Lesbian Butches - Coming home to ourselves....

Kobi · 08-10-2011, 12:51 PM

I should have some idea of where I want this post to go. But I dont. So, what may come will probably be as much a surprise to me as it will be to you.

I never thought to see what I was feeling as an indication of self estrangement. I mean I have always felt female and have always claimed woman. That wasnt my issue.

My issue was more about expressing what female and woman was or could be. I'm 55, life was a whole different ball of wax back then. So, I wasnt estranged per se as much as I just had another vision of reality.

In everyday life, the community I found was one that encouraged women to be whatever and whoever they were. Discussions about lesbian and feminist issues were a big deal. But, I rarely remember discussions about who is a lesbian or what is a lesbian or how lesbians are supposed to look, dress etc. or who fits in the club except in joking ways - i.e. I do not camp. My idea of camping is a fully stocked room at the Marriott. I endured many a ribbing about wtf kind of lesbian was I? Tho, I do remember a few hurricanes where I wished I had those skills and equipment. And, I remember the time my ultra femme but straight landlord showed up to rewire the lamp post in the driveway. She was dressed to kill in a skin tight dress, heels, perfect make up, perfect hair, perfect nails. I, of course, puffed out my chest and went to help i.e. "rescue the lady". It took all of 10 minutes for both of us to conclude I was the most unhandy person on the face of the earth and my butch badge was in serious in jeopardy.

I dont remember any partner of mine who made me feel I wasnt masculine enough or butch enough. I do remember a host of women making it clear I wasnt butch or masculine enough for what they were looking for. But that's different.

My contacts with men and things male was limited to those necessary evils i.e. family, work, friends husbands/boyfriends, neighbors etc. But, my world was women oriented, women filled, women everything. My health professionals were all women, my service people were all women, etc.

As can often happen when you are living your bliss, you get content, comfortable, complacent, and are totally unaware of what is going on around you.

My awareness of female, woman, feminist, butch thing in a whole new way developed from being on this website. Once I got past the shock of wtf are all these men doing here, I was confronted with a new reality that made my internal world go wonky.

Here, as a female, a woman, and a lesbian, I felt threatened and unsafe. As enlightened as one can be, there is always the memory of the patriarchy lingering inside. I was thinking things like it is just a matter of time before these guys take over and macho shitheadness (my all encompassing term for things male) will become the norm. And wth are these women thinking?

It's kind of funny now but it wasnt making me laugh back then. Back then, I was stuck on we have all these zones but no lesbian zone. Hm. I, as a woman and a butch have been lumped in with guys. Hm. I, as a women and a butch, suddenly did not feel I was enough as I was. There seemed to be a masculinity scale thing going on. Hm. I, as a single woman and butch, am competing with men. How the heck does a lesbian compete with men and why would she? Hm. How do I talk to these guys - shouldnt be that complicated but trust me, it was. Hm. Why am I having so much trouble connecting, in the way I am used to connecting, with the women here? Hm. I am surrounded (it seemed) by men who are making me very aware of my femaleness and womanness in a way that is making me uncomfortable. Hm.

It was an internal thing set off by external influences tapping into old stereotypes and histories and setting up new realities and challenges. It took a while to get passed the "I'm too old for this shit" mentality.

But, I learned a lot along the way and am still learning. The men here have been nothing but sweet, nice, pleasant, respectful, supportive and a lot of other nifty things. Even when they do gender based stuff, I know it is not out of malaciousness. And there are plenty of women here ready to deal with it anyway.

For me, being here forced me to revisit myself in a whole new way. It wasnt comfortable or a whole lot of fun, but it has been interesting.

The most important part of it was reconnecting with myself in ways that I hadnt done in decades. Reaffirming my femaleness and womanness has taken on a whole new meaning for me. Being visible as a woman and a lesbian has become very important again. Being involved in the community in a different way has become more important to me.

In some ways it is very simple. In others it is more complex but I dont have the words to explain it. Some of it, I am still trying to figure out. Whatever it is, it feels good. To see others feeling similarly feels validating and reassuring.

Funny thing about being a person. We change, we adapt, we try things on, we find what works, we deal with an endless supply of challenges, we grow, we evolve. And in the end, it is a really all about a journey back to ourselves.

OS Butch · 08-10-2011, 01:30 PM

Funny that you would start this thread today, for me anyways. I am 54 and I too have always had my woman,female, lesbian self.
Today I found a picture of me in the early 80's. It reminded me that way back then I was searching for the right skin I felt comfy. That picture sure reminded me of the struggles to find out where I fit in.... I look at that picture and boy, was I never gonna fit in as a Femme!
It wasn't long after that that I found comfort in having my masculine side, my Butch came out and I finally was comfortable. Back then, I use to really get upset when I would get a sir, I would say "yanno, I do have boobs" or something blatant like that. Today I just smile and correct them, or not, they figure it out and get just as red.
From 1994 to 2002, when my daughter was in elementary school, I did for my daughter what some consider unthinkable, I again pulled out the dresses for school functions and only school functions. Once she hit intermediate school, it was cool to have a lesbian mom, a butch one at that!
She, my daughter, always accepted me as Butch. It was the outside world that didn't. Now, I don't really care, I am a Lesbian Butch Woman.
OSB...aka Jo or Joan or JJ

Apocalipstic · 08-10-2011, 02:51 PM

I know this is for Lesbian Butches, but I just have to say...YEAYYY!

OS Butch · 08-10-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I know this is for Lesbian Butches, but I just have to say...YEAYYY!

I am sure I didn't see a sign that only Lesbian Butches could come in.

bright_arrow · 08-10-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I know this is for Lesbian Butches, but I just have to say...YEAYYY!

Sing is sistah!

Viva la butches ~ woot!

LipstickLola · 08-10-2011, 10:23 PM

I love all things butch, cuz my gf is

Jess · 08-10-2011, 10:25 PM

Thanks Kobi for this thread. I want to engage in this conversation, however tonight I am just too tired.
Thanks also to everyone participating! I'll be back tomorrow or at some point soon, when I have more energy to offer. Just wanted to send out some good vibes to let ya know this has been seen and appreciated.

RavynTuqiri · 08-10-2011, 10:43 PM

Hmmmm....interesting and much appreciated thread!

I agree with Kobi's post...to each their own journey....I think the path's we walk on our individual roads to self discovery sometimes lead us right back to where we started...and that's ok too. Self discovery at times is more about self acceptance.

I came out as lesbian when I was 27....being femme or girlie or anything close was never in the question....I think I was 16 when I wore my last dress.

More recently I have been exploring my more masculine side...and bottom line is through that self discovery was that while I like being this tomboish mixture of female and male...I do not want to be male....

I think sort of like a sliding scale....we slip back and forth until we find a place on the spectrum of sex identity that suits our feelings in that moment....moments change and so does the scale...

I wonder if at times the need to identify as inherently male or female is not just ingrained programming that in society to fit in you have to be one or the other....instead of embracing who we want to be...even if that means being gender neutral or embracing of both our masculine and feminine spirits.

intrigue_in916 · 11-04-2011, 01:42 PM

Kobi,thank you for this thread. Love the positivity, and insecurity. We all learn for one another. Im loving my journey.

Bard · 08-10-2011, 03:15 PM

well I am proud to be Lesbain and Butch it has at time been aquward for me finding the ballance and understanding myself soneone once put it to me like this I am a study in contrasts yup I am a female tyvm and I love women and I have a lot of masculine traits to long I thougth I had to be one or the other but finally I get it.. I once looked at pictures with my dad and he was like ok what one is the real you and you know he was right I felt lke the bull in the china shop all girlafied much more at home in my own skin in my jeans boots and hats ahh well one of the things I love about the planet is all the diffrences and all we learn form eachother
I hope to give to my daughter the ablity to feel good in her own skin and I always tell her I love you just as you are
off my little soapbox now just thanks to all the butches femms and the famliy here y'all helped me in the journey called living

08-10-2011, 01:30 PM	#2
OS Butch Member How Do You Identify?: Butch-BLW Preferred Pronoun?: Default-She Relationship Status: Closed Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 636 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 488 Thanked 1,378 Times in 461 Posts Rep Power: 12988704	Funny that you would start this thread today, for me anyways. I am 54 and I too have always had my woman,female, lesbian self. Today I found a picture of me in the early 80's. It reminded me that way back then I was searching for the right skin I felt comfy. That picture sure reminded me of the struggles to find out where I fit in.... I look at that picture and boy, was I never gonna fit in as a Femme! It wasn't long after that that I found comfort in having my masculine side, my Butch came out and I finally was comfortable. Back then, I use to really get upset when I would get a sir, I would say "yanno, I do have boobs" or something blatant like that. Today I just smile and correct them, or not, they figure it out and get just as red. From 1994 to 2002, when my daughter was in elementary school, I did for my daughter what some consider unthinkable, I again pulled out the dresses for school functions and only school functions. Once she hit intermediate school, it was cool to have a lesbian mom, a butch one at that! She, my daughter, always accepted me as Butch. It was the outside world that didn't. Now, I don't really care, I am a Lesbian Butch Woman. OSB...aka Jo or Joan or JJ __________________ You know that place between sleep and awake, the place where you can still remember dreaming? That's where I'll always love you. ~Tinkerbell~

08-10-2011, 02:51 PM	#3
Apocalipstic Pink Confection How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status: Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nashville Posts: 4,266 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,195 Thanked 11,362 Times in 2,838 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I know this is for Lesbian Butches, but I just have to say...YEAYYY! __________________

11-04-2011, 01:42 PM	#9
intrigue_in916 Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Feminine Lesbian Woman Preferred Pronoun?: just dont refer to me as a 'YOU PEOPLE' or say'HEY YOU' to me Relationship Status: single Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Folsom CA. Posts: 76 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 110 Thanked 133 Times in 55 Posts Rep Power: 289028	all things woman! Kobi,thank you for this thread. Love the positivity, and insecurity. We all learn for one another. Im loving my journey. __________________ Intriguinglyours

08-10-2011, 03:15 PM	#10
Bard Family Man How Do You Identify?: TG Male Preferred Pronoun?: Masculine ones Relationship Status: She just gets me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ..... Posts: 2,828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,997 Thanked 12,786 Times in 2,431 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	well I am proud to be Lesbain and Butch it has at time been aquward for me finding the ballance and understanding myself soneone once put it to me like this I am a study in contrasts yup I am a female tyvm and I love women and I have a lot of masculine traits to long I thougth I had to be one or the other but finally I get it.. I once looked at pictures with my dad and he was like ok what one is the real you and you know he was right I felt lke the bull in the china shop all girlafied much more at home in my own skin in my jeans boots and hats ahh well one of the things I love about the planet is all the diffrences and all we learn form eachother I hope to give to my daughter the ablity to feel good in her own skin and I always tell her I love you just as you are off my little soapbox now just thanks to all the butches femms and the famliy here y'all helped me in the journey called living __________________ This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! Give yourself over to absolute pleasure. Swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh - erotic nightmares beyond any measure, and sensual daydreams to treasure forever. Can't you just see it? Don't dream it, be it.

08-10-2011, 12:51 PM	#1
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,617 Times in 7,640 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	I should have some idea of where I want this post to go. But I dont. So, what may come will probably be as much a surprise to me as it will be to you. I never thought to see what I was feeling as an indication of self estrangement. I mean I have always felt female and have always claimed woman. That wasnt my issue. My issue was more about expressing what female and woman was or could be. I'm 55, life was a whole different ball of wax back then. So, I wasnt estranged per se as much as I just had another vision of reality. In everyday life, the community I found was one that encouraged women to be whatever and whoever they were. Discussions about lesbian and feminist issues were a big deal. But, I rarely remember discussions about who is a lesbian or what is a lesbian or how lesbians are supposed to look, dress etc. or who fits in the club except in joking ways - i.e. I do not camp. My idea of camping is a fully stocked room at the Marriott. I endured many a ribbing about wtf kind of lesbian was I? Tho, I do remember a few hurricanes where I wished I had those skills and equipment. And, I remember the time my ultra femme but straight landlord showed up to rewire the lamp post in the driveway. She was dressed to kill in a skin tight dress, heels, perfect make up, perfect hair, perfect nails. I, of course, puffed out my chest and went to help i.e. "rescue the lady". It took all of 10 minutes for both of us to conclude I was the most unhandy person on the face of the earth and my butch badge was in serious in jeopardy. I dont remember any partner of mine who made me feel I wasnt masculine enough or butch enough. I do remember a host of women making it clear I wasnt butch or masculine enough for what they were looking for. But that's different. My contacts with men and things male was limited to those necessary evils i.e. family, work, friends husbands/boyfriends, neighbors etc. But, my world was women oriented, women filled, women everything. My health professionals were all women, my service people were all women, etc. As can often happen when you are living your bliss, you get content, comfortable, complacent, and are totally unaware of what is going on around you. My awareness of female, woman, feminist, butch thing in a whole new way developed from being on this website. Once I got past the shock of wtf are all these men doing here, I was confronted with a new reality that made my internal world go wonky. Here, as a female, a woman, and a lesbian, I felt threatened and unsafe. As enlightened as one can be, there is always the memory of the patriarchy lingering inside. I was thinking things like it is just a matter of time before these guys take over and macho shitheadness (my all encompassing term for things male) will become the norm. And wth are these women thinking? It's kind of funny now but it wasnt making me laugh back then. Back then, I was stuck on we have all these zones but no lesbian zone. Hm. I, as a woman and a butch have been lumped in with guys. Hm. I, as a women and a butch, suddenly did not feel I was enough as I was. There seemed to be a masculinity scale thing going on. Hm. I, as a single woman and butch, am competing with men. How the heck does a lesbian compete with men and why would she? Hm. How do I talk to these guys - shouldnt be that complicated but trust me, it was. Hm. Why am I having so much trouble connecting, in the way I am used to connecting, with the women here? Hm. I am surrounded (it seemed) by men who are making me very aware of my femaleness and womanness in a way that is making me uncomfortable. Hm. It was an internal thing set off by external influences tapping into old stereotypes and histories and setting up new realities and challenges. It took a while to get passed the "I'm too old for this shit" mentality. But, I learned a lot along the way and am still learning. The men here have been nothing but sweet, nice, pleasant, respectful, supportive and a lot of other nifty things. Even when they do gender based stuff, I know it is not out of malaciousness. And there are plenty of women here ready to deal with it anyway. For me, being here forced me to revisit myself in a whole new way. It wasnt comfortable or a whole lot of fun, but it has been interesting. The most important part of it was reconnecting with myself in ways that I hadnt done in decades. Reaffirming my femaleness and womanness has taken on a whole new meaning for me. Being visible as a woman and a lesbian has become very important again. Being involved in the community in a different way has become more important to me. In some ways it is very simple. In others it is more complex but I dont have the words to explain it. Some of it, I am still trying to figure out. Whatever it is, it feels good. To see others feeling similarly feels validating and reassuring. Funny thing about being a person. We change, we adapt, we try things on, we find what works, we deal with an endless supply of challenges, we grow, we evolve. And in the end, it is a really all about a journey back to ourselves.

08-10-2011, 10:23 PM	#6
LipstickLola Member How Do You Identify?: Happy Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: planet Earth Posts: 682 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,679 Thanked 1,597 Times in 433 Posts Rep Power: 5678218	I love all things butch, cuz my gf is

08-10-2011, 10:25 PM	#7
Jess Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?: other Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Patrick Springs, VA Posts: 2,812 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,247 Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts Rep Power: 0	Thanks Kobi for this thread. I want to engage in this conversation, however tonight I am just too tired. Thanks also to everyone participating! I'll be back tomorrow or at some point soon, when I have more energy to offer. Just wanted to send out some good vibes to let ya know this has been seen and appreciated.

08-10-2011, 10:43 PM	#8
RavynTuqiri Member How Do You Identify?: Butch/Boi Preferred Pronoun?: Anything but it... Relationship Status: Hide n go Seek Join Date: May 2010 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 123 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 338 Thanked 223 Times in 74 Posts Rep Power: 1464163	Hmmmm....interesting and much appreciated thread! I agree with Kobi's post...to each their own journey....I think the path's we walk on our individual roads to self discovery sometimes lead us right back to where we started...and that's ok too. Self discovery at times is more about self acceptance. I came out as lesbian when I was 27....being femme or girlie or anything close was never in the question....I think I was 16 when I wore my last dress. More recently I have been exploring my more masculine side...and bottom line is through that self discovery was that while I like being this tomboish mixture of female and male...I do not want to be male.... I think sort of like a sliding scale....we slip back and forth until we find a place on the spectrum of sex identity that suits our feelings in that moment....moments change and so does the scale... I wonder if at times the need to identify as inherently male or female is not just ingrained programming that in society to fit in you have to be one or the other....instead of embracing who we want to be...even if that means being gender neutral or embracing of both our masculine and feminine spirits.