhat new attempting to understand the places in myself where my gender, my size, my weight losses and gains may intersect and what it means.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Would you be willing to talk more on the concept of body-size dysmorphia? I am somewhat new attempting to understand the places in myself where my gender, my size, my weight losses and gains may intersect and what it means.

Don't want to lose sight of these important questions/issues either that are related to previous posts.

[AtLast]

I just found this thread and find it extremely interesting and informative about all of us that are a part of this wonderfully diverse community. I have to go back to the beginning and read all the posts... just can't right now (and there is a lot to take in). Thanks, Bully for starting this discussion!

Something funny that has struck me though (just about bathroom/dressing room posts), is that I drive around town in a RV type van that has a bathroom fairly often. My tension over using a public restroom has been cut in half or more! Although, it really doesn't bother me as much as it used to, I will just use my bathroom in stead of dealing with all of the nonsense that we (butches- all of we butches) sometimes do.

[Stoney]

Originally Posted by apretty

do you think that your weight and identity are related, do you think that your body size and gender are connected? just wondering--you must go through/or have gone through body-size dysmorphia (as a result of your large weight loss) and some butches i have known also have a degree of body dysmorphia--and i was wondering if, at all do you think that your size (then or now) and gender are interconnected?

Oh Yes Absolutely apretty.

I think my size had a lot to do with how I identified ....
I used to wonder , in all honesty whether or not It was more of a conscious and deliberate choice to be a lesbian and not necessarily a physiological one. I have been very open with friends in here and on other threads about my past as a young woman and also about issues of sexual abuse.
from the time I as a little girl I had always devised way to protect myself, from going around picking fights, bullying people, putting on a front. I lifted weights, I got big, way too big "for a girl"( per others) in a muscular way.
I realize now this was a way of protecting myself from abusers. When I was 17 I spent 14 months in prison, which btw was actually a safer environment than I had come from. When I got out , I tried like hell to feminize myself but found out I didnt know how to live that way without feeling vunerable. But going around kicking peoples asses puts you in jail. so...

When I was 20 I married a kind and gentle man, and had 3 kids, we were married less than 4 years and divorced. Within months I was pregnant again, and in a relationship with an alcoholic who was abusive to me. I weighed around 190 or so which really wasnt overweight for me because of the weight lifting.
but.....it didnt help me fight back, this Man could easily kick my ass, humilitate me into not fighting back,make me feel small , helpless and weak, all my abuse was brought up often, like" if you werent such a whore, you wouldnt have had all these problems. I remember getting choked and hit in the face cause someone asked me to dance while he was in the bathroom at a bar. I used to have long hair, and I wore make up, I cut my hair and stopped trying to make myself more attractive to men, I gained over 100 lbs. It was around that time that I started remembering and dealing with my past, childhood sexual abuse.
when I got big enough to kick his ass and got tired of being called a dyke, I finally left that relationship, and sought to heal myself. I weighed around 300 had 4 kids and was a full time single mom.
It took a long time , but when the real me began to emerge I was bitter and angry with men in general, I looked deeply into feminism and Herstory, and for the first time faced my feelings about men.... and women.
When I was inside, I had secrets no one ever knew about my relationships with other girls. I honestly could not think of them as lesbian actions , I thought I was just really messed up, a sexual pervert, and never spoke a word about my attraction or what I had done with other girls. In fact for years I felt my life was messed up cause of that deep dark secret.......

When I left that relationship finally, I never again had anything to do with men. I began to facilitate groups for childhood sexual abuse and Disociative Identity Disorder. and help survivors through their pain, within a few years I came out, full blown ''butch'' lesbian.

I have never really thought in my case "Being Butch" is a gender, It is a description more or less about my mannerisms.

I actually gained the rest of my weight ( up to over 450) after a medical mistake long after I had come out gay.

I do think getting bigger was a way of protecting myself, making myself less attractive to men, so yes I feel it had to do with gender in that respect.

Now... I weigh 160. It feels linda like Im in a snow storm in a nylon jacket ( in the literal sense as well as metaphorically)

I am thankful I spent the many years I did on myself healing from the abuse, learning how to stand up for myself and others. I am solid and strong with who I am today, I work out now not to get big, but to become healthy . I still have the mind set of the 400lb womon and it doesnt just go away. I notice the attention of men now where I didnt before and I am trying to not be so mean to them, it doesnt take much for my mouth to overide my ass these days.
I actually might post a thing I wrote a while back on gender and weight ect... It's been A while since I read it but if it pertains I will.

It has been a challenge accepting my body at this size, it is scary sometimes, it is hard to believe people who say i am attractive, girls scare me now a little too, i am careful to not be so suspicious of flirts etc...its still hard for me to believe i am attractive to others physically but....



it feels sooooo great to finally be healthy after so many years of pain and illness.

peace,
Stoney

[Stoney]

I tried to post a picture but I didnt do it right or something... I put it in the galley Ill leave it up for a little bit. my before and afters

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Stoney

Oh Yes Absolutely apretty.

I think my size had a lot to do with how I identified ....
I used to wonder , in all honesty whether or not It was more of a conscious and deliberate choice to be a lesbian and not necessarily a physiological one. I have been very open with friends in here and on other threads about my past as a young woman and also about issues of sexual abuse.
from the time I as a little girl I had always devised way to protect myself, from going around picking fights, bullying people, putting on a front. I lifted weights, I got big, way too big "for a girl"( per others) in a muscular way.
I realize now this was a way of protecting myself from abusers. When I was 17 I spent 14 months in prison, which btw was actually a safer environment than I had come from. When I got out , I tried like hell to feminize myself but found out I didnt know how to live that way without feeling vunerable. But going around kicking peoples asses puts you in jail. so...

When I was 20 I married a kind and gentle man, and had 3 kids, we were married less than 4 years and divorced. Within months I was pregnant again, and in a relationship with an alcoholic who was abusive to me. I weighed around 190 or so which really wasnt overweight for me because of the weight lifting.
but.....it didnt help me fight back, this Man could easily kick my ass, humilitate me into not fighting back,make me feel small , helpless and weak, all my abuse was brought up often, like" if you werent such a whore, you wouldnt have had all these problems. I remember getting choked and hit in the face cause someone asked me to dance while he was in the bathroom at a bar. I used to have long hair, and I wore make up, I cut my hair and stopped trying to make myself more attractive to men, I gained over 100 lbs. It was around that time that I started remembering and dealing with my past, childhood sexual abuse.
when I got big enough to kick his ass and got tired of being called a dyke, I finally left that relationship, and sought to heal myself. I weighed around 300 had 4 kids and was a full time single mom.
It took a long time , but when the real me began to emerge I was bitter and angry with men in general, I looked deeply into feminism and Herstory, and for the first time faced my feelings about men.... and women.
When I was inside, I had secrets no one ever knew about my relationships with other girls. I honestly could not think of them as lesbian actions , I thought I was just really messed up, a sexual pervert, and never spoke a word about my attraction or what I had done with other girls. In fact for years I felt my life was messed up cause of that deep dark secret.......

When I left that relationship finally, I never again had anything to do with men. I began to facilitate groups for childhood sexual abuse and Disociative Identity Disorder. and help survivors through their pain, within a few years I came out, full blown ''butch'' lesbian.

I have never really thought in my case "Being Butch" is a gender, It is a description more or less about my mannerisms.

I actually gained the rest of my weight ( up to over 450) after a medical mistake long after I had come out gay.

I do think getting bigger was a way of protecting myself, making myself less attractive to men, so yes I feel it had to do with gender in that respect.

Now... I weigh 160. It feels linda like Im in a snow storm in a nylon jacket ( in the literal sense as well as metaphorically)

I am thankful I spent the many years I did on myself healing from the abuse, learning how to stand up for myself and others. I am solid and strong with who I am today, I work out now not to get big, but to become healthy . I still have the mind set of the 400lb womon and it doesnt just go away. I notice the attention of men now where I didnt before and I am trying to not be so mean to them, it doesnt take much for my mouth to overide my ass these days.
I actually might post a thing I wrote a while back on gender and weight ect... It's been A while since I read it but if it pertains I will.

It has been a challenge accepting my body at this size, it is scary sometimes, it is hard to believe people who say i am attractive, girls scare me now a little too, i am careful to not be so suspicious of flirts etc...its still hard for me to believe i am attractive to others physically but....



it feels sooooo great to finally be healthy after so many years of pain and illness.

peace,
Stoney

this was super amazingly brave, thank you.

i totally get the conscious and deliberate choice thing--i think it's valid to make that choice, i can *relate* to making the choice to be queer. i am absolutely skeptical of a hetero man's ability to know my *life*, being raised female in this society--and i *need* that understanding to fully love someone and allow them to love the authentic me. i want the most equality that i can achieve in a relationship and i don't believe a hetero man could (temporarily) shrug off his privilege and support but not patronize and love but not power-over me. (i could probably say this better after another cup of coffee)

either way, thank you for your response.

also, have you read, 'fat is a feminist issue' ? i mean i think it's important to consider what it is to be female-bodied and take up space--and *butch* space would seem to be even more threatening to the power-structure.

like i said, more coffee needed--but those are some preliminary thoughts.

[BullDog]

Thank you so much for your very open and honest post Stoney.

peace my friend,
Bully