2012 - What does it mean to you?

[SuperFemme]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLCQKM6O01A"]YouTube- It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)- Historical Music Video[/ame]

[Strappie]

Well if I make it that long, then 2012 will be a blast!!

[Strappie]

Oh and I'll get a shinny new check card in the mail..

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Strappie

Oh and I'll get a shinny new check card in the mail..

and if everything blows up.. your debts will be forgotten!!!

[dreadgeek]

So I have a question for those who believe that 'something' will happen in 2012. Now, it's obvious that I don't think that anything will happen. 2012 will be a year like 2011. There will probably be a hurricane, there'll probably be an earthquake, some tornados will touch down somewhere in the midwest, there will be shootings and bombings. But since we can expect this to occur, I assume that these regular, sadly commonplace events aren't the kinds of things that the Mayans were talking about in their prophecies. So my question is this: what do you think that these prophecies actually predict?

One or two people have said that they think it will be a time of emotional transition. If you believe that my question for you is this: why on Earth would the Mayans make THAT prophecy? Let me try to put my confusion in context. Let's say you believe in fortune telling so you go to a fortune teller. She says to you, "in ten years you will be experiencing deep and profound thoughts". You pay whatever it costs for a fortune teller, walk out of her little storefront, step off the curb and are immediately struck by a bus, killing you instantly. Now, if this woman were a fortune teller and could really see the future, don't you think that the information that you were going to be struck by a bus would be a tad bit *more* important than that you were going to be experiencing deep thoughts a decade from now? (Which, of course, you aren't going to be around to be doing now.) The reason I ask is that if, in fact, the 2012 prophecy refers to some great emotional change that will take place planet-wide isn't that just a little prosaic? What's more, why is it that they could predict *that* event but couldn't predict the fall of their own civilization--an event much closer to home and far more relevant for them?

I understand the hesitancy to commit to a position but if you *actually* believe something is going to happen in 2012, what? Will the Earth be struck by an asteroid? Where? (To give you a sense of context--and the standard I'm thinking of--you'll recall yesterday that I mentioned the Apohpis meteor potentially hitting the Earth in 2035. Now, I cannot give you the precise grid coordinate but astronomers do know that IF Apophis passes through the 'keyhole' in 2029, it will hit the Earth in 2035 somewhere in the Pacific between California and Hawaii. That means that a quarter century BEFORE the hypothetical event, a prediction has been made that is actually verifiable.) I've already explained that there's nothing special about passing through the galactic plane (and we're not going to do that anytime soon at any rate) and that the SMBH at the center of the galaxy doesn't have any real effect on us. We can also rule out the Earth flipping upside down (again for reasons that, hopefully, I've explained adequately enough for our purposes here). So what is it that is supposed to happen?

While I don't believe this prophecy to be at all true, I'm asking questions of those who do believe it is true taking your belief very seriously. I presume that you are saying what you believe and believe what you are saying. I'm just curious as to how those who believe this process this information.

Thanks.

Cheers
Aj

[NJFemmie]

So my question is this: what do you think that these prophecies actually predict? One or two people have said that they think it will be a time of emotional transition. If you believe that my question for you is this: why on Earth would the Mayans make THAT prophecy?

Well, I can speak for no one but myself, but ...

The Mayans did not make that prophecy - the astrological alignment on that date does. I know a lot of people like to look at astrology as a new age concept - but astrology is a science. The art of astrology is based in it's interpretation. It's a science with a metaphysical twist. One thing NO ONE can deny, is that the planets move in a constant around the universe. The energies associated with each planet has their own unique effect depending on how they position to each other - and are intensified during astrological alignments.

Edited to add: It is speculated that the Mayans stopped their calendar on that date because they did believe that it begins another cycle of evolution. Not necessarily of the "end of the world kind", but a more spiritual evolution, if you will.

And ... there is also speculation that they "just stopped" and didn't feel a need to go further.

Let me try to put my confusion in context. Let's say you believe in fortune telling so you go to a fortune teller. She says to you, "in ten years you will be experiencing deep and profound thoughts". You pay whatever it costs for a fortune teller, walk out of her little storefront, step off the curb and are immediately struck by a bus, killing you instantly. Now, if this woman were a fortune teller and could really see the future, don't you think that the information that you were going to be struck by a bus would be a tad bit *more* important than that you were going to be experiencing deep thoughts a decade from now? (Which, of course, you aren't going to be around to be doing now.) The reason I ask is that if, in fact, the 2012 prophecy refers to some great emotional change that will take place planet-wide isn't that just a little prosaic? What's more, why is it that they could predict *that* event but couldn't predict the fall of their own civilization--an event much closer to home and far more relevant for them?

First of all, fortune telling IS NOT a science. It doesn't fall into the category of astrology. Astrological influences and psychic ability are certainly not one and the same.

For lack of a better definition:

An astrological age is a time period in astrology which is believed by some to parallel major changes in the Earth's inhabitants' development, particularly relating to culture, society and politics. There are twelve astrological ages corresponding to the twelve zodiacal signs in astrology. At the completion of one cycle of twelve astrological ages, the cycle repeats itself. Astrological ages occur because of a phenomenon known as the precession of the equinoxes. One complete period of this precession is called a Great Year or Platonic Yearof about 25,860 years.

Honestly, I am not sure what will happen in 2012. To be truthful, I didn't go into "study mode" over this. But, based on the alignment itself, it does indicate (to an astrologer), that there are changes coming. (In fact, the wheels for those changes have already been placed in motion.

[dreadgeek]

Since black holes were invoked in this thread, I thought it might be interesting to delve into these a tiny bit more because these objects are SO cool!

So to understand black holes one must understand that in the interior of all stars there is a battle raging. The mass of the star, which is what creates gravity, wants to cause the star to collapse on itself (remember that gravity is ALWAYS attractive) but the fusion process (caused by that same gravitation) generates heat that prevents the star from collapsing. For 'main sequence' stars of .4 to 1.4 solar masses (using our sun as the baseline) near the end of their lifetime, as the fuel is exhausted, heat briefly triumphs over gravity and the star expands to a red giant. This will be the end-game cycle for the Sun. It will eventually expand out to 1 AU (Earth's orbit), completely obliterating our planet and then collapse into a cooler, white dwarf star about the size of the Earth.

Larger stars > 1.4 solar masses but < 4 solar masses will expand out to red supergiants and then collapse into neutron stars.

Truly massive stars > 4 solar masses go through one of the most interesting and violent transitions in the Universe. In these stars gravity fully triumphs over heat and the core of the star becomes iron. This increases the mass of the star while not generating more heat. At some point the star collapses in a supernovae and then collapses further into itself creating a black hole. When this happens very high energy particles may be ejected in the x-ray part of the spectrum which is one way we can detect black holes.

So why are black holes 'black'? They are black because the gravitational force is so extreme that not even light can escape it. If the black hole is part of a binary system it will tend to capture its partner and begin sucking stellar mass from it, feeding itself. This is another way we can detect black holes. As mass approaches the event horizon (boundary) of a black hole, it will be accelerated to a substantial fraction of the speed of light (C) which can cause atoms to be ripped apart with photons being ejected in the x-ray band.

We cannot detect black holes directly (because no signal can escape or be reflected from it) but we can infer them by the presence of mass being accelerated to a substantial fraction of C because of the gravitational tidal forces.

One more interesting bit about black holes. As you pass the event horizon the tidal forces grow more extreme. Imagine that you pass through a black hole feet first. Since your feet will be closer to the center of mass than your head, your feet will start to accelerate faster than your head causing your body to be stretched out. As you fall deeper, your molecules will be strung out in a process that Neil Degrasse-Tyson calls "spaghettification" and then your very atoms will be ripped apart. What's really interesting about this is that, counter-intuitively, if you were to fall into a supermassive black hole this *wouldn't* happen because the tidal forces are less intense but if you were to fall into a 'normal' black hole (a stellar-mass black hole) then you would undergo that process. So, ironically, you might actually *survive* falling into a supermassive black hole long enough to appreciate what was beyond the event horizon although you would still NEVER be able to get a signal out so you wouldn't be able to report what you found.

Cheers
Aj

[NJFemmie]

What it means astrologically is ....

- A quincunx (150 degree aspect) between Jupiter and Pluto.
- A quincunx between Jupiter and Saturn.
- A central opposition (180 degree aspect) made between Jupiter and the Mercury/Venus conjunction.

The two quincunxes are almost exact, and have an orb of less than 1/2 of a degree. The quincunx between Jupiter and Pluto is exact at December 21 2012.

Pluto (The Energy of Evolution) is the planet of radical transformation, death and rebirth. (Pluto causes the disintegration of psychological blocks obstructing our evolutionary growth.)

Saturn (the Great Cosmic Teacher) is the planet of the earthly realm and of learning experiences, especially those of a more painful nature.

Jupiter (Ruler of all things philosophical) is also the planet of expansion (expanding the mind (higher mind) to superconscious realms and philosophy/expanding our physical horizons through long journeys). This is the focus of this alignment, the planet which receives the strong energy of the other planets involved. It also expands the energy of the other planets involved (especially Saturn and Pluto). This indicates transformational processes which can be emotionally painful.

Jupiter has a central place in this because it is the focal point of the energy. This indicates changes in our religious systems, beliefs, philosophical systems. These fall under Jupiter.

Also notable:

Jupiter squares (90 degree aspect) Neptune.
Neptune (The Ruler of all things "subtle") squares Venus.
Venus is in opposition to Jupiter (making this the central opposition).

Therefore Neptune, the planet of spirituality, ascension, confusion and floods is a crucial planet within this alignment. It rules all the processes of enlightenment.

What is interesting is that on that date, there will be an unusual astrological alignment combined with a rare galactic event.

Do I still think the world is coming to an end? No. But I think there are going to be some worldwide changes - and as previously mentioned - both individual and generational. Alignments like these have ushered in brand new eras, collectively changing the way humanity thinks, feels and interacts with one another.

I know I am making popcorn that day.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Jupiter (Ruler of all things philosophical) is also the planet of expansion (expanding the mind (higher mind) to superconscious realms and philosophy/expanding our physical horizons through long journeys). This is the focus of this alignment, the planet which receives the strong energy of the other planets involved. It also expands the energy of the other planets involved (especially Saturn and Pluto). This indicates transformational processes which can be emotionally painful.

Please pardon my ignorance. How would we know this happened? What would a year where there wasn't a transformational process look like as opposed to the kind of event you're talking about? (Again, please pardon my ignorance but I'm presuming that you are talking about observable events so I'm curious as to what we should expect to observe.)

Do I still think the world is coming to an end? No. But I think there are going to be some worldwide changes - and as previously mentioned - both individual and generational. Alignments like these have ushered in brand new eras, collectively changing the way humanity thinks, feels and interacts with one another.

I know I am making popcorn that day.

Can you give me an example of this? Admittedly, astrology is FAR outside of my competency and I have some questions (which I'll spare you) about the mechanics of astrology (in other words how it's supposed to work). I mean, was the start of the European Enlightenment one of these periods? Were the planets aligned the same way when Rousseau, Burke, Smith, Condorcet, Paine and Hume were writing?

Cheers
Aj

[NJFemmie]

Please pardon my ignorance. How would we know this happened? What would a year where there wasn't a transformational process look like as opposed to the kind of event you're talking about? (Again, please pardon my ignorance but I'm presuming that you are talking about observable events so I'm curious as to what we should expect to observe.)

We wouldn't know this happened, because it hasn't yet. This in itself is a rare alignment and it is SPECULATED, based on the interpretations of the planets and their positions, that this may take place. Have others taken place? Yes, but the astrological alignments for other eras/changes are not exactly the same.

In astrology, the distant planets Uranus, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto have more of a generational effect. In other words, humanity as a whole. The inner planets have more of an individualized effect (like.. what makes a taurus a taurus, etc..)

Alignments are complex. As an example, in the early 1930's - a T-Square alignment in certain planets/signs (I think it was Saturn, Uranus and Pluto) was symbolic of an economic breakdown in Western economies (the Depression), which in fact, affected all countries. Also during this T-square, the Nazi regime flourished, and well, we all know what impact that made on societies all across the world.

The 1960's was in itself an era ushered in by Saturn opposing Uranus and Pluto.

Each "era" has their own unique signature of planetary alignments and influences that have made them what they were/are. So, it's impossible to say what will EXACTLY happen - only speculate based on gathered information that has been accumulated over the centuries.

Can you give me an example of this? Admittedly, astrology is FAR outside of my competency and I have some questions (which I'll spare you) about the mechanics of astrology (in other words how it's supposed to work). I mean, was the start of the European Enlightenment one of these periods? Were the planets aligned the same way when Rousseau, Burke, Smith, Condorcet, Paine and Hume were writing?

Astrology may be outside your realm as much as quantum physics would be outside of mine. Honestly? I have NO idea (unless I sit and extensively research this) what alignments were in place during this particular time period and what plausible astrological effects to provide.