2012 - What does it mean to you?

[NJFemmie]

My only suggestion is to investigate astrology. I could go on and on about it, but honestly? I really have no desire to, lol. It wouldn't be fair to turn this thread into science vs. metaphysics - since my original intent was to simply answer a question about what I thought about 2012.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

My only suggestion is to investigate astrology. I could go on and on about it, but honestly? I really have no desire to, lol. It wouldn't be fair to turn this thread into science vs. metaphysics - since my original intent was to simply answer a question about what I thought about 2012.

Well, so that the thread doesn't die I'll bow out of it. Obviously, it's more entertaining to talk about, on the one hand, vague, non-specific events than it is to actually delve into the grounding issues of what might happen and why. I thought that good information about the science would crowd out bad information but that only works if people want good information which, clearly, they don't.

So enjoy the 23 month "the Mayans said the world will end!" party. On 22 Dec 2012, I'll be giggling my butt off and wondering how many people will have the courage to admit that 2012 was just another year.

Cheers
Aj

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Well, so that the thread doesn't die I'll bow out of it. Obviously, it's more entertaining to talk about, on the one hand, vague, non-specific events than it is to actually delve into the grounding issues of what might happen and why. I thought that good information about the science would crowd out bad information but that only works if people want good information which, clearly, they don't.

So enjoy the 23 month "the Mayans said the world will end!" party. On 22 Dec 2012, I'll be giggling my butt off and wondering how many people will have the courage to admit that 2012 was just another year.

Cheers
Aj

Everyone isn't going to care about the details. Details can be quite boorish. The web is vast and there's tons of information on it for those who want it though.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Everyone isn't going to care about the details. Details can be quite boorish. The web is vast and there's tons of information on it for those who want it though.

Details can be quite unmannered, rude and insensitive?

Maybe you mean boring?

As in: Detailed discussion on a thread topic can be boring? (to you)



It's hard to imagine how the details of something that one believes controls or effects all aspects of life in a mystical sense would be boring to that person, especially in a thread about how those beliefs will spur an impending global transformation...

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Details can be quite unmannered, rude and insensitive?

Maybe you mean boring?

As in: Detailed discussion on a thread topic can be boring? (to you)

I choose to not sit here and write about astrology and the science behind it and bore myself (and others) to death. Yes, I meant boring.

And yes, I am bored now.

[Legendryder]

Well, if my roommate had any money, the idiot would be building a fall-out bunker, buying guns, and stocking up on food. It is funny. He gets his information off the internet, and when I tell him about a site that debunks most of his stupid crap, he says "You can't trust what you read on the internet!" WTF???

Hell, to me 2012 is the year I will be getting my BS finished. Go me.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Legendryder

Well, if my roommate had any money, the idiot would be building a fall-out bunker, buying guns, and stocking up on food. It is funny. He gets his information off the internet, and when I tell him about a site that debunks most of his stupid crap, he says "You can't trust what you read on the internet!" WTF???

Hell, to me 2012 is the year I will be getting my BS finished. Go me.

Well, congrats on your BS (assuming that the Mayans are right, you'll have about six months to enjoy it LOL).

My wife and I sometimes talk about starting some kind of New Age consulting business. You see, she's got the whole "Celtic Earth-Mother" thing going on (red hair, curvy, I call her my own personal Flaming June) and I've got the whole dreadlocked black woman thing down and I can fake a passable Caribbean accent. With that schtick we could make money beyond our dreams of avarice!

I have a couple of people in my life who do the same thing as your roommate. On the one hand they'll say "I saw this on the Internet...." and then riff on some completely ludicrous idea and then, when they are pointed to a site where their sacred cow is well and truly debunked they'll respond "well, you can't believe everything you see on the Internet!" It boggles the mind.

Cheers
Aj

[Cyclopea]

Can anyone tell me who ascribed astrological characteristics to the planet Pluto after it was discovered in 1930?

I've looked on the internet and can not locate that info.

[NJFemmie]

Modern planets

Since the invention of the telescope, Western astrology has incorporated Uranus, Neptune, Ceres, Pluto and other bodies into its methodology. Indian and Chinese astrologies have tended to retain the ancient seven-planet system. Meanings have had to be assigned to them by modern astrologers, usually according to the major events which occurred in the world at the time of their discovery. As these astrologers are usually Western, the social and historical events they describe have an inevitable Western emphasis. Astrologers consider the 'extra-Saturnian' planets to be 'impersonal' or generational planets, meaning their effects are felt more across whole generations of society. Their effects in individuals depend upon how strongly they feature in that individual's birth-chart. There is also a great discussion going about what Ceres should rule in astrology. Some western astrologers hope that within a few years, astrological rulerships will be changed in order to include Ceres. The following are their characteristics as accepted by most astrologers.

To most modern Western astrologers, Pluto is the ruling planet of Scorpio. In Roman mythology Pluto is the god of the underworld and of wealth, hence the coin-and-chalice glyph. Pluto and its moon Charon form a unique pairing in the solar system because Charon is so massive relative to Pluto. This means that they revolve in a 'dumbbell' formation around a common point in space lying between them, permanently locked in a 'power struggle' for dominance.[13] This is symbolic of the role Pluto has come to represent astrologically. Pluto takes 248 years to orbit the sun, spending on average approximately 21 years (20.6) in each sign of the zodiac. However, Pluto's orbit is so eccentric that this can vary dramatically, from 25 years in Cancer (1913 - 1938) to a mere 12 years in Scorpio (1983 - 1995), when its orbit was actually closer to the sun than Neptune's.

Astrologically Pluto is called "the great renewer", and is considered to represent the part of a person that destroys in order to renew, through bringing buried, but intense, needs and drives to the surface and expressing them, even at the expense of the existing order. A commonly used keyword for Pluto is "transformation". It is associated with power and personal mastery and the need to co-operate and share with another, if each is not to be destroyed. Pluto governs big business and wealth, mining, surgery and detective work, and any enterprise which involves digging under the surface to bring the truth to light. Pluto is also associated with the day Tuesday along with Mars.

Pluto is also associated with extreme power and corruption; the discovery of Pluto in 1930 coincided with the rise of fascism and Stalinism in Europe, leading to the Second World War. It also coincided with the Great Depression and the major proliferation of organized crime in the United States.

Its entry into Cancer in 1913, the sign in which it was later discovered, coincided with the First World War. It is also associated with nuclear armament, which had its genesis in the research of the 1930s and 40s. Later on, it gave rise to the polarized nuclear stand off of the Cold War, with the mass consumer societies of the United States and other democracies facing the totalitarian state of the USSR. The discovery of Pluto also occurred just after the birth of modern psycho-analysis, when Freud and Jung began to explore the depths of the unconscious. In real life events and culture, Pluto has been a major astrological aspect.

In art, movements like Cubism and Surrealism began to deconstruct the 'normal' view of the world and reassemble it in new and sometimes disturbing ways. In medicine Pluto seems to be associated with regenerative forces in the body involving cell formation and the reproductive system. Pluto is considered by modern astrologers to be co-ruler of the 8th house with Mars. Many traditional astrologers do not use Pluto as a ruling planet, but do use the planet for interpretation and predictive work, obliquely making reference to projections of influences from higher to lower dimensional spaces.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Can anyone tell me who ascribed astrological characteristics to the planet Pluto after it was discovered in 1930?

I've looked on the internet and can not locate that info.

OK I found it, it was Jeff Green who in 1985 dreamt of what astrologers now believe about Pluto, as explained to him in the dream by Yogananda.

From Eric Francis:

"He started reading charts, came to Seattle, and put up his "Free Charts" sign, which was popular. He did a lot of readings on the radio. One night he had a dream in Sanskrit, in which Yogananda gave him some really intense info about Pluto. He started writing. He lit candles on his desk, illuminating the first page, and called his then-girlfriend, so she could come and see the first page; that is how it all began. It was an extremely challenging task to complete the book, but he did it. Yogananda stuck around. A lot happened. It's all history. It is fair to say that no book of the last half century has had as much impact as Jeff's. (Pluto: The Evolutionary Journey of the Soul)"

So there it is.

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

My only suggestion is to investigate astrology. I could go on and on about it, but honestly? I really have no desire to, lol. It wouldn't be fair to turn this thread into science vs. metaphysics - since my original intent was to simply answer a question about what I thought about 2012.

Off topic but I tend to wander off alot...LOL
Is this pic with the cat an image of mouse in 'light' form intentional? or am I having a '60s flashback'?

[Toughy]

2012......I will be 60 yrs old (June 24) and that's a number I cannot even understand.......laughin..........

It reminds me of a bumper sticker found all over NM during the Y2K hype:

Y2K is everyday in NM

Meaning: if all the hype had come true, nothing in NM would have changed........laughin....

I must admit I did go out to Point Reyes with a bunch of friends and 'harmonically converged' when we were supposed to do that to save the planet..........it was a great time hanging at the beach and doing a bit of meditation to the sound of the waves and the light of the moon.

It's the Solstice and I will be having a Solstice Celebration just like I do every year. It's a celebration of the return of the light.

[WILDCAT]

Clearly, this is a deep topic for some and then, NOT SO - for others.

I just want to play this song - for something to think about... Well, plus I love music as a "communicator". (But! This is NOT "science"! Just an old video.)

I was actually waiting for our science geek to give me the facts here, and then... once I knew we wouldn't BLOW the fuck up or spin into obscurity out of control... cool. I was "down" with it.

The "religious" part of this equation FREAKS ME THE HELL OUT!

However, I happen to LOVE both Astrololgy AND Astronomy! I can tell you for a FACT, that there is effect for every single "SECOND" of changed allignment" out there. Plus, I've had experiences that would make folk's hair stand up straight on their heads if I shared them... they simply would NOT believe me.

There IS a plane of existence that we do not [fully] understand. I'm NOT into organized religion and actually that thought of Armageddon is NUTS to me. But, I know what I know... for I am an OLD SOUL! Just the way it is. (And I don't need to explain or justify it to ANYONE.)

STILL, hate to see folks fighting here over "our own DEMISE". Kinda of funny, if you really "think about it, yes"?

Enjoy an old video/song and MY sense of "humor"? K?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rh6yhBJ34"]YouTube- Peter Schilling Major Tom coming home[/ame]

LOVE THIS STUFF!

Count down, ya'll!!!

WILDCAT

[WILDCAT]

I should explain a bit more...

When you throw a stone into a pond, the ripple effect moves on and on...

Out in space, when anything COLLIDES, we FEEL IT!
__

If you are in the woods and close your eyes... you can FEEL the tree before you reach it - for it has it's own aura.

Here, personally: I can feel a change in energy, and walk downstairs and just happen to see twenty deer in my yard.

Well, some might say... "just a wild coincidence"! But, then.. why do some of us "FEEL IT"?

I can tell you honesty, that I feel when deer are right outside my cabin.
___

Anyway, that is not even my most important concern! (Like, if you believe me or not...) What matters to me, IS... ???

LOVE

[WILDCAT]

My POINT IS...

I will NOT carry a cup of HOT tea that day... I will respect the laws of gravity - just in case.


Peace and love...

(Oh, and by the way... we will all live in a "lighter" way - take that as you may, but it IS the reality. SMILE.)

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by WILDCAT

Out in space, when anything COLLIDES, we FEEL IT!

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Can you explain what it is you're saying here? When comet Schumaker-Levy slammed into Jupiter 14 years ago what did we feel on Earth? We certainly *detected* the collision because, as it happened, someone noticed the comet being torn apart by Jupiter's tidal forces *before* the comet hit the planet. But I can't imagine what we felt here.

Things collide in the solar system all the time and that's just the solar system. I'm genuinely confused so could you help dispel that by explaining what you mean? Thanks.

Cheers
Aj

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Can you explain what it is you're saying here? When comet Schumaker-Levy slammed into Jupiter 14 years ago what did we feel on Earth? We certainly *detected* the collision because, as it happened, someone noticed the comet being torn apart by Jupiter's tidal forces *before* the comet hit the planet. But I can't imagine what we felt here.

Things collide in the solar system all the time and that's just the solar system. I'm genuinely confused so could you help dispel that by explaining what you mean? Thanks.

Cheers
Aj

I'll try my best to explain my reality, at this time - which is very open for the most part - but, I do "pick" and choose. However, it is hard to put into the English language or words at times, for it is not hard concrete factual knowledge as a scientist such as yourself would be able to better relate to and then someone such as myself cannot write properly to try and transfer any of my thoughts and feelings over to your way of writing/thinking and what you believe.

I'm considering that anyway, but I will try... in very simplistic terms. (Of course - for me!)

I'm glad that you brought up the comment from that year. Several friends of mine who are "sensitive" (as in picking up, at times, even the very smallest altering of shifts or changes of any kind - like being in a woods, not hearing anything, but feeling a sense of movement, and then seeing an animal that was not there in that spot to start with). Heck, we can call it women's intuition here! (Unless you're a man, then call it something else!! Don't want to exclude.)

BUT, the exact moment of that "impact" back that year, and none of us realized it, until we spoke of it later, all at different or varying increments in [later] time: That I, at that time... who did not take afternoon naps, nor did my friends... all at (let's say) the impact what around 3:30PM or so - and whatever precise moment it was) were like friggin' robbots and got overwhelmingly exhausted and had to go and lie down. All of us had forgotten about the comet coming and whatever collision expectations that day - we didn't think too much of it. Little by little we just all discussed this, one would and then another said they had a similar reaction and went to bed, etc...

Sure, someone could argue it is just a coincidence. Someone could say we subconsiously knew of it at a precise time and thus we created our own reality response to it. I can only tell you from honest experience, that I have never been so instantly pooped out. Whatever I was doing at that time (out in the yard I think), I had to go directly to bed and fell immediately asleep. I later saw the time of collision on the news and still did not fully correlate that with what happened to me. Not until I shared with others further along in time... a pattern emerged. That's all.

I'm not going to argue about it, it just keeps my mind open to things. I'm happy with that. And I've had other experiences, like when folks I knew passed away, I felt it - sometimes they were not even sick and it was very sudden and unexpected... but, some of this is personal so I don't feel like going into details at this point right here and now. And I've just recently felt two losses - so quite honestly I'm not up for it here at this time.
__

Let me ask you AJ, when it's said that a beam of light goes to infinity, do you believe that? I kinda "don't", as the battery from a flashlight, "think?" (small beam example) only has so much power, but some would say the different levels of light never end, so still go to points of where we cannot see anymore or recognize with our naked eye, (or some such effect?). I've heard something about a candle light in a room...(?) Like the immediate flame - sure we see quite clearly, and then an outer one (ring/glow - uh huh), and then... well, really the whole room does have light affect, different levels of it to it's darkest corners.

I'd love your own explanation or opinion on this - as I have mixed feelings (which I'm aware does seem somewhat contradictory with some of my thoughts and opinions, and I said I am "selective"). Smile...

And then if you sit across the room and blow, eventually you will see a slight flicker of that flame. Hence, I do feel every movement impacts things around it. Scientifically, I feel we only know at any given time in history what we were capable of finding out, to the adding to the discoveries - which is fascinating and amazing in it's own right, but... I also believe there are other abilities or things we don't yet understand - some that even we hold as human beings, maybe with our senses, maybe if one believes in the chakras and their function on a certain spiritual plane or even healing levels, whatever... (?)

I do not keep religion and my beliefs with my personal experiences providing some kind of effectual, if not personal proof to me at this time - on the same page - AT ALL. However, I am quite fine with incorporating scientific proof with certain things though, I can easily connect them. Again, religion - NO.

And by the way "fortune teller" is SO out dated and not having to do with mediumship in history at this time. I don't even care for the word psychic for it implies someone has this specific power, but rather I am comfortable with we all have the ability to "receive" from the spiritual plane (or some "source", however one feels/believe or has experienced it, if they have?) from a mulitude of factors - including the opening of the chakras (as one example).

I do love the tradition of the ancient eastern philosophies as well. Which incorporate seasonal changes, have the meridians which are amazingly accurate to their exact points of location, on and on... some believe this, some do not. That's not religion though, yet something not always easily proved scientifically. Some scientists who have studied this affect with accupunture treatment, believe and some do not. (I saw a show recently on the History or a PBS channel regarding this, as well as herbal remedies and such.)

I think the times are changing, more towards a mixed acceptance of the old knowledge with the new forthcoming - whatever that may be.

Heck, at one time folks know that when the Columbus ship got further and further away from shore, and much SMALLER, people then were afaid that he was going to fall off a flat earth.

If a meteor strikes the Atantic ocean, the ripple affect will no doubt come crashing inland. We know this. Why wouldn't that be different on any collision or ripple energy affect no matter where it is? Outside the gravity force, thus not susceptible for us - says who? I have my opinion on it... And again, I may choose to not walk with a full cup of hot tea that day, in case gravity is slightly fucked up or altered for me (?), but that is my only concern, really. And I do care what the scientists know. And I do believe the energy shift could very possibly be a positive one for mankind. (We're due anyway!)
__

But, if the things happened in the bible as they did, it surely would be happening now, when needed. A GOD could/would not be so calculating and manipulative and ugly - when you think of certain disasters and murders and such. Plus, I don't have sticks turning into snakes in my yard here either. One loaf of bread does not last me forever. I have had physical objects move though, when I asked for this in my mind. (I did NOT feel alone at that time here somehow, thus why I asked... quietly.)

But, symbolically I suppose some folks could get some benefit out of some religious words of wisdom. But, the judgment part of christianity (as one example) kills it for me. For example, queers will burn in hell. That is nearly hysterical to me in humor, if it wasn't for how dangerous these minds are.

BUT, I'm talking about movement of things in space (on land, in space), something quite different. Allignments... Things shifting. Things impacting each other for it. Sure I believe we feel that. They surely are real - to me and my way of thinking at this time. Just on this planet alone... things are constantly shifting. As yes, lots of impacts out in space too.

And sure folks have felt something OFF before opening their apartment to find they have been robbed and their place is perhaps torn apart. Maybe we have gone to a family members house at night and walked in and FELT the furniture was not where it usually is... before turning on the lights. Sure I slammed on my breaks three times in a row, seeing this huge BUCK in front of me at night on a back dark road, and it wasn't there... then after thinking I was sleepy crazy or something, and needed to turn the radio down and pay more attention, the deer was there on the next turn. Not "a deer", but the EXACT picture I saw in my mind. ? Go figure... Yes, I left my grandmother's house and saw her with blood pooring down her face out of her nose and thought I was a morbid fucked up shit (post head bump way back), and then my mother called me the next day to say that my grandmother had been taken to the hospital for her nose would not stop bleeding.

And these are just some "baby" stories. I've had some that really defy logic, honestly. So, I am "open" to what I don't know sometimes for certain, yes! Especially, with regards to our own sensiblities and sensitivities.

But, I will never be a "follower". That is what matters to me right now. And I DO loathe organized religion. I think what I want. And folks can follow religion if they want or need - just stay off of my life and lifestyle, which is a problem for me, 'cause their beliefs do not allow for that. Many are so far from unconditional. Hypocrites in fact.

And no, it is not the END OF THE WORLD on that date. Humbug, I say to that!! Thanks for your postings. Can it be a nice aid in the shifting of energies towards something more positive than we have now? Sure. Some say we do create our own realities. Perhaps there will be an outnumber of folks, not feelin' the Amageddon "thang", and that will help in the long run with the fanaticism. It is stressful to me at times, that folks have to come up with a reason like biblically what is said for their their very own existence. I wouldn't mind things becoming a little bit more spiritual than religious, personally.

Freud referred to religion as being neurotic if I'm not mistaken. Just sayin'... like a psychological crutch.

OK. On first cup of tea here still, hope this makes any sense regarding what you asked of me AJ.

Cheers!

Wildcat

[dreadgeek]

It's 21 December 2012. No rogue planets crashing into the Earth. No gigantic solar storms knocking the planet on its axis. No gigantic solar flares knocking out all electronics on the planet. No polar shifts. And another prophecy of "we're all gonna die! The wisdom of the ancients tells us so!" goes into the dustbin of ludicrous history.

[Girl_On_Fire]

I had heard of December 21st, 2012 since I was a very young child. I always had it in the back of my mind. I never really bought into the whole "we're all gonna die" mentality but since I'm open-minded, I believed anything was possible. Since we're all still here, I can only hope that the changes that this date has ushered in have come quietly but will improve our lives for the better. I, myself, am filled with great hope.

[Ginger]

I was thinking about this.

12/12/12 is the furthest logical extension of a certain pattern finally made possible in this century: 1/1/1, 2/2/2/ 3/3/3, etc.

Maybe the Mayans just meant, it's the end of that pattern.

But then I heard, they didn't have the same numerical system for years. 12/12/12 is actually represented with some other numerical symbols i their system.

So then I thought, well maybe it's the furthest logical extension in whatever system they do have.

But I don't know have enough information to check that out.

And then I started thinking, maybe it's the "end" in a more subtle way.

Maybe something happened on 12/12/12 that set into motion, a series of events that will culminate in the end of the world.

But if you look at it that way, the "end" started as soon as the earth "began," because the thing that set it into motion was itself set into motion by something before that—

so the end has always been inevitable, according to that logic.

What a cheery thought.